The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Spiritual Israelite]

Half taken in mat 24 "before the flood"

What does this even mean? Are you unable to communicate clearly and coherently? It sure seems that way. Why try to debate when you have no communication skills whatsoever?

You = Jesus is blathering.

That's a lie and you know it. I'm talking about you and the comments that you make with no explanation behind them.

Half the virgins ( believers) taken in mat 25.

They are taken to Christ. Where? In the air, of course, as Paul taught in 1 Thess 4:14-17. What happens to those who are left behind?

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

So, scripture teaches that when the bridegroom, Jesus, comes, He will take His bride up to Himself and then destroy all unbelievers on the earth. What mortals does this leave on the earth for your tribulation that occurs after the supposed pre-trib rapture?

Psssst...Jesus, not me, just destroyed your doctrine.

Is there a reason why you are so immature? Are you a child?

Why? Because those two 50-50 divisions,spoken in the same breath, can not possibly be half the world's population.

What are you even talking about? The references to 5 wise and foolish virgins and to one being taken and one left are not meant to imply that literally half will be taken and half will be left. It's simply portraying two different types of people with two different destinies without indicating what percentage of people will be part of each group.

So I ask you guys to say who they are.

The wise virgins represent true Christians. The church. The foolish virgins are people like those Jesus described here:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Compare to:

Matthew 25:11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ 12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ 13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

So, the foolish virgins are those who think they are Christians, but are not. They never fully committed and surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ, so they don't have a personal relationship with Him, which is why He tells them "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!".

Now, does He tell them to then go through a period of tribulation after telling them to go away from Him, as you believe? No, definitely not. In the parable immediately following that one, in Matthew 25:14-30, the man who Jesus gave one bag of gold (or one talent) is just like the foolish virgins. Observe...

Matthew 25:24 "Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

There you have it. Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see where Jesus will tell people, like the foolish virgins and the man with one bag of gold who did nothing with it to serve the Lord, to go. Into "darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". To hell, in other words. The lake of fire. Not into some imaginary time period of tribulation where they would have a second chance at salvation.

You don't get it????

What is it that I don't get, Oh Wise One?

NONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER ME.
NONE OF YOU.

We have and I just did again. Are you ignoring our answers? Or lying and acting like we haven't answered? If you disagree with our answers, so be it, but to act like we haven't responded to your request. That's simply not true.

I report the word of God, , and watch postribbers get irate.

No, watch us laugh as you butcher the word of God beyond recognition.

Mat 25
So simple and easy like every single parable, but without illumination , without basic understanding , they cannot be understood. Every parable is like a mystery.

You have no understanding of it whatsoever. Who are you to talk?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now in this parable we have 10 virgins. So simple, so basic.

I'm glad you can recognize numbers. Congratulations.

"Virgins" are pure undefiled and set apart.

Even foolish ones? No. It's foolish to think so.

They are obviously, without a doubt ,Christian believers, saved saints of God. These virgins have oil lamps, light , and are waiting for Jesus.
All 10 obey the command of the angels to come out and wait.
The bridegroom is delayed.

The foolish virgins don't have enough oil. Only those with enough oil are true Christians. The wise virgins have the Holy Spirit and the foolish ones don't. That's why the foolish virgins don't have enough oil. They don't have the light of the Holy Spirit in them.

That's the period of time we're in.
Next the bridegroom actually appears.
And half the virgins, that have oil , trim their laps.
(That means they make them brighter. )

But the foolish have run out of oil. So they asked the wise to give them oil.
Oil represents the Holy Spirit every single time.

Hey, at least you got that right! I'm surprised.

(That's another simple basic no-brainer. )

Yet, I'm still surprised you got it right.

We see, in the book of acts, the Holy Spirit given via the laying on of hands by believers. In other words the anointing is transferable. (As we see in the book of Acts several times).
Paul received the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
(This is the foolish asking the wise for some of their oil).
Now you can tell this was a natural occurrence, because they said ," not at this time."
It was too late.
The wise needed the oil that they had.
So we see the difference between the wise and the foolish is only one thing, and that one thing is the oil.
When the groom comes he takes half the church.

