The social gospel?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Actually its heresy that would try to put the law back on a Christian, when the Christian is "not under the Law, but Under Grace".
Its heresy to try to bring the Law back into dominion over a born again CHRISTian, who is "IN CHRIST", and there is no law found there, @Episkopos
Notice.....>>>"'Christ is the END of the LAW,", and all the born again are "IN Christ".
No law found there. there is only only... "not under the Law, but under GRACE"., is where the born again exist as "ONE with God".
Notice..."the law came by Moses... but GRACE and TRUTH came by Jesus The Christ"/
A woman is bound to the law as long as her husband lives. Her husband dies...now she is free to be married to another.
The word here is free.
But will the woman take on a good husband...Christ..or play the harlot with every passerby like it says in Ezekiel?
If the woman tries to move forward in life based on her own understanding, she will commit adultery...even as she is free from her old husband.
Rather, the woman needs to GO TO JESUS..seek God, ask, seek and knock...until He visits you and FROM THERE be betrothed.
A woman who has found Christ needs for her husband to die (her old covering) before she is ELIGIBLE to marry again. Then she can take on her new covering...putting on Christ.
But that happens in two steps not one. Paul is speaking about the necessity of the outer man being put down before the inner man can be elevated into the higher walk. First comes death, then life. If you are walking in the power of the flesh and sinning, you need to go to the cross. The sin nature has to die before being joined to He who is Holy.
Otherwise like a lot around here...the cross is just about constant forgiveness every moment of the day for walking in carnality.
More obfuscation. Just admit you don't understand Pauline doctrine. Be honest for once!
So...how can Paul say..."sin revived and I died". Only those who actually understand doctrine can respond without obfuscation.
The heresy is to be lawless and teach lawlessness.
Why does Paul say...sin revived and I died?
Behold
Well-Known Member
A "woman who has found Christ" is not under any Law..., because she is "under Grace"..
Therefore, if this woman, or man, becomes a Christian, after they are married to an unbeliever, then they are free to leave the marriage, unless they want to stay.
OR, if 2 Christians are married, and one is child molester or a wife beater, for example, then she is allowed to stop that with a divorce and remarry, as long as its a Christian.
Teaching that there is no "re-marriage" in the case of a Christian, is absolutely false, if the marriage partner is a certain type.
Its interesting that very religious and very self righteous people, have no GRACE, and do not understand that God does, and God is the author of "forgiveness of all sin", and God is the author of a 2nd Chance, and many more.
its Hyper religious people, who are trying to work their way to heaven, and have no GRACE, that will try to put bondage on Christians, that God does not.
God is a God of mercy and Grace, that is eternal, and He always sees the born again, as "not under the Law" and "In Christ". "made righteous"..
How wonderful! I pray the Spirit will change her through an through to what please Him!
Reminds me of the song, Turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in His beautiful face . . .
Much love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
You're not even able to address all that ive written.
So, maybe you should think about that before you say anything else that proves you can't. @Episkopos
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Many people seek God with all their heart. yet these same people can not come to agreement on many things
How can we determine who is speaking from God. and test our own faith to see if we are listening to God. or to Satan coming as an angel of light. or listening to our flesh
How can we determine who is speaking from God. and test our own faith to see if we are listening to God. or to Satan coming as an angel of light. or listening to our flesh
more obfuscation. Admit you don't understand. Paul said...sin revived and I died. Why does he say that?
You will try various political obfuscations to cover up your ignorance of Pauline doctrine. More dishonesty.
VictoryinJesus
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But it’s the inward man, which in the sight of God of great price ….which overcomes that which is without. I am considering where “they hold the truth in unrighteousness” but even then it’s the Truth of God within which overcomes unrighteousness without. I mean if even death could not hold Him…is it not the Triumph of the inward man of great price …the Spirit of The Son calling Abba Father that breaks the bars of iron and sets the captives free, Triumphant over that which is without and passing away. Where death is swallowed up in Victory. Proverbs 16:6-8 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil. [7] When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. [8] Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.
I get this was concerning women between outward adornments or 1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
I explained this already, in a quite detailed post. 2 in fact.
So, you explain this.. that ive asked you before.. and you've never tried..
Q.) "why is it that The same Salvation through Christ, that saves the believer as born again....... always keeps them saved, no matter how they behave later"..
