The social gospel?

[marks]

I think you think I mean it’s all about the Fruit of the Spirit and not the One bears the Fruit. Or all about the food instead of He who supplies the food. Or all about “the Fruit of the Spirit” instead of God who is that Spirit? I’m not saying that. Or not meaning to come off as saying that. You did say the Fruit of the Spirit can die. I’m not sure I agree there, because to me those Fruits of the Spirit are the only thing that make it through the fire being connected to the Vine. The works of the flesh burned up.

I don't see the fruit of the spirit as being the result in my life when I'm being more spiritual, or something like that. Is see this fruit as being the effect of the Spirit of Christ living in me. If the Spirit is foremost in me, if I walk in the Spirit, I love, I rejoice, I'm at peace, and so forth. It's His fruit bearing in my life, in my character (soul) being overcome by my spirit, which is now led by His Spirit.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't see the fruit of the spirit as being the result in my life when I'm being more spiritual, or something like that. Is see this fruit as being the effect of the Spirit of Christ living in me. If the Spirit is foremost in me, if I walk in the Spirit, I love, I rejoice, I'm at peace, and so forth. It's His fruit bearing in my life, in my character (soul) being overcome by my spirit, which is now led by His Spirit.

Much love!

I do see what you are talking about. Maybe I have it backwards. but the Life lived in Him affects others also? So at the same time planting and sowing by living it, walking in Him daily?

 

[marks]

I do see what you are talking about. Maybe I have it backwards. but the Life lived in Him affects others also? So at the same time planting and sowing by living it, walking in Him daily?

The life lived in Him is holiness, which is purpose. God's purpose for us is that we live in this world as Jesus did, not for ourselves, but for others. Walking in Him is being a servant as He was a servant, being sacrificed as He was sacrificed, and being resurrected to serve with power.

The purpose of self control isn't just that we don't sin, but that we are reserved for His use, not allowing distractions, sin, selfcenteredness, and persevering in good works, that benefit others.

I need to be the best I can be in Christ to fulfill my purpose in this world towards others.

1 John 5:2 LITV
By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments.

Keeping God's commandments is a sign that we love others, because we know that what is best for them, from me, is that I am obedient to the Lord, so that what they receive from me is not fleshy, but strong in the Lord, because I keep His commands, and therefore my works are not my own.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That was the point I was trying to share …It reminds me of seek Him first and His Righteousness…then He supplies the food.

Ok lets start here. Jesus said of this food. How long will it end, and what will happen to those who eat it

I have no clue. i think it is : we will no longer hunger or thirst after righteousness for the Lord will fill us with His Righteousness.

Ok, this is a start again, But did he say after righteousness? or is he talking about this hunger or thirst for what will save us and make us whole.

What could God give you that would satisfy you completely forever? but salvation?

Acts 27:34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you.

Life also.
Health and Life …are they not the same? If you prefer: the Life of the body, instead of health of the body…to me it’s the same thing. But which ever you prefer.
Isaiah 58:8-11 Then shall your shall light break forth as the morning, and your health shall spring forth speedily: and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the LORD shall be your rereward. [9] Then shall you call, and the LORD shall answer; you shall cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If you take away(remove) from the midst of you the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; [10] And if you draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and you darkness be as the noonday: [11] And the LORD shall guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat your bones: and you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
…goes with the topic I think of waters that fail not. I don’t know the answer you ask. Maybe I’m in a drought. But at least I’m telling you I believe He is the only true source of being satisfied.

If we will never die (although our body will still die so he is not talking about this) what could Jesus be talking about? (I know it can be hard to understand)

Agree.

I need to get off here. If you really want me to come back to this last part I will. But I think that you are wanting me to say something particular, that you don’t feel satisfied with my answers yet. That is the trick i mentioned. I think you think I mean it’s all about the Fruit of the Spirit and not the One bears the Fruit. Or all about the food instead of He who supplies the food. Or all about “the Fruit of the Spirit” instead of God who is that Spirit? I’m not saying that. Or not meaning to come off as saying that. You did say the Fruit of the Spirit can die. I’m not sure I agree there, because to me those Fruits of the Spirit are the only thing that make it through the fire being connected to the Vine. The works of the flesh burned up.

I am not sure what you mean. I do not think you mean anything? I am just trying to understand and trying to ask you what Jesus was talkin gabout

I do not think the fruit of the spirit is in context here. What I meant about it dying is that even if we could produce the fruit of the spirit. it would not sustain us to eternal life..

