THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Ritajanice]

No, not in a literal sense anyway.

How do you think Jesus was conceived then?

Well, I wouldn't put it that way but I know what you mean. :)

Ok, thanks.

How do you think our spirit is reborn? @CadyandZoe ?

We are Born Again of imperishable seed are we not?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Would you say that as Jesus grew in Spirit knowledge from his Father, that’s how he represented his Father, as he was in direct communion with his Spirit?

Yes, that is a good possibility. Jesus often spoke about how he did nothing on his own initiative. He did what the father told him and taught him. John 5:30, 8:28, 8:42, 10:18, 12:49, 14:10

Blessings Sister.

 

[CadyandZoe]

How do you think Jesus was conceived then?

Ok, thanks.

How do you think our spirit is reborn? @CadyandZoe ?

We are Born Again of imperishable seed are we not?

Yes. That's right. I see what you mean.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes. That's right. I see what you mean.

I love reading your posts, certainly resonate with my spirit..God Blesss.

 

[JLB]

I deny the teaching concerning a supposed "godhead" consisting of three persons.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;…
Genesis 1:26

 

[JLB]

I deny that the son, rather than the Father created the world. The scriptures do not teach these things.

The scriptures teach that the Son created all things.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 1:1-3



You can deny the truth of the scriptures but they will not change.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

None of my answers will EVER support the trinity in any way because the trinity is inherently contradictory.

Yes, I know this is your view. Okay then, that's it. I'm not going to go back and forth with my attempt to dissolve that apparent contradiction - keep it. This particular debate always ends in futility. But let's not get emotionally upset about it.
Have a Merry Christmas
and a Happy New Year!

 

[CadyandZoe]

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

I agree that all three are united. But what does it mean when we say, "these three are one"? They are "one" in that their testimonies align. All three testify to the truth, and they are in complete agreement.

John does not suggest that they are ontologically the same.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;…
Genesis 1:26

When did God say this, and what was the occasion?

God said this on the sixth day of creation, just after he created the animals. Therefore, it is most likely that God was speaking to the animals concerning what he was about to do.

God was about to create a creature—man—who would be God-like in some aspects and animal-like in others. And this is the case. Human beings have animal-like biology and desires; however, animals are unable to make and appreciate moral choices. In contrast, humans possess God-like qualities as they can understand right from wrong and make moral decisions. We are indeed both God-like and animal-like.

 

[David in NJ]

It means he is invisible but God is.

Correct on the first sentence.

What about the three verse that are in BOLD?

What are those sentences/verses saying to us?

Paul did not intend to claim that Jesus is the agent of creation. Your translation claims that Jesus created all things, contradicting John's correctly stated claim that the Father is the agent of creation. John 1:3

The NET Bible translation is closer to what Paul meant to say. Speaking about the preeminence of Jesus, he says

Colossians 1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.

The Apostle asserts that Jesus is preeminent because the Father created all things "in him," which means that Jesus is set to inherit everything. He explains that creation was made "through him," highlighting Jesus' role as the mediator between God and humanity. Additionally, the creation was made "for him," indicating that he will be the central reason and focus of all creation.

In short, Paul was not identifying the agent of creation; he was identifying the reason, purpose and aim of creation.


Paul declares that Jesus is the "εἰκὼν" [image] of God, indicating that Jesus represents God in a similar way that an image on a coin represents the king who minted it.

Matthew 22:19-21 Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax.” And they brought Him a denarius. And He *said to them, “Whose likeness [εἰκὼν] and inscription is this?” They *said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He *said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

Just as Jesus says that the image on the coin is a likeness of Caesar; Paul declares that Jesus, a human being, is the likeness of God the Father. Jesus is the exact likeness of God in his character, values, motives, and commitments.

