The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Timtofly]

You cannot even show us a first rapture in Revelation, so how can you have a second rapture?

Where is your rapture in Revelation? You cannot either.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Regardless of you you're misunderstanding of the 50-50 teaching, what are the 5 virgins left to?

The antichrist.
They are martyred.
( the ones refusing the mark)
It says " every man woman and child whether free or Bond receives the mark"

 

[rebuilder 454]

What does this even mean? Are you unable to communicate clearly and coherently? It sure seems that way. Why try to debate when you have no communication skills whatsoever?


That's a lie and you know it. I'm talking about you and the comments that you make with no explanation behind them.


They are taken to Christ. Where? In the air, of course, as Paul taught in 1 Thess 4:14-17. What happens to those who are left behind?

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

So, scripture teaches that when the bridegroom, Jesus, comes, He will take His bride up to Himself and then destroy all unbelievers on the earth. What mortals does this leave on the earth for your tribulation that occurs after the supposed pre-trib rapture?


Is there a reason why you are so immature? Are you a child?


What are you even talking about? The references to 5 wise and foolish virgins and to one being taken and one left are not meant to imply that literally half will be taken and half will be left. It's simply portraying two different types of people with two different destinies without indicating what percentage of people will be part of each group.


The wise virgins represent true Christians. The church. The foolish virgins are people like those Jesus described here:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Compare to:

Matthew 25:11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ 12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ 13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

So, the foolish virgins are those who think they are Christians, but are not. They never fully committed and surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ, so they don't have a personal relationship with Him, which is why He tells them "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!".

Now, does He tell them to then go through a period of tribulation after telling them to go away from Him, as you believe? No, definitely not. In the parable immediately following that one, in Matthew 25:14-30, the man who Jesus gave one bag of gold (or one talent) is just like the foolish virgins. Observe...

Matthew 25:24 "Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

There you have it. Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see where Jesus will tell people, like the foolish virgins and the man with one bag of gold who did nothing with it to serve the Lord, to go. Into "darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". To hell, in other words. The lake of fire. Not into some imaginary time period of tribulation where they would have a second chance at salvation.


What is it that I don't get, Oh Wise One?


We have and I just did again. Are you ignoring our answers? Or lying and acting like we haven't answered? If you disagree with our answers, so be it, but to act like we haven't responded to your request. That's simply not true.


No, watch us laugh as you butcher the word of God beyond recognition.


You have no understanding of it whatsoever. Who are you to talk?

Aside from and dismissing all your little personal attacks, you have no answer to the 50-50.
QUOTE
"What are you even talking about? The references to 5 wise and foolish virgins and to one being taken and one left are not meant to imply that literally half will be taken and half will be left. It's simply portraying two different types of people with two different destinies without indicating what percentage of people will be part of each group"

It is like you are saying the Holy Spirit inspired words are a mispeak.
I stumbled on to that 50-50 dynamic by accident.
But it is so damaging to your deal , and why you go personal.
Nothing of your doctrine or some invented cleverness can get you out of the corner your doctrine painted you into.
Basically your deal is poorly thought out.
Show me any non pretrib teacher that can explain what the Holy Spirit declared in the "half taken".
It is hilarious to me, the frustration you are experienciis.,
Holy Spirit= "I will declare two side by side analogies where half are raptured."

You= "get that mess away from me."

Something so unbelievably simple.
But has your doctrine in ruin.

.....Will await your personal attacks .
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rethink this. John is writing this in around 90AD. He is saying, 5 are fallen. Part tense from his perspective. One is. Present tense from house perspective. One to come. Future from his perspective. That 7th one gives his power to the 8th, who in fact is one of the first 7. Sounds like a riddle, but the rise and fall of these kinds is written in blood across the pages of history. If you start at the right place, these things can be answered with more certainty then guessing at what is to come. History repeats. Prophecy is built on Daniel 2.