Three reasons I question the Fruit of the Spirit can die.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abides (remains?)faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
His seed…is it not from His seed (an incorruptible seed) that Fruit of the Spirit comes out from? Then how is the Fruit which is by Christ die?

2 Corinthians 3:9-11 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Again, I am not talking about the fruit of the spirit. I am talking about the food which one can eat and not die.

How many times do you have to eat this food. if it endures forever, and you can eat it and not die?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do see what you are talking about. Maybe I have it backwards. but the Life lived in Him affects others also? So at the same time planting and sowing by living it, walking in Him daily?

Yes AMEN!!! 100X Amen

 

[Nancy]

is this not blasphemy?

do we really believe the cross. the basis for eternal salvation, is not about forgiveness. and why would we want to support this thinking?

Of course we don't! And neither does Epi. Simply ask him.

 

[Johann]

Of course we don't! And neither does Epi. Simply ask him.

Don't have to-just listen to his video clip. 5 minutes in-He does NOT believe forgiveness of hamartia en του σταυρου-simply ask him.
J.

 

[Nancy]

Don't have to-just listen to his video clip. 5 minutes in-He does NOT believe forgiveness of hamartia en του σταυρου-simply ask him.
J.

Thanks Johan but, that word only tells me "missing the mark" so I' have no idea what you mean. Commission or omission perhaps come into play but not making a connection, need much more brother.

 

[Johann]

Thanks Johan but, that word only tells me "missing the mark" so I' have no idea what you mean. Commission or omission perhaps come into play but not making a connection, need much more brother.

I said-Listen to his video clip-round about 5 minutes in-Epi does NOT believe in/---
the significance of the cross in the forgiveness of sins:





The forgiveness of sins through the cross of Jesus Christ is a central tenet of Christian theology. This concept is thoroughly supported by Scripture. Here are several key passages that highlight the significance of the cross in the forgiveness of sins:

New Testament Passages
Matthew 26:28 (ESV)

"For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
Explanation: Jesus speaks during the Last Supper, indicating that His blood, shed on the cross, is for the forgiveness of sins. This establishes the connection between His sacrificial death and the atonement of humanity’s sins.

Ephesians 1:7 (ESV)

"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."
Explanation: Paul explains that redemption and forgiveness of sins are obtained through the blood of Christ, signifying His death on the cross.

Colossians 1:19-20 (ESV)

"For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
Explanation: This passage highlights that peace and reconciliation, which include the forgiveness of sins, are made possible through the blood of the cross.

Hebrews 9:22 (ESV)

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."
Explanation: The author of Hebrews emphasizes the necessity of bloodshed for forgiveness, pointing to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

1 Peter 2:24 (ESV)

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed."
Explanation: Peter underscores that Jesus bore our sins on the cross (referred to as “the tree”), resulting in spiritual healing and forgiveness.

1 John 1:7 (ESV)

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin."
Explanation: John affirms that the blood of Jesus, shed on the cross, cleanses us from all sin, ensuring forgiveness.

Revelation 1:5 (ESV)

"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood."
Explanation: This passage attributes the forgiveness and liberation from sins directly to the blood of Jesus, shed on the cross.

Summary
The New Testament consistently teaches that the forgiveness of sins is made possible through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the cross. The shedding of His blood is the means by which atonement is achieved, fulfilling the requirements of the Old Testament sacrificial system and inaugurating the New Covenant. This central act of the crucifixion underscores the Christian belief in the grace of God, who provides forgiveness and reconciliation through the death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course we don't! And neither does Epi. Simply ask him.

He said that the cross is not about forgiveness.

I quoted his post.

So if you do not support this thinking (Praise God) why would you support Epi. since this is the very thing Epi teaches.

The cross is not about forgiveness..it is about freedom from the bondage of sin, so that God doesn't have to keep forgiving us.

He says the cross is not about forgiveness. its about the freedom from sin (sinlessness) so that God does not have to forgive us.

Is this not blasphemy?

 

[Johann]

He said that the cross is not about forgiveness.

I quoted his post.

So if you do not support this thinking (Praise God) why would you support Epi. since this is the very thing Epi teaches.

He says the cross is not about forgiveness. its about the freedom from sin (sinlessness) so that God does not have to forgive us.

Is this not blasphemy?

