THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[face2face]

thats ok.

like to poster said, all those resources and you still get it wrong.

sad.

Those resources certainly reveal a troubling history regarding the development of the Trinity. I assume you haven't inquired deeply enough to recognize the deception.

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

I agree in part. Like death being sleep. But disagree with you on what the passage actually means.
Christ did preach to the spirits in prison, as you say, in bondage to sin, and He did it in Noah's day, through the Spirit of Christ in Noah. Just as Christ preached through all the prophets through His Spirit.

The fallen angers were not 'spirits' in Noahs day for they left their spiritual domain and took on flesh - Jude

Why do you ask that immediately after the verse that I quoted, weren't you paying attention?! Here it is again - 1 Corinthians 8:6 (ESV):

(6) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

Same Lord that appeared to Moses?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Context is king here Iforrest

The Jews had just claimed that Abraham was their father (vs. 39), and in response, Christ affirms His preeminence in God's divine plan by stating, "before Abraham was, I am." He did not say "before Abraham was, I was," as is often misinterpreted. Like modern-day Trinitarians, the Jews misunderstood Jesus’ statement. He was not claiming to be literally older than Abraham in years. This is clarified by His earlier statement: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (vs. 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Gal. 3:8), "saw" Christ’s day through the eyes of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times" (1 Peter 1:20). He was established in God's divine plan, but not physically present. Similarly, in God’s purpose, He was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8), but He was not literally crucified until the time of Pilate.

If you approach the text with the eye of faith, I'm confident you'll see what the Lord is doing here. This is another instance where dogma is influencing your interpretation.

F2F

once again

The language does not allow your twist of Jesus words.

He said, literally, before abraham, I am.

Only God can make this claim.. (unless he was an angel created before Abraham)

Jesus said Before abraham was (In the greek genomi - to become, to take place. To be formed, to come to exist.)

it does not say or man anything about how great he was.

Then Jesus said, I am (in the greek ego - I, Eimi - to be, to exist)

again, he could have just said, eimi, (I exist) but he said ego eimi,

either way. Your attempt to twist fails in the greek.

 

[face2face]

once again

The language does not allow your twist of Jesus words.

He said, literally, before abraham, I am.

Only God can make this claim.. (unless he was an angel created before Abraham)

Jesus said Before abraham was (In the greek genomi - to become, to take place. To be formed, to come to exist.)

it does not say or man anything about how great he was.

Then Jesus said, I am (in the greek ego - I, Eimi - to be, to exist)

again, he could have just said, eimi, (I exist) but he said ego eimi,

You see what you want to see and ignore the context. Be paitent and you can be revealed its truth.
F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is astonishing – I can't fathom how you could even write such things.

Thats because your mind is closed, you have determined that you are right, and we are wrong no matter what

It reveals you know not the Holiness or Righteousness of God.

F2F

Actually I do. I actually know the love of God. No greater love has anyone than he give his life.

Maybe one day you will meet that God (actually you will)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those resources certainly reveal a troubling history regarding the development of the Trinity. I assume you haven't inquired deeply enough to recognize the deception.

F2F

I am not worried about history.

The jews tried to use history. and they crucified their messiah

the largest church in Christianity tries to use history. and they are just as bad

 

[amigo de christo]

Thats because your mind is closed, you have determined that you are right, and we are wrong no matter what

Actually I do. I actually know the love of God. No greater love has anyone than he give his life.

Maybe one day you will meet that God (actually you will)

lets finish that last sentence . This is a general reminder .
You wrote
Maybe one day you will meet that GOD , one day all will but none wants to be a goat on that day .
JESUS has the sheep my friend and they shall forever rejoice with the LORD
but the goats will wail on HIS DAY .

 

[Wrangler]

This needs to be unpacked further.

Points 1-3 make sense, its the last paragraph I need help with.

F2F

Do you refer to dualism or the consequences of Jesus not being the first fruit?

 

[JLB]

I find that completely illogical for many reasons….how is God an angel of himself?

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.

Angel‘s are messenger. That is what the Hebrew word malak mean; messenger

Angel’s are referred to as sons of God.

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.


What do messengers bring?

They bring a word (Logos) or message from another.

The Angel of the LORD would then be The Word of God.



What are Angels?

Angels are spirits.

The Angel of the LORD would then be the Spirit of the Lord.

Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Corinthians 3:17


Do you abide under His wings; does He cover you with His feathers?

He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
Psalms 91:4

 

[JLB]

Horrible reading comprehension on display.



Found nowhere in Scripture. Pure eisegesis.

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
  
  
  Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

The scripture plainly says The Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses.

Moses was afraid to look upon God.



The only two people in this passage of scripture is Moses and the Angel of the LORD.