When I first became a Christian in the 1970s, the book of the time was The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay. All the Pentecostal preachers I knew at the time, personally, and in videos etc, taught the same theories, and promoted the book. Many other books by a variety of authors appeared in the following years. The Left Behind series is just one of many that have sprung up over the last 50 years or so. In the 70s, there were a few movies as well, and I would imagine the left behind movies, such I haven't seen, very similar. They are fictional, and based loosely in scripture, but with some extremely corrupt interpretations along with a lot of guesswork and cinematography to make them plausible. But the scriptures being used to justify the left behind theory, all of them, are references to the actual physical coming of Christ after the plagues, and He comes in time to rescue His people from the final death decrees pronounced upon them that refuse the mark of the beast. Ironically, futurists declare they know what the mark is, all the while being unable to identify who the beast is, because according to them, he/it isn't here yet. How is that even possible?

It also seems quite clear to me that most futurists are too proud to actually commit to the study and time to identify who the beast/Antichrist is from the scriptures, without referring to the fiction books of the prosperity preachers and money making false gospel Pharisees in the church.
The true Antichrist is revealed in the scripture. There are several posters here who can guide you guys into the truth. But you need to humble yourselves in order to see. And you need is to have a love for truth that goes beyond your cherished current mindsets. A love for truth regardless of where it leads. The Late Great Planet Earth was my second Bible. I believed it with a passion and used it for outreach, along with the Chick tracts that echoed similar sentiments, but came to my senses in the 90s and discovered a line of truth that harmonizes with history and with scripture...a line of truth within prophecy that answered all my gifts and questions, and filled in all the gaps that needed repairing in order for scripture to make sense. Futurism isn't the only hermeneutic for studying scripture. Broaden your understanding.

The truth, without conjecture, is available.

Since you are an expert. Produce in history the mark , the martyrs refusing it, and the antichrist who is world wide worshipped.
A bonus would be the 144k rsptured. The two witnesses raptured. And the jews raptured in rev14:14.
What of the flying scorpions? When was that reported?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Agree. Look at rebuilder454's post where he indicates that the foolish virgins are saved Christians, but somehow not part of the bride of Christ. What? Such a concept is not taught in scripture anywhere. Not even close. And then he says Jesus turns them away to face an imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary time period of tribulation. Again, not taught in scripture anywhere. Instead, scripture says such people will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. His interpretation of the parable is so far off base that it's just unbelievable.

The Corinthians were carnal.
Ahem...as in the 5 foolish virgins
Paul showcased 2 distinct groups of believers. Carnal vs on fire sold out and walking in the spirit.
You= " not taught in scripture".
The crowns are not given to all.
ONLY THOSE WORTHY.
"Crowns", Has NOTHING to so with salvation.

crowns = worthy vs unworthy.
The EXTRA oil, and lack of EXTRA oil is indeed a worthy vs unworthy game changer of the virgins parable.

See ,this is what we mist have: A basic understanding of THE COMPONENTS

THE COMPONENTS are a destroyer of false doctrine.

You guys have such little understanding of salvation vs rewards, you are now saying you think all without crowns are as your false belief of the 5 foolish virgins as unsaved heathens.
The parable VIVIDLY depicts the foolish as :
Virgins= equal , set apart, pure, undefiled, worthy.
Oil= equals the Holy Spirit.
Lamps= equals vessels, which we are
Light= what comes out of a believer.
Flame= we are flames of fire
Illumination= what we get from heaven, proceeds out of us.

You = nope we can see every heathen has the Holy Spirit, purity , light. And are vessels contains all those things. Plus every heathen is waiting for Jesus and sleeps with on fire believers.

Now you see my Job.
I report what the Bible says. And watch postribbers go against the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Now please note carefully what Jesus is saying here. First, the second coming will be affected in precisely the same way as the great flood. The unrighteous will not be aware of the signs of the times, they shall be living at ease, living life as normal with little or no thought of eternity, when they shall be taken all away.

Let us go to the parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. You will note that Luke adds a little more detail giving a slightly different perspective.

Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The people that Matthew says are taken away, Luke adds that they are destroyed. Thus the 'taken away' aspect or context of what Jesus is telling His disciples equates to death or destruction. This is borne out later in Luke's passage when the disciples ask Him, "where are they taken to?" Jesus answer concerning the gathering of eagles around the carcasse echoes the following:

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I am beginning to think that being left behind isn't such a bad alternative. But we shall see. We will now look at another passage and see how consistent Jesus is regarding the subject.