Yes it is-and have given @Nancy the references.

Mat 26:28 For this is my [Moshiach’s, see Isa 53:7-8] Dahm HaBrit HaChadasha [Isa 42:6; Jer 31:31-34], which is poured out LARABBIM (for many YESHAYAH 53:11-12) for the selicha (forgiveness) of chattaim (sins).

ἄφεσις
áphesis; gen. aphéseōs, fem. noun. from aphíēmi (G863), to cause to stand away, to release one's sins from the sinner. Forgiveness, remission. This required Christ's sacrifice as punishment of sin, hence the putting away of sin and the deliverance of the sinner from the power of sin, although not from its presence, which will come later after the resurrection when our very bodies will be redeemed (Rom_8:23). See Mat_26:28; Mar_1:4; Mar_3:29; Luk_1:77; Luk_3:3; Luk_4:18; Luk_24:47; Act_2:38; Act_5:31; Act_10:43; Act_13:38; Act_26:18; Eph_1:7; Col_1:14; Heb_9:22; Heb_10:18; Sept.: Lev_25:11; Deu_15:3; Est_2:18; Isa_61:1. Distinguished from páresis (G3929), the temporary bypassing of sin (only in Rom_3:25).

Of the 17 times áphesis occurs in the NT, it is followed on 12 occasions by the word hamartiṓn (G266), of sins; therefore, sins are the cords whereby man is bound away from God. Man became a slave of sin because of the fall of Adam (Rom_5:12; Rom_6:17, Rom_6:20), and thus in his fallen state is presented as a prisoner. In Luk_4:18, where the Lord Jesus declared His ministry on earth, quoted from Isa_61:1, man is presented as aichmálōtos (G164), a prisoner of war, a captive. His captivity is due to the sin of Adam and to his own sin in that he continues in sinfulness.

It is interesting indeed that in Luk_4:18, the word áphesis is used without any designation of what this deliverance or forgiveness is from. The Lord said: "He hath anointed me to . . . preach deliverance to the captives [the word is the same, áphesis] . . . to set at liberty [again the word is the same, en {G1722}, in; aphései, at freedom]."

The work of Christ, therefore, is designated as deliverance from everything that holds man a prisoner away from God. However, setting sinful man free would have been a very dangerous thing if God did not simultaneously change man's nature (2Co_5:17; 2Pe_1:4). Man's freedom is not one that permits him to continue in sin (1Jn_3:6), but binds him in Christ. What Christ does is not simply to take man from prison and set him free, but also to change him radically (katallássei [G2644]), giving him power over sin.
Áphesis involves the new birth of man spiritually or in his inner self (Joh_3:1-12). Man's spirit, therefore, is transformed through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom_5:1). Man with a new spirit within him is given the ability to have power over sin, having been delivered from the guilt of sin: "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness" (Rom_6:17-18).

Áphesis is part of a larger process which does not involve simply the freedom of the sinner, but the change of the sinner from being a slave of sin to becoming a slave of God. With that freedom from sin, he acquires freedom of action because of his changed nature and spirit. He acquires that ability to follow after God instead of fleeing from God, the desire to flee from sin and pursue it. Forgiveness, therefore, must never be understood as the permission for the sinner to continue in his sinful condition.

In the same manner, we must not misunderstand the use of the verb aphíēmi (G863), to forgive on the part of the Christian in regard to another, as meaning the forgiving Christian is supposed to allow the sinner to continue in his sinful condition. Forgiveness is not condoning sin but rather doing everything possible to see that the particular sin or sins of the sinner are removed from him by God who is the only One who can deliver and cleanse him. Forgiveness, therefore, is never freedom in sin but freedom from sin by God (italics added).

Heb_9:22 contains an absolute statement, "without shedding of blood is no remission [áphesis]." As animal sacrifices gave OT sinners relief from the guilt of sin, so Jesus Christ's shed blood (His sacrificial death) gives believers not only freedom from the guilt of sin, which in the NT is called justification (dikaíōsis [G1347]) (Rom_4:25; Rom_5:18), but also katharismós (G2512), cleansing or purification (Heb_1:3; 2Pe_1:9). This is why in Rom_3:25 in speaking of the OT sacrifices, Paul calls the result páresis (G3929), which unfortunately is translated "remission," as if it were the same as áphesis. If Paul meant it to be áphesis, the permanent remission of sins without the need of further sacrifices, he would have called it that. The blood of Christ provided the removal of the guilt of sin as well as the cleansing from sin on a permanent basis. Páresis (G3929), occurring only in Rom_3:25, must be translated the "bypassing" of sin and not the "remission" of sin, for where there is forgiveness of sins there is no more offering for sin (Heb_10:18).