How can someone be a Christian if they don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them? Why are you calling people without the Holy Spirit in them Christians? That's not what scripture teaches at all.

All are saved but not all are the bride.

This is absolute nonsense of the highest order. All saved Christians are part of His bride. Anyone who belongs to Christ is part of His bride because being part of His bride means you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And all saved people do. You are interpreting the parable in such a way that contradicts a great deal of scripture and you don't seem to even care about that.

We know it's the bride and we know it's the groom because it says it's the groom.
The Bible says the door is shut ,and the bride and the groom go into the marriage chamber. Those five foolish virgins are left behind. They face the Antichrist and are martyred right away. They are seen in heaven as the innumerable number that had dirty robes that needed washing. They are the foolish virgins the dirty ropes.

See above. You are not taking all scripture into account. Other scripture indicates that they will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Hell or the lake of fire. Not turned away to face some imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary period of time that occurs after the rapture. That is not taught in scripture at all. Not even close.

You will trample on every bit of this.

For good reason. It's nonsense.

Those care the components THAT MUST BE MUDDIED UP BY POSTRIBBERS

I clarified what the parable actually says. You butcher it without being careful that your interpretation of it lines up with the rest of scripture.

I think of you as a man of God with bad doctrine

I don't care what you think about me. I know you are a man of God with bad doctrine.

Anytime I do go personal it is pushback

Please. You make things personal all on your own. Who do you think you're fooling here?

Going personal is destructive to the debate.

Yet, you do it, anyway.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It doesn't have to be towards me personally. I never said that it was. It does show your attitude.



I know, it's over your head.



I know, it's over your head. I don't care what you believe. We waste each others time because we have different belief systems.

If we could just talk about scripture without all the other nonsense then people can learn something from our discussions even if we disagree, whether they learn something from you or from me. So, it can be worthwhile from that standpoint. I'm willing to discuss without the personal nonsense if you want. I can do that. But, when people make it personal I respond in kind. Maybe I shouldn't. But, I tend to do that. If we don't even start with that, then we don't need to worry about it.

 

[WPM]

What does this even mean? Are you unable to communicate clearly and coherently? It sure seems that way. Why try to debate when you have no communication skills whatsoever?


That's a lie and you know it. I'm talking about you and the comments that you make with no explanation behind them.


They are taken to Christ. Where? In the air, of course, as Paul taught in 1 Thess 4:14-17. What happens to those who are left behind?

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

So, scripture teaches that when the bridegroom, Jesus, comes, He will take His bride up to Himself and then destroy all unbelievers on the earth. What mortals does this leave on the earth for your tribulation that occurs after the supposed pre-trib rapture?


Is there a reason why you are so immature? Are you a child?


What are you even talking about? The references to 5 wise and foolish virgins and to one being taken and one left are not meant to imply that literally half will be taken and half will be left. It's simply portraying two different types of people with two different destinies without indicating what percentage of people will be part of each group.


The wise virgins represent true Christians. The church. The foolish virgins are people like those Jesus described here:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Compare to:

Matthew 25:11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ 12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ 13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

So, the foolish virgins are those who think they are Christians, but are not. They never fully committed and surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ, so they don't have a personal relationship with Him, which is why He tells them "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!".

Now, does He tell them to then go through a period of tribulation after telling them to go away from Him, as you believe? No, definitely not. In the parable immediately following that one, in Matthew 25:14-30, the man who Jesus gave one bag of gold (or one talent) is just like the foolish virgins. Observe...

Matthew 25:24 "Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

There you have it. Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see where Jesus will tell people, like the foolish virgins and the man with one bag of gold who did nothing with it to serve the Lord, to go. Into "darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". To hell, in other words. The lake of fire. Not into some imaginary time period of tribulation where they would have a second chance at salvation.