Behold
Well-Known Member
Ive already explained it. in 2 long and detailed posts...
I can't learn it for you, as that's on you @Episkopos
Johann
Well-Known Member
Understanding Paul’s Statement: “Sin Revived, and I Died”
Paul’s statement, “sin revived and I died,” is found in Romans 7:9 (KJV): "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." This verse is part of a larger passage (Romans 7:7-25) where Paul reflects on the relationship between the law, sin, and the human condition.
Exegesis of Romans 7:9
Greek Text and Analysis
Greek Text (Romans 7:9, NA28):
"ἐγὼ δὲ ἔζων χωρὶς νόμου ποτέ· ἐλθούσης δὲ τῆς ἐντολῆς, ἡ ἁμαρτία ἀνέζησεν, ἐγὼ δὲ ἀπέθανον·"
ἐγὼ (egō): Pronoun, 1st person singular - "I"
ἔζων (ezōn): Verb, imperfect active indicative, 1st person singular - "was living"
χωρὶς (chōris): Preposition - "without"
νόμου (nomou): Noun, genitive singular masculine - "law"
ποτέ (pote): Adverb - "once"
ἐλθούσης (elthousēs): Participle, aorist active genitive singular feminine - "when came"
τῆς ἐντολῆς (tēs entolēs): Noun, genitive singular feminine - "the commandment"
ἡ ἁμαρτία (hē hamartia): Noun, nominative singular feminine - "sin"
ἀνέζησεν (anezēsen): Verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular - "revived"
ἐγὼ (egō): Pronoun, 1st person singular - "I"
ἀπέθανον (apethanon): Verb, aorist active indicative, 1st person singular - "died"
Explanation and Interpretation
Contextual Background
In Romans 7, Paul is addressing the role of the Mosaic Law and its relationship to sin and human nature. He uses his own experience as a case study to explain a broader theological point.
Key Points in Romans 7:9
Living Without the Law:
Paul describes a time when he was "alive without the law." This phrase suggests a period before the law’s impact was fully realized in his life. It might refer to a state of perceived innocence or ignorance before understanding the law’s demands.
Arrival of the Commandment:
"When the commandment came" indicates the moment Paul became aware of the law's requirements. This awareness brought a new understanding of sin.
Sin Revived:
The Greek verb "ἀνέζησεν" (anezēsen) means "revived" or "came to life again." Paul indicates that the commandment made sin come alive in a way that he had not previously experienced. The law, by defining and prohibiting sin, made him acutely aware of his sinful nature.
I Died:
The phrase "I died" reflects Paul’s realization of his own spiritual death due to sin. When the law revealed his sinfulness, he recognized his separation from God and his inability to achieve righteousness on his own. This "death" is metaphorical, signifying the recognition of his spiritual helplessness and guilt before God.
Theological Implications
The Law’s Role in Revealing Sin:
Paul argues that the law is not sinful; rather, it reveals sin. By defining what is sinful, the law exposes the sinful nature and actions of individuals. This leads to a heightened awareness of one’s own sinfulness.
Sin’s Deceptive Power:
The law, although good, becomes an occasion for sin to exploit human weakness. Paul explains that sin uses the law to stir up sinful desires, leading to spiritual death.
Need for Christ:
Paul’s recognition of his own spiritual death under the law underscores the need for Christ. The law reveals the problem of sin, but it cannot provide the solution. The solution is found in Jesus Christ, who offers redemption and new life through His death and resurrection.
Practical Application
Awareness of Sin:
Like Paul, believers must recognize the role of God’s law in revealing sin. This recognition should lead to humility and an acknowledgment of one’s need for a Savior.
Dependence on Christ:
Understanding the insufficiency of the law to save should drive believers to depend fully on Christ for salvation. The gospel offers what the law cannot: forgiveness, grace, and transformation.
Living by the Spirit:
Romans 8, which follows Paul’s discussion in Romans 7, emphasizes living by the Spirit. Believers are called to walk according to the Spirit, who empowers them to live in a way that pleases God, overcoming the power of sin.
Conclusion
Paul’s statement, “sin revived, and I died,” reflects his personal realization of sin’s power and his own spiritual death upon encountering the law’s demands. This experience highlights the law’s role in revealing sin and the need for Christ’s redemptive work. It serves as a reminder of the insufficiency of human effort and the necessity of grace through faith in Jesus Christ for true spiritual life and righteousness.