 

[Behold]

@Wrangler ..yes, Jesus was baptised with the divine nature,

Jesus was baptized "with the Spirit".. not "in the Spirit".

See, Jesus is God's Son.....and God is "A Spirit"... so, Jesus is born OF The Holy Spirit, and has Him, already..

This is why the NT verse says,,,,<<<"Jesus is THAT Spirit">.., and that is why Jesus SENT the Holy Spirit down..., in Acts 2.

This is why the verse says the Spirit "Like a Dove" Descended UPON Him........"Upon".. = Baptized WITH....the Spirit., not "IN".

Whereas the unbeliever, does not have the Holy /Spirit, until God, who is "A Spirit"... births then by the Holy Spirit, into Himself, as "one with God" "in Christ".

 

[face2face]

Do you refer to dualism or the consequences of Jesus not being the first fruit?

If Jesus were God, it means his resurrection is NOT the proof, our guarantee of like to follow, we have no mediator and we still owe the wages of our sin.

I believe this needs Scriptural support to demonstrate the importance of Christ being truly flesh and blood, who genuinely required redemption from death.

I'm trying to get to the core issue of why Jesus being God cannot be a propiatation for our sins. I'm trying to come at this from a Trinatarian mindset (not easy).

10:4 For the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins. 10:5 So when he came into the world, he said, “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me. 10:6 “Whole burnt offerings and sin-offerings you took no delight in. 10:7 “Then I said, ‘Here I am: I have come—it is written of me in the scroll of the book—to do your will, O God.’ Heb 10:4–7.

The power in the sacrifice was the example of an obediant life as we know, the life is in the blood and it was offered upon the Christ-alter.

So the issue Wrangler is this - God required Jesus to overcome Sins Flesh through obedience so he raised up a son in that weak nature to show how it could be righteously taken away (nailed to the cross)...including the Law which convince men of sins (and cursed Christ!)

If Jesus is God (dualism) that victory is not a real death nor is it real obedience, which means it cannot provide forgiveness of sins (or mediate).

I might be struggling a little to piece that together and feel free to add...

F2F

 

[JLB]

You must learn to read the Word in Context and don't force your notions upon it! You end up doing precisely what Christs opponents were doing.

Christ's reference to Abraham is meant to highlight his pre-eminence, not his pre-existence. The Jews had claimed Abraham as their father (verse 39), and in response, Christ affirms his greater role in God's divine plan by stating, "before Abraham was, I am." He did not say, "before Abraham was, I was," as is often misinterpreted. Like modern-day Trinitarians, the Jews misunderstood Jesus. He was not claiming to be literally older than Abraham. This is clarified by his earlier statement, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (verse 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Gal. 3:8), "saw" the day of Christ through the lens of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times" (1 Peter 1:20). He existed in God's eternal plan but had not yet been revealed. Similarly, Christ was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8), but his actual crucifixion occurred during the time of Pilate.

Maybe you are not aware that everyone in the Old Testament whereby the LORD appeared to them was seeing the Son not God the Father.


No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


It was Jesus Christ the Son who appeared to Abraham and made covenant with him.


Words of Christ in red:


“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8

 

[face2face]

Maybe you are not aware that everyone in the Old Testament whereby the LORD appeared to them was seeing the Son not God the Father.

Do you have a back story for this statement? Maybe a NT writer quoting an OT passage providing this insight.
F2F

 

[Scott Downey]

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
  
  
  Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

The scripture plainly says The Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses.

Moses was afraid to look upon God.



The only two people in this passage of scripture is Moses and the Angel of the LORD.

Yes, agree. God made appearances to several people in the OT, including Abraham.
Man cannot see the face of God and live, He is a like a burning fire, but he shows Himself as Christ to us in our mortal state.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Tim 6​

The Good Confession​

11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

**********************************************
Now this below is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ
In the scriptures, people have had visions of God, but they don't actually see him in His Full Glory.
*********************************************
13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only [e]Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

 

[Scott Downey]

Is Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
YES HE IS

Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Scott Downey]

He who is the blessed and only [e]Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Hence Christ is God, a member of the Godhead, and in whom dwells the fullness of God

 

[Nancy]

@Aunty Jane and @Nancy and @Ritajanice
Hello David,

In the Light of the words of JESUS in His Gospel does anything 'jump out' at you on this passage???

Deuteronomy 5:6-7
I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

Hello David, not quite sure what you are looking for here. I believe in the Trinity and that Jesus was God Himself with flesh when He came, and He still is. That what you were looking for?

 

[Ritajanice]

It’s good to see you posting @Nancy .

As you don’t seem to post much these days I’ve noticed...not compared to when I first joined the forum that’s for sure,x