Matthew 13:24-30 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

A little later Jesus explains the parable to His disciples.

Matthew 13:37-42 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

So let us recap the main points:

• The second coming of Jesus Christ is in like manner as the great flood.
• The wicked, who in Noah's day were living their normal everyday lives in ignorance and sin, were all taken away by the flood (Matthew 24:39) therefore so also will the wicked be at the second coming.
• They are taken away to their ultimate death, or destruction. (Luke 17:27,29)
• The concept of the wicked being taken is repeated many times. (Matt. 24:39-41; Luke 17:34-36)
• The taking away or removal of the wicked to be destroyed comes before the gathering of the righteous.

Now, let me ask a question. In Noah's day, after the flood had removed the wicked from the face of the earth and destroyed them all, who was left behind?

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Who was it that was left behind when fire and brimstone fell from heaven and destroyed Sodom and the other cities of the plain? Was it not Lot and his two daughters?

At the end of the millennium, when the new Jerusalem is sitting on the ancient land of Israel and the saints inside, when the balls of fire fall from heaven and destroy the wicked surrounding the city, who's left behind? Have you appreciated a common thread running through all the above scenarios?

Now, to the parable of the 10 virgins. Simple really. All ten fell asleep. They got bored and tired of waiting for the Lord to come. They fell asleep. When they woke up with the urgency of the second coming being announced, 5 were unprepared. They had trusted in themselves. Grown complacent. Had no light, no power, and no time. They were locked out of heaven, and are similar to that group that the scriptures speak of elsewhere...having the form of godliness but denying the power. (2 Tim.3:1-5) Trusting in that they were righteous, had need of nothing, but in reality were miserable, poor, blind, and naked Revel.3:15-19). Boasting of their record, that they'd done miracles, spoke in tongues, went to church every Sunday and maybe every Sabbath, didn't drink or smoke and never cheated on their taxes. (Matt.7:21-23) But Jesus didn't know them. And presumably, they didn't know Him. All of those above are lost. Cast into the fire where there is weeping, wailing, and teeth grinding.
The two classes of watchers represent the two classes who profess to be waiting for their Lord. They are called virgins because they profess a pure faith. By the lamps is represented the word of God... The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. The class represented by the foolish virgins are not hypocrites. They have a regard for the truth, they have advocated the truth, they are attracted to those who believe the truth; but they lack one thing. Surrender to the working of the holy Spirit. They are not wholly sanctified. In
KJV Revelation 10:7 it says,
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
What is this mystery of God that is finished before the second coming? Paul explains here
KJV Colossians 1:26-27
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Christ in you. The answer to being found naked and poor and blind and miserable. The answer to being unsanctified. The answer to being complacent and luke warm. When Christ knocks on the door, answer it and let Him in. (Revel.3:20).

I know. Not very expert, but it's the best I got.

No
All 10 were "sanctified" or set apart. They are all virgins and described as such. Undeniably Christians.
The difference was the AMOUNT OF OIL.
That is ALL.
The AMOUNT of oil was the "worthy vs unworthy" GAME CHANGER.
BORN AGAIN Christians shut out.
That is Undeniable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Didn't you just say in your last post before this one that you wanted to discuss the topic without all of the crap?

Thank you for making my point cuz here you go again. Boy you got a real class act, lol.

If someone posts something completely nonsensical and unbiblical then I will point that out. Do you think it's okay for someone to post complete nonsense that clearly isn't taught anywhere in scripture without anyone pointing it out? Why are you so hypersensitive to criticism of nonsense?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Corinthians were carnal.
Ahem...as in the 5 foolish virgins
Paul showcased 2 distinct groups of believers. Carnal vs on fire sold out and walking in the spirit.
You= " not taught in scripture".
The crowns are not given to all.
ONLY THOSE WORTHY.
"Crowns", Has NOTHING to so with salvation.

crowns = worthy vs unworthy.
The EXTRA oil, and lack of EXTRA oil is indeed a worthy vs unworthy game changer of the virgins parable.

