Well it is a good discussion as it has a lot of interest.
THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
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Here is a scripture exposing this,
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
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About the Spirit and thoughts. Only God knows all the thoughts of His own SELF. Not angels, not men, except if they be revealed, then we know them. And who you think God is as God knows His own thoughts.
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1 Cor 2
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Amen!..Plus how can Jesus be God if....
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. New Living Translation “However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. English Standard Version “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. Berean Standard Bible No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father |
Certainly. Jesus stated & implied that, several times. John 17:5; John 8:58; John 3:13; etc.
But Jesus existing before he came to Earth, in no way equates to him being God.
Compare these of God and of Christ, they are exposing a truth about their natures.
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
You do not believe God was manifested in the flesh?
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Jesus and the Father and the Spirit are all of one, but they are also unique persons.
You do not believe God was manifested in the flesh?
Reasonable people can discuss anything, amicably.
To those who are posting on this thread, thank you!
And to the administration & moderators, thank you, too.
To those who are posting on this thread, thank you!
And to the administration & moderators, thank you, too.
Grailhunter
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The topic….Yeshua’s preexistence.
I propose that there is a difference between preexistence and awareness.
A lot of people believe in the preexistence of Yeshua and think they see evidence of the activity of the Son of God in the Old Testament. But this is more imaginative interpretations. And really there in nothing clear and precise about Yeshua doing anything in the Old Testament.
Actually Yahweh makes it clear in the Old Testament the He is the only God and there is no other. That is clear with no buts about it. But could Yeshua be aware of time immemorial?
This explanation comes from something I read about Albert Einstein.
So this explanation starts with us standing on an underground Subway Platform. The train tracks are in front of us. All of this is a representation of time, physical and spiritual.
Now as we stand there, a Subway Train is passing by. The cars that have passed by represent the past….the cars that are coming towards us are the future…and the car that is in front of us is the present.
Now as we stand there Yeshua stroll up and greets us. He is with us in the present. He grins and points at the Subway Train and says, “I am there.”
We look, and as the cars pass we see Yeshua, Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit in the windows of every car, past, present, and future. Illustrating that the Trinity exists fully in the present, but to some degree or extent the Trinity exists in time past and future. This is the natural reality of the Gods and time…so…
Yeshua was born the real Son of God and as such when He was conceived of God, He then perceived time and existed in time, just as Yahweh and the Holy Spirit do.
So to some degree Yeshua was present in the Old Testament but not to the extent that He would be performing miracles or be referenced by name in the Old Testament scriptures. In other words, there is no scriptures in the Old Testament about Yahweh talking to His Son or telling His Son to do something, or that He even had a Son that was a God. Or that Yeshua actually physically did anything in the Old Testament.
Why do you ask that immediately after the verse that I quoted; weren't you paying attention?! Here it is again - 1 Corinthians 8:6 (ESV):
(6) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
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Eternally Grateful
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Eternally Grateful
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some people we just need to let talk. No need to respond when they hurt themselves. just let them keep talking
Eternally Grateful
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I have been growing my logo library for years also.It was my Logos library where I found the greek words and definitions which proved your idea that Jesus was telling the Jews he was greater than Abraham, not older. and totally destroyed it.
Eternally Grateful
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But your still wrong.
Remember, You said you are at war with this and you were going to stand up for what you thought was truth no matter what.
Logos cannot help you. Because your closed minded. logos can only help you if you open your mind..
Logos has sources from all different denominations. You can find anti trinity sources. and pro trinity sources.
Just because you have logos does not mean you will get it right..
face2face
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face2face
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Eternally Grateful
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No
if he never had the ability to sin, the fact that he had no sin would be a given..And he could not be tempted.
If your going to ask a trinitarian a question. Please ask one of us. Please do not ask someone who shows over and over he does nto even understand what we believe
Eternally Grateful
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The Great Mystery
14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and [h]ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the [i]mystery of godliness:God[j] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
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Cleary stated Christ is God manifested in the flesh.
He is the image of the invisible God.
Why some people cannot accept this great mystery, good question ....
But they completely reject any idea of God being made into a man, by God, which is what God manifested in the flesh means.
For them it does not compute, but there it is written. And it agrees with so many other scriptures, God born as a man to redeem mankind to God.
People don't have to understand everything, but they can still believe it.
Eternally Grateful
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The son, left behind his attributes. and entered the human body bore By Mary, He needed to be cared for like any baby. And he had to grow in grace and truth without the abilities he left behind. To prove once and for all. God so loved the world. He would give his only son to die. so those who believe may be saved.
Eternally Grateful
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face2face
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This needs to be unpacked further.
Points 1-3 make sense, its the last paragraph I need help with.
F2F
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