What is it that I don't get, Oh Wise One?


We have and I just did again. Are you ignoring our answers? Or lying and acting like we haven't answered? If you disagree with our answers, so be it, but to act like we haven't responded to your request. That's simply not true.


No, watch us laugh as you butcher the word of God beyond recognition.


You have no understanding of it whatsoever. Who are you to talk?

They make their theology out to be some mythical cryptic esoteric incomprehensible theory that can only be worked out by those who have read The Left Behind novels. It is the key to unlocking their doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They make their theology out to be some mythical cryptic esoteric incomprehensible theory that can only be worked out by those who have read The Left Behind novels. It is the key to unlocking their doctrine.

Agree. Look at rebuilder454's post where he indicates that the foolish virgins are saved Christians, but somehow not part of the bride of Christ. What? Such a concept is not taught in scripture anywhere. Not even close. And then he says Jesus turns them away to face an imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary time period of tribulation. Again, not taught in scripture anywhere. Instead, scripture says such people will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. His interpretation of the parable is so far off base that it's just unbelievable.

 

[WPM]

Agree. Look at rebuilder454's post where he indicates that the foolish virgins are saved Christians, but somehow not part of the bride of Christ. What? Such a concept is not taught in scripture anywhere. Not even close. And then he says Jesus turns them away to face an imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary time period of tribulation. Again, not taught in scripture anywhere. Instead, scripture says such people will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. His interpretation of the parable is so far off base that it's just unbelievable.

That is why so many people are abandoning it

 

[MA2444]

But he can support his beliefs with much clear Scripture.

Oh that's just you sticking up for your one Parishioner for putting a dollar in your plate, lol.

If we could just talk about scripture without all the other nonsense then people can learn something from our discussions even if we disagree, whether they learn something from you or from me. So, it can be worthwhile from that standpoint. I'm willing to discuss without the personal nonsense if you want. I can do that. But, when people make it personal I respond in kind. Maybe I shouldn't. But, I tend to do that. If we don't even start with that, then we don't need to worry about it.

Trying to be thick skinned about it? Just men talking? For real?

Ok, but you have to stop acting like wpm's puppy dog. Everytime he insults a member here you chime in with some profound nonsense and you guys go on for half a page. So you would have to agree with that at least.

Or no deal.

 

[MA2444]

Agree. Look at rebuilder454's post where he indicates that the foolish virgins are saved Christians, but somehow not part of the bride of Christ. What? Such a concept is not taught in scripture anywhere. Not even close. And then he says Jesus turns them away to face an imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary time period of tribulation. Again, not taught in scripture anywhere. Instead, scripture says such people will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. His interpretation of the parable is so far off base that it's just unbelievable.

Didn't you just say in your last post before this one that you wanted to discuss the topic without all of the crap?

Thank you for making my point cuz here you go again. Boy you got a real class act, lol.

 

[WPM]

Oh that's just you sticking up for your one Parishioner for putting a dollar in your plate, lol.


Trying to be thick skinned about it? Just men talking? For real?

Ok, but you have to stop acting like wpm's puppy dog. Everytime he insults a member here you chime in with some profound nonsense and you guys go on for half a page. So you would have to agree with that at least.

Or no deal.

Don't even go there. You're describing yourself. The only thing I am doing is challenging your error, avoidance and attitude and you cannot handle that.

 

[WPM]

Okay. I got to know. HOW MANY TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO TELL YOU I DON'T BELIEVE IN A 7 YEAR TRIBULATION before you get a clue.

From your responses I can tell you are retired or without a job, and you when you did work it was likely a manual labor position.

Where does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 mention "tribulation" and what is its duration according to that passage?

 

[covenantee]

Oh that's just you sticking up for your one Parishioner for putting a dollar in your plate, lol.

Add one more.

And add the entire historical true Christian Church for 17 centuries before Darby/Scofield.