“But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all
manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment
came, sin revived, and I died” (Rom. 7:8,9).
Up to this point, Paul has been talking about the Law and its effect on us when “we” (v. 4,5,6) were unsaved. Paul’s shift here to
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the pronoun “me” indicates he is about to get to the point and give a
personal testimony concerning his relationship to the Law after he
got saved.
Paul was “alive without the law,” i.e., he got saved and became spiritually alive as all of us did, by grace through faith apart from the deeds
of the law (Rom. 3:20,28). Grace taught him to deny ungodliness and
worldly lusts, and to “live soberly, righteously and godly” in gratitude
to God for saving him (Titus 2:11,12), and he eschewed evil with all
the vigor and enthusiasm of a newly saved child of God.
Then, like all of us, he thought the Law would help him deal with sin
better. But “when the commandment came,” i.e., when he introduced
the Law into his life to try to help him with sin, it had the very opposite
effect. As he puts it, “when the commandment came, sin revived.”
We have seen that the Law goads unbelievers to sin and makes
them see their need of a Savior. But the Law has the same effect in
believers! When we get saved, we receive a new nature from the Lord,
but we do not lose the old sin nature that longs to sin all the more
when it is told not to.
So when Paul placed himself under the Law, the Law continued to do
what it did before we were saved, give motion to sin, and “sin revived.”
Sin fell asleep when Paul was saved by grace, but he inadvertently
revived it with the application of the Law.
As Paul puts it, sin took occasion by the Law. When a public speaker
says, “I’d like to take this occasion to...”, he means he is about to use
the occasion of his address to an audience for some purpose other than
that for which they have gathered. This is sometimes done by actors
receiving an “Oscar” at the Academy Awards, who take advantage of
the tremendous viewership of the ceremony to make a political statement. In our text, Paul did not introduce the Law into his spiritual
life to work “all manner of concupiscence” in him, but the Law took
the occasion to do just that!
When Paul got saved without the law, “sin was dead.” But when
he invited the Law into his life, sin revived and then the tables were
turned. He “died,” i.e., he died the spiritual death that we spoke of earlier, wherein a believer’s Christian experience shrivels up and dies.1
“And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be
unto death” (Rom. 7:10).
Paul knows his readers will be further troubled by his further affirmation that the Law gives occasion to sin, and so he hastens to affirm
that the Law was “ordained to life.” Over and over the Bible declares
that if a man could keep the Law perfectly, God would gladly reward
such a man with eternal life (Lev. 18:5 cf. Luke 10:25-28; Rom. 2:6,7;
10:5). But the words “continueth” and “all” in Galatians 3:10 indicate
that God demands 100% obedience to the Law, 100% of the time! Since
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this is something no unbeliever can attain, the Law became known as
“the ministration of death” (II Cor. 3:7).
But when Paul applied the Law to his life after he was saved, he
learned what we all learn when we follow his example, and that is
that we are no more able to keep the Law perfectly now that we are
saved than when we were lost! He soon found that all his spiritual
vital signs had flat-lined, and he needed to awake out of the sleep of
this “death” (cf. Eph. 5:14).
“For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and
by it slew me” (Rom. 7:11).
Imagine taking a drug that you thought was saving your life, only to
learn that it was killing you instead! Such is the case with the believer
and the Law. He thinks it is helping him, when in truth it is killing
him! This is how sin “deceived” Paul, and how it deceives us all!
“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just,
and good” (Rom. 7:12).
Paul says the Law is “good” in I Timothy 1:8 also, but there he
explains that it is only good “if a man use it lawfully.” Paul then goes
on to explain that “the law is not made for a righteous man,” i.e., for
believers. The only lawful use of the Law is to bring conviction of sin on
those who are “lawless and disobedient,” to drive them to the Savior.
“Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which
is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful” (Rom. 7:13).
Here Paul hastens to add that it was not the Law that slew him, it
was sin working by the Law. Paul knows that men like to find fault
with laws that condemn them. When we are issued a speeding ticket,
it is not because we were going too fast, of course, it is because the
speed limit is set too low! There is nothing wrong with us, it is the law
that is wrong! Here, Paul rushes to explain that he was not saying
there was anything wrong with the Law of Moses.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
How many times do you see the word law in this passage?
