The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

I ask again (since I asked the question to begin with)

What was the context of why the people asked Jesus what works they must do.

I am not asking because I do not understand what Epi said. or to try to counter him, I am trying to use context to explain a point.

If you don;t want to participate thats fine

 

[Episkopos]

I think your forgetting what is being put on is the Fruit of the Spirit. Christ walking in Paul…the Life Paul now lived in Christ was always toward others. The garments put on—the granted adornment of, He has given you power to become Sons, “we will gladly be weak, that you be made strong, and this we Hope, even your perfection.” If there is a higher calling in Christ …Pauls walk in Christ modeled the same steps as Christ who although He possessed all things He becomes poor so that many could be made rich toward God. So is higher, lower? Actually? In submission?

Those blind, naked and poor. Miserable. What I hear in His word is not to unclothe anything until He comes. I listen to proverbs at night and there is a lot in it about discretion and stealing away someone’s garment before it’s time. So much I think we may have attached a romantic notion to : Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Thinking it’s our digging for nuggets of gold. When we may have missed the beginning of “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter.”

And how men will come as “thieves” for sure and rob those in need and leave them naked and half-dead. But what I hear is the Love of Christ for the poor, blind and lost. The miserable. To prepare a way “so you be not caught unaware by the thief in the night” who comes indeed to steal, kill and destroy. I’ve thought a lot about why He said you know that day comes as a thief in the night. Personally, I think it’s robbery where is said to be God but comes to steal and unclothe so nakedness appears. All the while God is moving to prepare to clothe …knowing we have need of clothing. I know no one probably sees it the same. But it’s like the verse where He is evil spoken of by some. And glorified by others. A thief comes to stare and laugh and mock at men, to look on their nakedness and shame. Who does that sound like? The accuser of the brethren? Loving to get men naked. But Christ said it Himself “I came so that they may have Life.” Personally I think it’s cruelty to unclothe any where Christ is not sown. But rather nourish the seed that grows into “Christ formed in you” and He will provide your clothing that no thief can steal away from you. Is God in opposition with Himself?

The error of SO MANY...is that they think they can improve themselves into putting on Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. He is NOT the Author and we finish the job gradually. We have to go to Jesus to finish what He started.

Paul rebuked the Galatians for trying to improve themselves gradually. A miracle is just that. It's something we can't do of ourselves.

Having begun in the Spirit...

He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are you born of the Spirit? Good! A miracle has taken place. Now to fulfill that calling you need to go to God for the full measure of grace and put on the New Man. A new miracle! People get one miracle and like the 9 lepers don't return to Jesus.

So there is a great misunderstanding in treating the calling in Christ as if it was a religion to believe in to improve oneself into.

Faith is ALWAYS about the impossible. Beliefs makes things common and carnal.

 

[Behold]

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Rom. 7:9

Ok, i'll show you... happy to teach Paul's Doctrine..

Ask me anytime.. @Episkopos , as thats why im on "christian" forums...

= Paul said the "commandment came".. yet, The commandment came (the 10) with Moses, which was given 1471 yrs before Paul was born.
Paul said the commandment came....and "I died".. yet the "commandments and law" were given 1471 yrs before Paul was born, so how did they come to Paul . suddenly, and he never states when........

Now.....Dont try to explain that one @Episkopos..... as its not in your world of commentaries., or "Hebrew" Texts.

1.) So, lets keep going with Paul's teaching, as in Rom 7 Paul talks about "that which i want to do i can't", and that is Paul teaching us what happens when we try of ourselves to stop sinning.
This is .. "The power of the LAW is sin"... "The Law is the power of Sin" "The law empowers you to SIn'...

2.) Therefore, Paul teaches us that the Law is our "Schoolmaster to lead us to Christ".. to bring us to The Cross, so that Christ can "redeem us from the Curse of the Law"... and put us......>>"not under the Law........but under GRACE"//

3.) See, Paul was finding out that once he tried to Keep the Law and Commandments, then that POWER OF SIN, that is caused by the LAW became His PROBLEM., as it is for all who try to keep law and commandments to try to be righteous...