In short, Paul was not identifying the agent of creation

Your statement above in BOLD is incorrect and will mislead people who want to know the True Living God

The impetus of false doctrine is to un-deify the only Yaweh YAHshua HaMashiach - the Lord Jesus Christ

Yaweh YAHshua is not a 'purpose' - HE is the Creator with HIS Father and the Holy Spirit

All Three, Father/Word/Holy Spirit were involved in Creation = TOGETHER as ONE/Echad
In the beginning Elohim/Plural created the heavens and the earth.
ow the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep.
And the Spirit of Elohim/Plural was hovering over the surface of the waters.
And Elohim/Plural Said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

We are only SAVED thru One PERSON of the FATHER = HIS only begotten SON
No one can be saved by praying to a 'jehovah'
@CadyandZoe @David in NJ @Wrangler @Aunty Jane can only be SAVED by the Name of Jesus Christ
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself = ALWAYS = for THEY are ONE

 

[Wrangler]

I'm not going to go back and forth with my attempt to dissolve that apparent contradiction

That's good. As a trinitarian, what do you make of the absence of the trinity (concept, not just word) and no verse teaching why believe in the trinity is important?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The scriptures teach that the Son created all things.

Your translation, produced by Trinitarians, says it.

You can deny the truth of the scriptures but they will not change.

On the contrary, I am defending the truth of the scriptures against the council of Nicaea, which attempted to obey Emperor Constantine's command to syncretize a religion that would appeal to everyone in his kingdom. As we know and as we can see today, every effort to make Christianity more "seeker-friendly", including the Council of Nidaea, allows error to creep into the Gospel.

The idea that Jesus is the second person of a God-head is false teaching, which came from that Council.

 

[APAK]

You guys (@APAK, @Matthias also ) never answer these questions: Jesus was given His glory back after His mission, the glory He possessed before the foundation of the world existed! ( John 17:5)
> So what does that mean? What glory? What status ... an angel?

This glory that Jesus had and regained was ALL AUTHORITY in Heaven and on Earth!
Here's the final question:
Wouldn't it require omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence to have all authority ( power) in heaven and on earth??? Angels could not do this nor could the Father create someone else with equal powers and abilities as He has.
Chew on that for awhile.

You know this is not the first time Ronald you have accused me, and some others of not explaining to you and others questions where you have not, or ignored. I have in detail at times and then in a quick more abbreviated way. In fact I would say I'm only of the few on this site that actually does explain and answer posts, even of yours, if it's worthwhile of course.

See this link below for John 17...I answered it on Sunday on this thread as I posted to Wrangler.

THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

Honestly, I don't understand why everyone is in such an uproar about it. We clearly cannot comprehend many things about our Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit b I get the non-comprehending thing, but it does not hurt to get Christians together and thinking about it and talking about it. And I...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Wrangler]

See this link below for John 17...I answered it on Sunday on this thread as I posted to Wrangler.

Despite this, @RedFan continued with the claim that John 17:5 proves the trinity.

 

[Grailhunter]

When you think about it , the seed of Jesus has always been in the mouth of God ,was it not?

Do you believe Jesus was conceived by Gods seed?

Plus the Holy Spirit is a seed...how many seeds of the Holy Spirit does God send out of his mouth daily and brings new birth to his chosen and predestined children.?

Can I join this conversaion?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your statement above in BOLD is incorrect and will mislead people who want to know the True Living God

It depends on whether my statement is true or not. I believe it will help promote the truth and keep people from danger.

The impetus of false doctrine is to un-deify the only Yaweh YAHshua HaMashiach - the Lord Jesus Christ

Trinitarians make this case. But this doctrine contradicts what the New Testament clearly teaches. Jesus was born; Jesus is a man; Jesus ate and drank; he grew up; he matured in wisdom; he walked; he wasn't everywhere; he was captured by a Roman Army; and he died on a cross. None of these are attributes of deity.

Is Jesus the Lord? Yes. Is Jesus the Christ, the messiah? Yes. Is Jesus King of Israel? Yes. Is Jesus worthy of our worship, admiration, devotion and obedience? Yes. Is he the unique, one-of-a-kind son of God? Yes. Does he sit at the right had of the Father? Yes. Does Jesus always obey the father, and teach what the father says? Yes.

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Here the Apostle is not talking metaphysics. The fulness [grk. plaroma] refers to the full compliment of all those whom God will save. The translation should read "people" rather than "things" because people are reconciled not things.