 

[The Light]

Where does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 mention "tribulation" and what is its duration according to that passage?

Where does Genesis 1 mention tribulation and what is the duration. You must be king of the strawman.

 

[Timtofly]

649 and 650 remain unaddressed. Spiritual Jew addressed this in 694. All were avoided by you.

Neither posts proved those events are after any tribulation. They just explained your ongoing point of total destruction, not anything about what happens after a tribulation period. Are you saying no one dies during your alleged tribulation, but only gathered after the Tribulation.

 

[WPM]

Where does Genesis 1 mention tribulation and what is the duration. You must be king of the strawman.

When did i say Genesis 1 mentions a tribulation?

 

[Timtofly]

The "Beast" in Rev 13 is both a Kingdom and the leader over that Kingdom. I know this because the Beast is described as having 10 horns and 7 heads, the 10 horns representing 10 states and the 7 heads representing 7 leaders over those states.

So the Beast Kingdom consists of 10 kingdoms, as Dan 7 indicates. Rev 13 comes from Dan 7.

But we know the Beast is an individual leader, as well, because Dan 7 indicates that out of the 4th Kingdom emerges a Little Horn who will put down 3 of the leaders over these 10 states. He is therefore also shown to be an individual in Rev 13, 17, and elsewhere. He is identified as an individual along with the False Prophet....

Rev 19.20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Both the Beast and the False Prophet are individual leaders who preside over a larger empire, of sorts. The Beast is the "Antichrist" who John refers to as such, and who Paul referred to as the "Man of Sin."

This beast out of humanity (called the beast out of the sea) is the same 7 headed historical view as the dragon in chapter 13 and the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. The 7 heads represent Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, and the Ten Toes up until the Reformation. These first 5 have fallen, as in the past. The 6th head is the current world empire that has a mortal wound. The 7th head is Satan. The ten horns are 10 humans without a kingdom, but appear after the Second Coming.

The FP is the mouth at the point of the 7th Trumpet. I am not sure how you can plop Daniel 7 down into Revelation 13. Daniel never mentions that the fourth beast had 7 heads. If ten horns are significant in prophecy, it does not mean there is also an historical connection. The use of ten seems to be accepted as completeness or law and judgment. The ten commandments. The ten toes to complete the human anatomy. Ten horns at different times to show a complete kingdom state. There have been many opinions presented about Daniel 7, however you cannot just plop this 4th beast and call it the sea beast. The sea beast is historical, not a single end time entity. The dragon is not a single end time entity, but historical and the same 7 heads, and ten horns as the sea beast. The scarlet colored beast is the same historical configuration, except now we see the end of the 6th kingdom, and the introduction of a 7th and 8th in rapid succession.

The term beast in Revelation is not even addressing the same entity throughout Revelation, but can apply to several different symbolic presentations. Beast represent beings in heaven before the throne. Beast represents historical humanity. Beast represents even Satan. Many may disagree, but even the image brought to life is referenced as a Beast. So still not seeing your singled out verse in Revelation talking specifically about this alleged antichrist.

Paul was referring to Satan as the "man of sin". Remember that an angel can take on the form of a man.


The sea beast was not thrown into the LOF at Armageddon. Saying the sea beast is both an individual man and an entire kingdom, cannot work. A kingdom has always had both saved and lost in them. Only a horn can be interpreted as a single individual.

Daniel 7, about the 4th beast could have been Rome, or part of some modern interpretation. However that would not just automatically assume the sea beast is that 4th beast. One of the heads of the sea beast was Rome, but now no longer a valid kingdom.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This beast out of humanity (called the beast out of the sea) is the same 7 headed historical view as the dragon in chapter 13 and the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17. The 7 heads represent Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, and the Ten Toes up until the Reformation. These first 5 have fallen, as in the past. The 6th head is the current world empire that has a mortal wound. The 7th head is Satan. The ten horns are 10 humans without a kingdom, but appear after the Second Coming.