4.) So, those who do this ARE.......>>Paul said......>>"being IGNORANT of Christ's Righteousness, they go about trying to establish their OWN Righteousness, " = that is of the law, and commandments..

5.) So, that is the '"state" of the "self righteous" who are "in the FLESH" and "Fallen from Grace" as Paul describes the LEGALIST.., and some of those who are on this forum who pretend to be a "teacher".

A.) Then Paul shows us how to get out of that,.. wrong believing.

AA.) He shows us that "we are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE".. and = "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the LAW".

Now, Reader.. HERETICS, will try to put you back under "THE LAW"...

AAA.) But Jesus has "redeemed us".......from that........ because.. "Christ is the END of the LAW for Righteousness, to every one who BELIEVES"

A.) So, when the BELIEVER Get's this REVELATiON that is Paul's Doctrine, and they begin to understand who they have become as "made righteous".. as "The Righteousness of GOD.. .in Christ.""""..((FOR ETERNITY))...... then they will find the Power of Christ within them that produces their DISCIPLESHIP.., as they are now walking in God's Grace, at all times.

This is REAL FAITH.

= "Christ ALWAYS GIVES.... ME.. .The Victory" over the world, the flesh, and the devil.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The error of SO MANY...is that they think they can improve themselves into putting on Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. He is NOT the Author and we finish the job gradually. We have to go to Jesus to finish what He started.

So we can not improve by putting on christ? Then how do we become christlike?

Paul rebuked the Galatians for trying to improve themselves gradually. A miracle is just that. It's something we can't do of ourselves.

Having begun in the Spirit...

He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are you born of the Spirit? Good! A miracle has taken place.

Yes, this is the begining.

But paul said he was confident, as should we be, that ne who began that good work WILL COMPLETE IT.

Now to fulfill that calling you need to go to God for the full measure of grace and put on the New Man. A new miracle! People get one miracle and like the 9 lepers don't return to Jesus.

Is this not putting on Christ?

So there is a great misunderstanding in treating the calling in Christ as if it was a religion to believe in to improve oneself into.

Religion says God look at me

Christianity (true) points to christ in all things.. and points away from self.

Faith is ALWAYS about the impossible. Beliefs makes things common and carnal.

Its also about the unseen,

If we can see it, it is not really of faith.

 

[Episkopos]

what was jesus comment which caused them to ask what they could do? ie the context?

Is this about a works religion of human effort? Or about the need to seek God for His visitation and empowering?

 

[Ritajanice]

Faith is ALWAYS about the impossible.

Amen!!!...there is nothing that God can’t do....obviously he doesn’t lie...

We walk in faith and that measure of faith that is measured unto us....will grow and grow....because it was God given!

 

[Episkopos]

Ok, i'll show you... happy to teach Paul's Doctrine..

Ask me anytime.. @Episkopos , as thats why im on "christian" forums...

= Paul said the "commandment came".. yet, The commandment came (the 10) with Moses, which was given 1471 yrs before Paul was born.
Paul said the commandment came....and "I died".. yet the "commandments and law" were given 1471 yrs before Paul was born, so how did they come to Paul . suddenly, and he never states when........

Now.....Dont try to explain that one @Episkopos..... as its not in your world of commentaries., or "Hebrew" Texts.

1.) So, lets keep going with Paul's teaching, as in Rom 7 Paul talks about "that which i want to do i can't", and that is Paul teaching us what happens when we try of ourselves to stop sinning.
This is .. "The power of the LAW is sin"... "The Law is the power of Sin" "The law empowers you to SIn'...