Syn.: apolútrōsis (G629), redemption; ánesis (G425), a relaxing, letting loose; aníēmi (G441), to stand up or to provide liberty or rest; eleuthería (G1657), freedom, which is the resultant effect of forgiveness or áphesis; hilasmós (G2434), atonement, propitiation; cháris (G5485), grace (indicating the disposition of the one forgiving, while áphesis expresses the result of the acceptance of that grace); sōtēría (G4991), salvation, deliverance; dikaíōsis (G1347), justification, being more than acquittal since it also renders a person just.
Ant.: kríma (G2917), verdict pronounced; katákrima, condemnation, sentence followed by a suggested punishment; krísis (G2920), the process of judging, judgment; katákrisis (G2633), the act of condemnation.
Vine's Dictionary.

 

[Lizbeth]

No sis it is not. I do not get into those types of questions, they do not do anyone any good. I just want to discuss what Jesus said and why..

May I ask (just trying to see what your thinking)

The fruit of the spirit. is this a food you can eat and recieve these things

1. You will never hunger or thirst.
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

2. They will never die
John 6: 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

The fruit of the spirit to me is the fruit we produce when we are doing the work of God. Its not what we eat. does this make sense? Again, I am not trying to trick you)

Amen...it is both eating His flesh and drinking His blood....as well as doing God's will, since Jesus said His meat was to do the Father's will. Doing His will leads to life. And this is what Jesus said to those who were saying "Lord, Lord" etc...only he who does the will of my Father in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven. And what is His will...putting His words into practice....sermon on the mount, etc.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes it is-and have given @Nancy the references.

Mat 26:28 For this is my [Moshiach’s, see Isa 53:7-8] Dahm HaBrit HaChadasha [Isa 42:6; Jer 31:31-34], which is poured out LARABBIM (for many YESHAYAH 53:11-12) for the selicha (forgiveness) of chattaim (sins).

ἄφεσις
áphesis; gen. aphéseōs, fem. noun. from aphíēmi (G863), to cause to stand away, to release one's sins from the sinner. Forgiveness, remission. This required Christ's sacrifice as punishment of sin, hence the putting away of sin and the deliverance of the sinner from the power of sin, although not from its presence, which will come later after the resurrection when our very bodies will be redeemed (Rom_8:23). See Mat_26:28; Mar_1:4; Mar_3:29; Luk_1:77; Luk_3:3; Luk_4:18; Luk_24:47; Act_2:38; Act_5:31; Act_10:43; Act_13:38; Act_26:18; Eph_1:7; Col_1:14; Heb_9:22; Heb_10:18; Sept.: Lev_25:11; Deu_15:3; Est_2:18; Isa_61:1. Distinguished from páresis (G3929), the temporary bypassing of sin (only in Rom_3:25).

Of the 17 times áphesis occurs in the NT, it is followed on 12 occasions by the word hamartiṓn (G266), of sins; therefore, sins are the cords whereby man is bound away from God. Man became a slave of sin because of the fall of Adam (Rom_5:12; Rom_6:17, Rom_6:20), and thus in his fallen state is presented as a prisoner. In Luk_4:18, where the Lord Jesus declared His ministry on earth, quoted from Isa_61:1, man is presented as aichmálōtos (G164), a prisoner of war, a captive. His captivity is due to the sin of Adam and to his own sin in that he continues in sinfulness.

It is interesting indeed that in Luk_4:18, the word áphesis is used without any designation of what this deliverance or forgiveness is from. The Lord said: "He hath anointed me to . . . preach deliverance to the captives [the word is the same, áphesis] . . . to set at liberty [again the word is the same, en {G1722}, in; aphései, at freedom]."

The work of Christ, therefore, is designated as deliverance from everything that holds man a prisoner away from God. However, setting sinful man free would have been a very dangerous thing if God did not simultaneously change man's nature (2Co_5:17; 2Pe_1:4). Man's freedom is not one that permits him to continue in sin (1Jn_3:6), but binds him in Christ. What Christ does is not simply to take man from prison and set him free, but also to change him radically (katallássei [G2644]), giving him power over sin.
Áphesis involves the new birth of man spiritually or in his inner self (Joh_3:1-12). Man's spirit, therefore, is transformed through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom_5:1). Man with a new spirit within him is given the ability to have power over sin, having been delivered from the guilt of sin: "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness" (Rom_6:17-18).