The one thing I try to never do, Timothy, is come up with an opinion entirely my own. If I do, then I know I'm on a colossal ego trip, thinking God only reveals stuff to me!

So what I try to do is get a feel for how God has showed things to Christians down through the ages. They prayed for answers too!

And what I find is that whether they're wrong or right, their historical conditions impacted how they looked at things. But generally, they had a reason for seeing things the way they did. But if *nobody* sees things the way you do, you should abandon ship as soon as possible!

The FP is the mouth at the point of the 7th Trumpet.

The False Prophet does not follow the 7th Trumpet--only in the narrative. The 7th Trumpet is the conclusion of one vision, and it represents the end of the age and the coming of Christ's Kingdom. The False Prophet precedes the end of the age by at least 3.5 years!

I am not sure how you can plop Daniel 7 down into Revelation 13.

The language of the Beast originates in Dan 7, which is the only prophecy that gives substantial information about the Antichrist in the Old Testament. The 4th Beast is the last in succession and the last Kingdom in history before Christ's Kingdom comes. It was the Roman Empire, indicating that the Roman Kingdom is one and the same as the European Kingdom which has existed all through NT history, even though it broke up into a number of states, East and West Europe.

Daniel never mentions that the fourth beast had 7 heads.

Daniel indicates 10 kings are reduced by 3 kings when the Little Horn, the Antichrist, defeats them. Simple math will tell you that leaves 7 kings, which Rev 13 calls "10 horns and 7 heads."

Paul was referring to Satan as the "man of sin". Remember that an angel can take on the form of a man.

Paul never called Satan the "man of sin," and never identified the "man of sin" as Satan.

 

[Brakelite]

Interesting you accept this truth. And I couldn't agree with you more.

How is it you don't understand that the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath is 1 year long?

The tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal and then the 1-year Day of the Lord begins.


Jesus died in 30AD

I look to the future because there are 7 kings. 5 have fallen, one is and one is yet to come. The 7th king will give His power to the eighth king............who is of the 7.

This has yet to take place.

Rethink this. John is writing this in around 90AD. He is saying, 5 are fallen. Part tense from his perspective. One is. Present tense from house perspective. One to come. Future from his perspective. That 7th one gives his power to the 8th, who in fact is one of the first 7. Sounds like a riddle, but the rise and fall of these kinds is written in blood across the pages of history. If you start at the right place, these things can be answered with more certainty then guessing at what is to come. History repeats. Prophecy is built on Daniel 2.

They make their theology out to be some mythical cryptic esoteric incomprehensible theory that can only be worked out by those who have read The Left Behind novels. It is the key to unlocking their doctrine.

When I first became a Christian in the 1970s, the book of the time was The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay. All the Pentecostal preachers I knew at the time, personally, and in videos etc, taught the same theories, and promoted the book. Many other books by a variety of authors appeared in the following years. The Left Behind series is just one of many that have sprung up over the last 50 years or so. In the 70s, there were a few movies as well, and I would imagine the left behind movies, such I haven't seen, very similar. They are fictional, and based loosely in scripture, but with some extremely corrupt interpretations along with a lot of guesswork and cinematography to make them plausible. But the scriptures being used to justify the left behind theory, all of them, are references to the actual physical coming of Christ after the plagues, and He comes in time to rescue His people from the final death decrees pronounced upon them that refuse the mark of the beast. Ironically, futurists declare they know what the mark is, all the while being unable to identify who the beast is, because according to them, he/it isn't here yet. How is that even possible?

It also seems quite clear to me that most futurists are too proud to actually commit to the study and time to identify who the beast/Antichrist is from the scriptures, without referring to the fiction books of the prosperity preachers and money making false gospel Pharisees in the church.
The true Antichrist is revealed in the scripture. There are several posters here who can guide you guys into the truth. But you need to humble yourselves in order to see. And you need is to have a love for truth that goes beyond your cherished current mindsets. A love for truth regardless of where it leads. The Late Great Planet Earth was my second Bible. I believed it with a passion and used it for outreach, along with the Chick tracts that echoed similar sentiments, but came to my senses in the 90s and discovered a line of truth that harmonizes with history and with scripture...a line of truth within prophecy that answered all my gifts and questions, and filled in all the gaps that needed repairing in order for scripture to make sense. Futurism isn't the only hermeneutic for studying scripture. Broaden your understanding.