2.) Therefore, Paul teaches us that the Law is our "Schoolmaster to lead us to Christ".. to bring us to The Cross, so that Christ can "redeem us from the Curse of the Law"... and put us......>>"not under the Law........but under GRACE"//

3.) See, Paul was finding out that once he tried to Keep the Law and Commandments, then that POWER OF SIN, that is caused by the LAW became His PROBLEM., as it is for all who try to keep law and commandments to try to be righteous...

4.) So, those who do this ARE.......>>Paul said......>>"being IGNORANT of Christ's Righteousness, they go about trying to establish their OWN Righteousness, " that is of the law, and commandments..

5.) So, that is the '"state" of the "self righteous" who are "in the FLESH" and "Fallen from Grace" as Paul describes the LEGALIST.., and some of those who are on this forum.

A.) Then Paul shows us how to get out of that,.. wrong believing.

AA.) He shows us that "we are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE".. and = "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the LAW".

Now, Reader.. HERETICS, will try to put you back under "THE LAW"...

AAA.) But Jesus has "redeemed us".......from that........ because.. "Christ is the END of the LAW for Righteousness, to every one who BELIEVES"

A.) So, when the BELIEVER Get's this REVELATiON that is Paul's Doctrine, and they begin to understand who they have become as "made righteous".. as "The Righteousness of GOD.. .in Christ...((FOR ETERNITY)) then they will find the Power of Christ that produces this as their DISCIPLESHIP.., as they are not walking in God's Grace, at all times.

This is REAL FAITH.

= "Christ ALWAYS GIVES.... ME.. .The Victory" over the world, the flesh, and the devil.

I rest my case. All twaddle...no reference at all to "sin revived and I died". Face it...you have no understanding of "Pauline" doctrine.

But those who you condescendingly call "readers" can judge that lack for themselves. That's the beauty of the forum.

Deviation from the truth is not sound doctrine.

 

[Ritajanice]

Is this about a works religion of human effort? Or about the need to seek God for His visitation and empowering?

God will empower us indeed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is this about a works religion of human effort? Or about the need to seek God for His visitation and empowering?

I just asked a question. What started this whole conversation between Jesus and the jews.

Can you answer or are you afraid?

 

[Behold]

..no reference at all to "sin revived and I died".

Yes, i actually described that in Paul's situation, that He explains as "That which i would do i cant". In Romans 7
Then Paul goes on to write Galatians and Philippians and He reveals more of the Teaching that culminates, also in Corinthians.

See, Paul didnt write just one letter...... and he would teach a Doctrine, using more than one Letter, as these letters were sent around to all the Churches..
Even Peter would eventually Get Paul's Letters when Peter was in Rome.
Peter said that Paul's Letters are equal to the TORAH. (Old Testament). they are : "Scripture"., .. and He was right.. as Paul's letters became most of the NT Epistles, and "Church Doctrine".

 

[Episkopos]

God will empower us indeed.

When we seek Him with all our heart, not relying on our own understanding.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God will empower us indeed.

Which has nothing to do with the question I asked both of you.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, i actually described that in Paul's situation, that He explains as "That which i would do i cant".

No...that doesn't describe why Paul uses the word "die" at all. You are deviating again. How can sin revive so that he dies???

A simple explanation will suffice. No insults will suffice either.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When we seek Him with all our heart, not relying on our own understanding.

Can you answer the question?

Its mazing how people of all kinds of views think they hear from God.

There has to be some sort of verification too so we can discern who is speaking of God and who is not (or to even test our own belief) . what do you think that is?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No...that doesn't describe why Paul uses the word "die" at all. You are deviating again. How can sin revive so that he dies???

A simple explanation will suffice.

Its simple really

if there is no law. You can;t hold me in court and say, This is the charge against you,. Here is the panalty

But when there is a law. Then they have a charge against you that can be used. and a punishment that can be read.