See ,this is what we mist have: A basic understanding of THE COMPONENTS

THE COMPONENTS are a destroyer of false doctrine.

You guys have such little understanding of salvation vs rewards, you are now saying you think all without crowns are as your false belief of the 5 foolish virgins as unsaved heathens.
The parable VIVIDLY depicts the foolish as :
Virgins= equal , set apart, pure, undefiled, worthy.
Oil= equals the Holy Spirit.
Lamps= equals vessels, which we are
Light= what comes out of a believer.
Flame= we are flames of fire
Illumination= what we get from heaven, proceeds out of us.

You = nope we can see every heathen has the Holy Spirit, purity , light. And are vessels contains all those things. Plus every heathen is waiting for Jesus and sleeps with on fire believers.

Now you see my Job.
I report what the Bible says. And watch postribbers go against the bible.

Did you miss my post where I pointed out that the foolish virgins are just like the person who was given one talent in the parable immediately following the parable of the ten virgins? What happened to him? Was he told to go away while being forced to deal with an Antichrist and years of tribulation? No. He was cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is what will happen to people like the foolish virgins when Jesus comes as well. You are not allowing scripture to interpret scripture. You are interpreting Matthew 25:1-13 in isolation without taking any other scripture into account.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No
All 10 were "sanctified" or set apart. They are all virgins and described as such. Undeniably Christians.
The difference was the AMOUNT OF OIL.
That is ALL.
The AMOUNT of oil was the "worthy vs unworthy" GAME CHANGER.
BORN AGAIN Christians shut out.
That is Undeniable.

Born again Christians shut out? Where is such a concept taught anywhere else in scripture? Nowhere! So, why would it be taught in Matthew 25:1-13? Why do you interpret that parable without taking any other scripture into account? Your interpretation of the parable contradicts a lot of other scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh that's just you sticking up for your one Parishioner for putting a dollar in your plate, lol.


Trying to be thick skinned about it? Just men talking? For real?

Ok, but you have to stop acting like wpm's puppy dog. Everytime he insults a member here you chime in with some profound nonsense and you guys go on for half a page. So you would have to agree with that at least.

Or no deal.

It's really not a wonder why you want to focus on insults (which are going in both directions) instead of just sticking to discussing scripture. There's a major difference between what WPM and I (and Brakelite) are doing and what you and other pretribs are doing. We are actually taking the time to break scripture down and show exactly how we interpret it and why. You are not doing that at all. Can you please start doing that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The one thing I try to never do, Timothy, is come up with an opinion entirely my own. If I do, then I know I'm on a colossal ego trip, thinking God only reveals stuff to me!

That's a wise approach. And, yet, look how many lone wolves there are on this forum who have views all to themselves. Timtofly is the most obvious example, but there are several others as well. How can they think that God reveals truth only to them? Can you even fathom how arrogant someone has to be in order to believe that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Don't even go there. You're describing yourself. The only thing I am doing is challenging your error, avoidance and attitude and you cannot handle that.

Is it any wonder why he doesn't take the time to address our points? He only wants to talk about insults (as if he isn't also doing that) and is using that as an excuse to avoid addressing our points and our questions.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where is your rapture in Revelation? You cannot either.

You asked a question and then foolishly claimed that he can't answer it without even giving him a chance to do so.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Aside from and dismissing all your little personal attacks, you have no answer to the 50-50.
QUOTE
"What are you even talking about? The references to 5 wise and foolish virgins and to one being taken and one left are not meant to imply that literally half will be taken and half will be left. It's simply portraying two different types of people with two different destinies without indicating what percentage of people will be part of each group"

It is like you are saying the Holy Spirit inspired words are a mispeak.
I stumbled on to that 50-50 dynamic by accident.
But it is so damaging to your deal , and why you go personal.
Nothing of your doctrine or some invented cleverness can get you out of the corner your doctrine painted you into.
Basically your deal is poorly thought out.
Show me any non pretrib teacher that can explain what the Holy Spirit declared in the "half taken".
It is hilarious to me, the frustration you are experienciis.,
Holy Spirit= "I will declare two side by side analogies where half are raptured."