Áphesis is part of a larger process which does not involve simply the freedom of the sinner, but the change of the sinner from being a slave of sin to becoming a slave of God. With that freedom from sin, he acquires freedom of action because of his changed nature and spirit. He acquires that ability to follow after God instead of fleeing from God, the desire to flee from sin and pursue it. Forgiveness, therefore, must never be understood as the permission for the sinner to continue in his sinful condition.

In the same manner, we must not misunderstand the use of the verb aphíēmi (G863), to forgive on the part of the Christian in regard to another, as meaning the forgiving Christian is supposed to allow the sinner to continue in his sinful condition. Forgiveness is not condoning sin but rather doing everything possible to see that the particular sin or sins of the sinner are removed from him by God who is the only One who can deliver and cleanse him. Forgiveness, therefore, is never freedom in sin but freedom from sin by God (italics added).

Heb_9:22 contains an absolute statement, "without shedding of blood is no remission [áphesis]." As animal sacrifices gave OT sinners relief from the guilt of sin, so Jesus Christ's shed blood (His sacrificial death) gives believers not only freedom from the guilt of sin, which in the NT is called justification (dikaíōsis [G1347]) (Rom_4:25; Rom_5:18), but also katharismós (G2512), cleansing or purification (Heb_1:3; 2Pe_1:9). This is why in Rom_3:25 in speaking of the OT sacrifices, Paul calls the result páresis (G3929), which unfortunately is translated "remission," as if it were the same as áphesis. If Paul meant it to be áphesis, the permanent remission of sins without the need of further sacrifices, he would have called it that. The blood of Christ provided the removal of the guilt of sin as well as the cleansing from sin on a permanent basis. Páresis (G3929), occurring only in Rom_3:25, must be translated the "bypassing" of sin and not the "remission" of sin, for where there is forgiveness of sins there is no more offering for sin (Heb_10:18).

Syn.: apolútrōsis (G629), redemption; ánesis (G425), a relaxing, letting loose; aníēmi (G441), to stand up or to provide liberty or rest; eleuthería (G1657), freedom, which is the resultant effect of forgiveness or áphesis; hilasmós (G2434), atonement, propitiation; cháris (G5485), grace (indicating the disposition of the one forgiving, while áphesis expresses the result of the acceptance of that grace); sōtēría (G4991), salvation, deliverance; dikaíōsis (G1347), justification, being more than acquittal since it also renders a person just.
Ant.: kríma (G2917), verdict pronounced; katákrima, condemnation, sentence followed by a suggested punishment; krísis (G2920), the process of judging, judgment; katákrisis (G2633), the act of condemnation.
Vine's Dictionary.

@Nancy is a good person.

 

[Johann]

@Nancy is a good person.

Did I say anything to the contrary?

 

[Behold]

Amen...it is both eating His flesh and drinking His blood....as well as doing God's will, since Jesus said His meat was to do the Father's will. Doing His will leads to life. And this is what Jesus said to those who were saying "Lord, Lord" etc...only he who does the will of my Father in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven. And what is His will...putting His words into practice....sermon on the mount, etc.

Reader,

What happens if you try to behave like Jesus, and you are water baptized at least 3 times , and you take communion 2x a day, and you read your bible a lot, you go to church every Sunday.... and you love your neighbor as yourself your whole life , yet you are never born again, and die. ???

A.) Hell.

Why?
Its because God's Salvation, is not based on how you behave AFTER you receive it., or before you receive it.... Its only based on Jesus whose blood and death makes you accepted by God and keeps you accepted by God, as otherwise, the Cross would be a FAILURE.
Its not.
Jesus didn't fail.,,. The Cross of Christ didn't fail.... and Jesus THE Christ, THE LORD... rose from the Dead to prove His Eternal Success.

Now...Here is the thing about doing good works.
An unbeliever, can do the same good works, and some do more then most Christians.
So, reader, you were saved by God, only because you Gave God your Faith in Christ, and not your works.. as all you brought to God on your beautiful day of Salvation.... was "A lifetime of SIN and FAITH in Christ"....