If your freed from the law. the wage of sin has been removed.
lol.. Typical pharisee logic.
Your righteous, we are not. thus your saved we are not.
You asked fgor a simple explanation, I gave it, and as usual you were not able to refute it. so I will take that as if I am correct..
That's a political ploy. You never answered at all. Your same lack of understanding permeates all the futility you try teaching.
So...why does Paul say...sin revived and I died? Try a few words. Let people see what you are really doing here.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
@VictoryinJesus Since I asked you the question first. and everyone answered for you (sort of)
The work jesus said that they must do is to believe and this is the work of God.
the reason they asked is because Jesus said, do not search for food which perishes, but food which endures forever. which he would give them.
In context. they were asking what work they could do to recieve that food.
What was the food Jesus spoke about. that would endure forever. and what does that mean?
The work jesus said that they must do is to believe and this is the work of God.
the reason they asked is because Jesus said, do not search for food which perishes, but food which endures forever. which he would give them.
In context. they were asking what work they could do to recieve that food.
What was the food Jesus spoke about. that would endure forever. and what does that mean?
Ritajanice
Well-Known Member
He thought he was ok, he wasn’t he was spiritually dead?
Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. The Apostle Paul is looking back in time and remembers (living physically) without the law. Meaning he was not dead. But when he was confronted with the Law he realised the law condemned him to death.
You are missing the point. They asked Jesus what THEY COULD DO to do the works of God. Jesus corrected them...as I'm correcting you... It is the work of God that you can believe INTO Jesus. No man can assume or name and claim it as so many do here.
You assume that because you believe ABOUT Jesus that somehow that makes you born again.
Not so.
To believe INTO Jesus is a miracle of God, a work of God, so that you walk in a heavenly realm...the realm of the Spirit, to walk as Jesus walked. Only one who is regenerated by the Spirit can even think about such things. Most have no idea of spiritual things at all...thinking the bible is a religious book that people can justify themselves with. And these will say I'm trying to make eternal life harder than it is. But if these knew what eternal life was, they would say I'm going easy on people....being very patient with utter ignorance among those who name and claim and know nothing of what the gospel is about.
But the NT is a testimonial of people who actually walked with Jesus. And we can share in that same fellowship by translation into the kingdom realm of the Spirit in Zion...where Jesus is.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You can't ever deflect what you've said about "the Cross not being about Forgiveness".
also, any reader here... can read my 2 previous posts, carefully, and find out for themselves, what you can't understand, yet.
Notice..
Paul was not teaching that He was suddenly a sinner.........and that is realized when He told us He was a Pharisee, "blameless in the Law".
So, He was a grown man, "blameless in the Law".. .and he would have known the "law", to become a Pharisee, and be "blameless in it", .. He would understand what he's saying.
Also, Paul understands Grace, and "made righteous".. and He knows that "it is not sin when you dont know it".
So Paul knew the Law, and was "blameless".
And Notice that he said He was the "chief of sinners", yet this is related to helping Murder Christians, before Paul became one.... and he thought this was a righteous work.........not a sin.
So, why refer to Himself as a "chief of sinners" when at the time he didnt perceive that getting rid of "heretic Christians" was anything other then a Righteous Deed.
See that?
So, Paul often talks in this spiritual way., that can't be read like a dictionary.. or explained like one..... and that is why Peter said that some of what Paul teaches, is "hard to understand".
I'll give you an example.
A Legalist like you, a Calvinist, and dedicated to "law"... will read.. "we are changed from Glory to Glory" and you'll think this means....>>>"that is the outer man becoming more sanctified., thats me walking in Zion .............
See that? That is how the natural mind process, what it can't discern spiritually.
The natural mind in the Religious, is always thinking that personal doing, is "spirituality".. proven.
But Paul teaches your "outer man", is "Crucified with Christ" already.
Let me show you another one ......... Paul says.......>>"Take up your Cross"........ and so, a Legalist like you, hears that in your natural mind as "do more works" and "try to resist being carnal"... "self sacrifice"... "im doing righteousness"..
Yet What Paul is teaching is to "die to self"......He is teaching....>>>>"It is no longer I who live" "but Christ who lives in me"..
So, to take up that cross, is to die to any type of self effort to try to please God, thinking believing, that all these personal sacrifices are "taking up your Cross".
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