You= "get that mess away from me."

Something so unbelievably simple.
But has your doctrine in ruin.

.....Will await your personal attacks .
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!

One of us broke the parable down in detail and used other scripture to help discern what it means. The other doesn't even attempt to do that and doesn't even attempt to address the other's points and instead talks about some "50-50 dynamic" that he can't even explain intelligibly. Can you guess which of us is which?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where does Genesis 1 mention tribulation and what is the duration. You must be king of the strawman.

Do you believe the tribulation is mentioned somewhere within 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9? Yes or no? Just looking for some clarification about what you believe.

 

[Timtofly]

How ludicrous! There are all kinds of believers mentioned in this period of God's wrath directed against unbelievers. You are creating a chronological timeline with each passing vision when it is not even indicated to be such. You are superimposing a sequence that is not specifically given--that is adding to the word of God!

Actually there are not any believers on earth, after the 6th Seal, and no elect after the 7th Trumpet. You impose a rapture just willy nilly because you read Jesus is coming on a white horse. That is not how Jesus left earth. So you are missing something because the Second Coming is not on a white horse but His feet descend to the Mount of Olives, just like He left.

In fact your amil allies in this alleged post trib return, do not even have Jesus on the earth, because there is no more an earth, nor people on it, as they are immediately tossed into the LOF. They claim Zechariah 14 happened in the first century.

How can you line up Zechariah 14 with Revelation 19?


"2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

No one is fleeing in Revelation 19, because all are dead.


"12 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

This is who dies at Mount Megiddo, not the Mount of Olives:

"18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."

How do you reconcile that the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great are killed here, with the point that at the actual Second Coming, people are fleeing from Jerusalem past Jesus standing on the Mount of Olives?

For one who claims Scripture needs to line up with Scripture, these two passages do not complement each other, nor are they that symbolic that they can be misinterpreted or misunderstood.

Does no one realize that Zechariah was written hundreds of years before Jesus even ascended from the Mount of Olives, so He could return in like manner, as Zechariah wrote? Jesus did not leave with any body, nor will He return to the Mount of Olives with anybody. Jesus is coming to deliver Isaiah, as stated in several places.

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This is still talking about Jesus on the earth, sitting as King, the Prince to come, ruling on earth. This will take place before those alive on the earth are killed at Armageddon.

People tend to go with something obvious, even though it does not match, just so they have something to believe, even if it is wrong.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You keep making sweeping statements like this yet fail to give any evidence to support your speculations. That is because it doesn't support your thesis. You have already admitted: you have zero support for a Pretrib rapture in Revelation.

Look at how his doctrine is based on highly debatable scripture such as the scripture that references 24 elders. We are not specifically told who the 24 elders are or represent, so that is left to speculation. Why anyone would base their doctrine on scripture like that instead of basing their doctrine on clear scripture is beyond me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's a parable. There is no actual meaning. A parable is a short fictitious story.

Obviously. We all know that. But, what do you think the parable in Matthew 22:1-14 is about?

 

[MA2444]

It's really not a wonder why you want to focus on insults (which are going in both directions) instead of just sticking to discussing scripture. There's a major difference between what WPM and I (and Brakelite) are doing and what you and other pretribs are doing. We are actually taking the time to break scripture down and show exactly how we interpret it and why. You are not doing that at all. Can you please start doing that?

I just got off the phone with your kindergarten teacher. Even tho she tried to dodge it, when asked directly she had to admit that yes, she was forced to mark your Report Card with a "doesnt work or play well with others" mark so I'm gonna pass on contuing a conversation about the rapture with you. I'm burnt out on tis topic.

 

[WPM]

The antichrist.
They are martyred.
( the ones refusing the mark)
It says " every man woman and child whether free or Bond receives the mark"

Destruction is what all the unsaved experience when Jesus comes. There are no survivors.

Antichrist is destroyed with the brightness of Jesus coming. So your theology is wrong.