Listen.... God forgave your sin and accepted your faith in Christ and Took you, forever.
You're His because ONLY the Blood and Death of Jesus has made this possible. John 14:6

Now, before you were saved, you could give to the poor. You could love people, and try to do good works. You could do all the same works that a Christian can do, and yet, the works didnt save you........nor will they keep a Christian saved who does them.
Works are just works........they dont increase in value, once you are born again., they are just works............and nothing more, down here.

See, an UNBELIEVER can see someone holding a sign that says.....>"HOMELESS" and they can roll down their window and hand them $20 dollars USD.
And you come along later with your "JESUS" Car Tag.... and do the same.......There is NO DIFFERENCE in that WORK.............its just a deed.........and nothing more.
So, dont present to God an idea that is broken faith... that tries to prove to God that your works are why God would have you and keep you, as if you do that... you insult Jesus's blood and death that is literally the only reason God will have you and keep you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did I say anything to the contrary?

No I was just saying. Sorry if you took it wrong forgive me

 

[Johann]

No I was just saying. Sorry if you took it wrong forgive me

No need to apologize.

 

[Johann]

There is NO DIFFERENCE in that WORK.............its just a deed.........and nothing more.

I disagree here--
Good works are indeed an integral part of the Christian life, serving as evidence of faith and a response to the grace received through Jesus Christ. Scripture underscores that while salvation is by grace through faith and not by works, good works are the expected and natural outcome of a transformed life. Here are key scriptures that highlight the importance of good works for believers:

Old Testament
Micah 6:8 (ESV)

"He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of living a life characterized by justice, kindness, and humility, which are good works pleasing to God.

New Testament
Matthew 5:16 (ESV)

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."
Explanation: Jesus teaches that believers should perform good works as a testimony to others, glorifying God.

Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
Explanation: Paul explains that believers are created in Christ for good works, which God has prepared for them to do.

Titus 2:7 (ESV)

"Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity."
Explanation: Paul instructs Titus to be a model of good works, demonstrating the importance of living out one’s faith through actions.

Titus 3:8 (ESV)

"The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."
Explanation: Believers are encouraged to devote themselves to good works as an excellent and profitable expression of their faith.

Titus 3:14 (ESV)

"And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful."
Explanation: Paul emphasizes the necessity for believers to engage in good works to meet urgent needs and be fruitful in their faith.

Hebrews 10:24 (ESV)

"And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works."
Explanation: Believers are encouraged to motivate one another towards love and good works, fostering a supportive community.

James 2:14-17 (ESV)

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
Explanation: James argues that genuine faith is demonstrated through good works, and faith without works is dead.

1 Peter 2:12 (ESV)

"Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation."
Explanation: Believers are encouraged to maintain honorable conduct, so their good deeds can be a testimony that leads others to glorify God.

Galatians 6:9-10 (ESV)

"And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith."
Explanation: Paul encourages believers to persist in doing good to all, especially fellow believers, promising a future reward.

1 Timothy 6:18 (ESV)

"They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share."
Explanation: Paul instructs Timothy to teach the rich to be rich in good works, emphasizing generosity and sharing.

Summary
Scripture consistently teaches that good works are an essential aspect of the Christian life. They are not the basis of salvation but the evidence of genuine faith and a response to God's grace. Believers are called to perform good works to glorify God, serve others, and demonstrate the transformative power of the gospel in their lives.

Text (ESV)
Matthew 25:31-46:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Detailed Exegesis
Verses 31-33: The Coming of the Son of Man
31-32: Jesus describes the final judgment when the Son of Man comes in glory. All nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people as a shepherd separates sheep from goats.

Son of Man: A Messianic title that Jesus frequently uses for Himself, emphasizing His role in the final judgment.
Glory: Denotes divine majesty and authority.
Separation: The act of distinguishing between the righteous (sheep) and the unrighteous (goats).
33: The sheep are placed on His right (a position of honor), and the goats on His left (a position of disfavor).

Verses 34-40: The Reward of the Righteous
34: The King invites the righteous (sheep) to inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. This inheritance is a result of their blessed status by the Father.

Inherit the kingdom: Reflects the eschatological hope and reward for the faithful.
Prepared from the foundation of the world: Emphasizes God’s eternal plan and purpose.
35-36: The basis for their reward is their compassionate actions: feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, and visiting those in prison.

Acts of mercy: These deeds are practical expressions of love and compassion towards others.
37-39: The righteous are surprised and inquire when they performed these acts for the King, indicating their humble service without seeking recognition.