The law said thou shalt not covent

if there is no law. you can covet all you want, You can not legally be charged

if there is a law. You can legally be charged. And them be judged guilty and a punishment can be issued (the wage of sin is death)

hence when the law came, sin revived and I died.. (because the wage of sin is death)

 

[Behold]

When we seek Him with all our heart, not relying on our own understanding.

If you were truly doing that, you would have been told by the Holy Spriit that your are not to teach that The Bible is "man made agenda".

And if you were doing what you said in your post, you would not be on a "christian" forum, denying that Jesus's Blood and Death, (The Cross) is "not about forgiveness".

If you were truly doing what you said in your post, then you would not be a "Calvinist".., you would hate it, and deny it., instead.

 

[Ritajanice]

When we seek Him with all our heart, not relying on our own understanding.

Wow!...Wow!!..Wow!!....exactly Epi...such a strong post , it’s all in the wording ....what a heart spirit revelation, thank you Brother....Praise God!!!

Imo , there’s the rub , relying on their own understanding...I can ignore those now, nothing whatsoever edifying in their posts...just relying “ on their own understanding “!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The error of SO MANY...is that they think they can improve themselves into putting on Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. He is NOT the Author and we finish the job gradually. We have to go to Jesus to finish what He started.

Paul rebuked the Galatians for trying to improve themselves gradually. A miracle is just that. It's something we can't do of ourselves.

Having begun in the Spirit...

He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are you born of the Spirit? Good! A miracle has taken place. Now to fulfill that calling you need to go to God for the full measure of grace and put on the New Man. A new miracle! People get one miracle and like the 9 lepers don't return to Jesus.

So there is a great misunderstanding in treating the calling in Christ as if it was a religion to believe in to improve oneself into.

Faith is ALWAYS about the impossible. Beliefs makes things common and carnal.

I don’t know epi. I hear the difference in Romans between the woman bound to her husband as long as he lives, so if she marries another she is called an adulterous. And the woman who is free(by the body of Christ) to bear Fruit unto God. Same as Number 5 and the law of Jealousies. Same as looking for an angry Judge. Or Christ. I don’t have all the answers… I get not wanting people to go back into the bondage of death. You may say …no they were never out of bondage. I’m referring to Paul saying they had begun in the Spirit…asking do you go back now to that you know to be death?

 

[Behold]

. How can sin revive so that he dies???

Ok, thanks for the question.


Well,....if Paul dies, then why is he able to keep teaching many more years through 12 more Epistles?

And if you read Philippians, Paul said He was "blameless in the LAW"... so, =to be "blameless" He would have had to know what the law was, and still he was Blameless..

So, the DEATH, was what He refers to as "dung".. in Philippians.

It is the issue of all who try by "self righteousness" to attain Righteousness that only God can give through the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

See, Paul "got the revelation" that "even tho im blameless in the LAW", something is still wrong...

So, what do i do about that? Is what Paul is teaching us...

He said....>>>>"to be found in Christ,"' "Having His Righteousness"", being now 'made righteous"... as this is the only Righteousness that a sinner can RECEIVE".. from God, as "The Gift of Salvation"., that is "The Gift of Righteousness"

 

[Episkopos]

Its simple really

if there is no law. You can;t hold me in court and say, This is the charge against you,. Here is the panalty

But when there is a law. Then they have a charge against you that can be used. and a punishment that can be read.

The law said thou shalt not covent

if there is no law. you can covet all you want, You can not legally be charged

if there is a law. You can legally be charged. And them be judged guilty and a punishment can be issued (the wage of sin is death)

hence when the law came, sin revived and I died.. (because the wage of sin is death)

But Paul's testimony is not that there is no law, but that there is a law and sin revived in him and he "died". Look it up. What does that mean he "died"

But you are on the right track at the end...the wages of sin is death...whether one is freed from the law or not. A law doesn't change.

Lawless one will say that the law only applies to non-believers...which is the biggest lie ever. These are dead in their sins as they claim to be as righteous as God. No shame at all. But shame is their eternal inheritance who do such things.