The truth, without conjecture, is available.

 

[The Light]

Rethink this. John is writing this in around 90AD. He is saying, 5 are fallen. Part tense from his perspective. One is. Present tense from house perspective. One to come. Future from his perspective. That 7th one gives his power to the 8th, who in fact is one of the first 7. Sounds like a riddle, but the rise and fall of these kinds is written in blood across the pages of history. If you start at the right place, these things can be answered with more certainty then guessing at what is to come. History repeats. Prophecy is built on Daniel 2.

I don't need to rethink it. I know John wrote it and 5 had fallen before his time. 1 is, and one to come who is the 7th king. The seventh king gives His power to the eighth king. So we are both on the same page................I think.

When I first became a Christian in the 1970s, the book of the time was The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsay. All the Pentecostal preachers I knew at the time, personally, and in videos etc, taught the same theories, and promoted the book. Many other books by a variety of authors appeared in the following years. The Left Behind series is just one of many that have sprung up over the last 50 years or so. In the 70s, there were a few movies as well, and I would imagine the left behind movies, such I haven't seen, very similar. They are fictional, and based loosely in scripture, but with some extremely corrupt interpretations along with a lot of guesswork and cinematography to make them plausible.

Same story.

But the scriptures being used to justify the left behind theory, all of them, are references to the actual physical coming of Christ after the plagues, and He comes in time to rescue His people from the final death decrees pronounced upon them that refuse the mark of the beast. Ironically, futurists declare they know what the mark is, all the while being unable to identify who the beast is, because according to them, he/it isn't here yet. How is that even possible?

He is not here yet. There are two beasts. The beast who was and is not and will come again (beast of the sea) and the beast of the earth.
I don't believe you know who either of these are. But I'm willing to listen.

It also seems quite clear to me that most futurists are too proud to actually commit to the study and time to identify who the beast/Antichrist is from the scriptures, without referring to the fiction books of the prosperity preachers and money making false gospel Pharisees in the church.
The true Antichrist is revealed in the scripture.

There are many Antichrists. However, there is one we can call THE Antichrist as he is the man of sin.

If you think you know who the Antichrist is I'm all ears. What is your opinion based on scripture.

There are several posters here who can guide you guys into the truth.

I am all ears. But I have yet to see anyone with understanding.

But you need to humble yourselves in order to see. And you need is to have a love for truth that goes beyond your cherished current mindsets. A love for truth regardless of where it leads.

I don't have a doctrine or agenda. My doctrine is what the scripture says.

The Late Great Planet Earth was my second Bible. I believed it with a passion and used it for outreach, along with the Chick tracts that echoed similar sentiments, but came to my senses in the 90s and discovered a line of truth that harmonizes with history and with scripture...a line of truth within prophecy that answered all my gifts and questions, and filled in all the gaps that needed repairing in order for scripture to make sense. Futurism isn't the only hermeneutic for studying scripture. Broaden your understanding.

The truth, without conjecture, is available.

No offense Brother, but it took me about 15 minutes to realize the preterist way was not the answer.

I have always been a futurists. There is too much proof to be anything else. Thru my studies I became a firm believer of a post trib rapture. Some would call it a pre wrath rapture as the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins. Later I realized there are two raptures and one is pre trib.

 

[Brakelite]

No offense Brother, but it took me about 15 minutes to realize the preterist way was not the answer.

No offence taken. I'm neither preterist or futurist.

 

[The Light]

No offence taken. I'm neither preterist or futurist.

Are you able to answer my questions regarding the Antichrist?