40: The King reveals that whatever they did for "the least of these my brothers," they did for Him.

The least of these: Refers to the vulnerable and needy in society, often interpreted as fellow believers but can extend to all humanity.
Identification with Christ: Serving others is serving Christ Himself.
Verses 41-46: The Judgment of the Unrighteous
41: The King condemns the unrighteous (goats) to eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Depart from me: A stark contrast to the invitation given to the righteous.
Eternal fire: Symbolizes eternal punishment and separation from God.
42-43: The basis for their condemnation is their failure to perform acts of mercy.

Neglect: They did not feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, welcome strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick, or visit those in prison.
44: The unrighteous also express surprise, asking when they failed to serve the King.

Believers are called to practical Christianity, where faith is lived out through concrete acts of mercy. The church is encouraged to actively engage in social justice and care for the marginalized and oppressed.














Not being facetious @Behold

 

[Behold]

I disagree here--
Good works are indeed an integral part of the Christian life,

I didnt say that good works are not""" integral to the Christian life.""""

A fact is, i post, probably, from week to week,, more actual posts than anyone on this forum, and i've written more threads than anyone, on this forum......so, my works are clearly seen, but im not doing this to try to keep myself saved.
Im doing it, for the same reason i do a lot of good works in my real life.. and real Ministry.
Its because, we are to "Present our body as a living Sacrifice to God".., so i try to do that.

Now, what I posted is that the value of the work that you can do, as a Christian, has no more value, no more intrinsic value, then it would have if you gave to the poor as an unbeliever.
And i stated clearly.. "down here".

Where the change is.........is that the unbeliever, is not in the body of Christ, so, works that will be counted by Jesus at the Bema seat, have no value UP THERE, whereas the born again's deeds, will be assessed up there..
But down here, Works are jus Works., and God does not esteem us as "better then that one".. God does not look at a believers works to evaluate them, because He has already evaluated the Born again as "the Righteousness of God in Christ".. an "Heir of God".
The Favor of God, is not created by working hard.......Its created by being Saved.. born again.

Notice that James says that you show """OTHERS""" your works that are the "fruit" of your Salvation"

He says, "i will show YOU my works"........>>Not GOD,..... as God is not interested in your works, He's interested only in the heart motive you have for doing the works.
God looks at the Heart @Johann , and Man looks at your works, as James teaches,...... as this proves your CHRISTianty, to other people, but not to God., as being born again has proven your Christianity, for eternity.

So, we are all to be in the daily service of God, but not to try to keep ourselves saved, as once that becomes a part of the reason that a person is doing good works, then that proves that their faith in Christ, is broken.

 

[Johann]

I didnt say that good works are not""" integral to the Christian life.""""

A fact is, i post, probably, from week to week,, more actual posts than anyone on this forum, and i've written more threads than anyone, on this forum......so, my works are clearly seen, but im not doing this to try to keep myself saved.
Im doing it, for the same reason i do a lot of good works in my real life.. and real Ministry.
Its because, we are to "Present our body as a living Sacrifice to God".., so i do.

Now, what I posted is that the value of the work that you can do, as a Christian, has no more value, no more intrinsic value, then it would have if you gave to the poor as an unbeliever.
And i stated clearly.. "down here".

Where the change is.........is that the unbeliever, is not in the body of Christ, so, works that will be counted by Jesus at the Bema seat, have no value UP THERE, whereas the born again's deeds, will be assessed up there..
But down here, Works are jus Works., and God does not esteem us as "better then that one".. God does not look at a believers works to evaluate them, because He has already evaluated the Born again as "the Righteousness of God in Christ".. an "Heir of God".
The Favor of God, is not created by working hard.......Its created by being Saved.. born again.

Notice that James says that you show """OTHERS""" your works that are the "fruit" of your Salvation"

He says, "i will show YOU my works"........>>Not GOD,..... as God is not interested in your works, He's interested only in the heart motive you have for doing the works.
God looks at the Heart @Johann , and Man looks at your works, as James teaches,...... as this proves your CHRISTianty, to other people, but not to God., as being born again has proven your Christianity, for eternity.

So, we are all to be in the daily service of God, but not to try to keep ourselves saved, as once that becomes a part of the reason that a person is doing good works, then that proves that their faith in Christ, is broken.

Thanks for the clarification brother.