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Here, the Apostle speaks about the power and effectiveness of God's word, i.e. his promises. It was God's promise of a coming messiah that became flesh in the personhood of Jesus Christ.

God the Father always deifies His Son with Himself
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The term begotten son is understood from 2 Samuel 7, where God talks about the Davidic Covenant, and Psalm 2, where David talks about the coronation of his son to become a son to God. All of the kings of Israel were sons to God, but David knew that there would come a unique, one-of-a-kind son who would perfectly represent God and rule over the throne of David forever.

 

[Scott Downey]

The scriptures teach that the Son created all things.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 1:1-3



You can deny the truth of the scriptures but they will not change.

People ignore scripture when it does not agree with what they think as true.

Trinity is just one example.
Peter warned that when they begin to twist scripture, they will also twist the other scriptures.

Untaught means not taught by God but by men.

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[David in NJ]

It depends on whether my statement is true or not. I believe it will help promote the truth and keep people from danger.

Trinitarians make this case. But this doctrine contradicts what the New Testament clearly teaches. Jesus was born; Jesus is a man; Jesus ate and drank; he grew up; he matured in wisdom; he walked; he wasn't everywhere; he was captured by a Roman Army; and he died on a cross. None of these are attributes of deity.

Is Jesus the Lord? Yes. Is Jesus the Christ, the messiah? Yes. Is Jesus King of Israel? Yes. Is Jesus worthy of our worship, admiration, devotion and obedience? Yes. Is he the unique, one-of-a-kind son of God? Yes. Does he sit at the right had of the Father? Yes. Does Jesus always obey the father, and teach what the father says? Yes.


Here the Apostle is not talking metaphysics. The fulness [grk. plaroma] refers to the full compliment of all those whom God will save. The translation should read "people" rather than "things" because people are reconciled not things.

Here, the Apostle speaks about the power and effectiveness of God's word, i.e. his promises. It was God's promise of a coming messiah that became flesh in the personhood of Jesus Christ.

The term begotten son is understood from 2 Samuel 7, where God talks about the Davidic Covenant, and Psalm 2, where David talks about the coronation of his son to become a son to God. All of the kings of Israel were sons to God, but David knew that there would come a unique, one-of-a-kind son who would perfectly represent God and rule over the throne of David forever.

SEE @CadyandZoe

Each and every response you have to TRUTH is from the spirit of error that wants you to devalue the FATHER's Will.

Fallen human logic is why the pharisees wanted the SAVIOR to be killed = same with all false doctrines(jw) today

You can kill off TRUTH in your heart by rejecting it or making it VOID thru unbelief.

There is only One Voice you need to listen to = HIS Voice

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Anyone who devalues the SON devalues the FATHER, even to the point of calling God a liar - which is rampant on here!

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus came from the seed of God, a perfect seed inside a virgin, who could only conceive that seed of God, as she was untouched or defiled by man..

The seed came from the Holy , Pure Living God ...Jesus was that perfect seed who grew in the womb of Mary, who went on to be the Messiah..who spread the good news all about his Father.

Oh to be perfected in that Living seed that’s inside of me..just my thoughts.

Short commentary.

What is the seed in Matthew 13:19?
Now Jesus shows that the seeds represent the "word of the kingdom" or His teaching about the kingdom of heaven. Different soils represent people with different levels of interest. Seeds falls onto the hard-packed earth represent those who do not understand spiritual teaching..

 

[Wrangler]

attempt to dissolve that apparent contradiction

BTW, I’m glad that you, at least, acknowledge it as an apparent contradiction. Thanks for that!

 

[amigo de christo]

SEE @CadyandZoe

Each and every response you have to TRUTH is from the spirit of error that wants you to devalue the FATHER's Will.

Fallen human logic is why the pharisees wanted the SAVIOR to be killed = same with all false doctrines(jw) today

You can kill off TRUTH in your heart by rejecting it or making it VOID thru unbelief.

There is only One Voice you need to listen to = HIS Voice

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Anyone who devalues the SON devalues the FATHER, even to the point of calling God a liar - which is rampant on here!

men will do and believe as men will do and believe .
but a lamb beleives ONLY that WHICH IS OF GOD .