The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Brakelite]

Way off.
There has never been an ac demanding a mark, or prohibition of buy/ sell without a mark.
Historicist view is one of the weakest.

You are revealing your lack of understanding of what historicism actually is. It isn't preterism which has all prophecy completed. Historicism is a hermeneutic that recognises prophecy as beginning to be fulfilled from the time it was given. Daniel 2,7,8,9, and 11 are prime examples of this. But not all the prophecy is finished. As you say, there are some things not yet fulfilled, like the mark of the beast.
There is much you do not understand or appreciate about prophecy, and where we stand in the stream of time.
You do not have the experience or knowledge to justify your arrogance by putting others down and insulting their intelligence. You reveal your immaturity and lack of wisdom and understanding.

 

[WPM]

Again..Daniel 9. Focus on the last four verses.

Talk about going in circles. We already established you have nothing in Daniel 9.

1. Where is there any mention of the Church in Daniel 9.
2. Where is a tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9?
3. Where is a 7-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9?
4. Where is the second coming of Christ mentioned and Daniel 9?
5. Where is the rapture mentioned in Daniel 9?
6. Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9?
7. Where in Daniel 9 does it tell us to sever the last 7 years off from this harmonious prophecy relating to Christ’s 1st Coming and propel it 2,000 years into the unknown?
8. Where is antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9?
9. Where does it say that antichrist will make a peace covenant with Israel for 7 years in Daniel 9?
10. Where does it say that antichrist will break a peace covenant with Israel in Daniel 9?
11. Where are the tribulation saints mentioned in Daniel 9?
12. Where does it mention the rebuilding of a third temple

 

[MA2444]

Your argument is non-existent. Address the biblical evidence instead of your usual avoidance and ad hominem. Scripture says nothing about (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ. You know it. You all have admitted it.

Blah Blah Blah Dude. Are you a glitching Bot?

Because this is exactly what I meant, lol.

You can't stand losing a debate. You refuse to be teachable in the least. Are you sure that you're really a Pastor? You never said that I dont think. I don't believe it. I see no Pastor qualities at all. No hard feelings, but...by their fruits you will know them and you de one who has contributed the least amount of sanity to this thread! Come, let us reason together....WPM says, What's reason? In every post of yours!

If you spent half as much time reading your Bible as you do bashing everything online, then you would be a Pastor and you would learn. Give the Holy Spirit the time to teach you by reading your Bible!

 

[Brakelite]

The second advent is when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven, Armageddon happens, and Jesus sets His feet on the mount of Olives. Then sets up the millennial kingdom.

I disagree. That particular event, when Jesus returns with the saints inside the new Jerusalem takes place at the end of the millennium.

Well, regardless of whether you are able to see the pretrib rapture, you should be able see the difference between the second coming and the second advent.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation of those days which is the great tribulation. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect. All return to heaven for the marriage supper.

The second advent is when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven, Armageddon happens, and Jesus sets His feet on the mount of Olives. Then sets up the millennial kingdom.

As you say, Jesus at the second coming will not even touch Israel. We meet the Lord in the air, and so will we always be with Him. The wicked dead are not raised at the second coming. They sleep in death until the end of the millennium when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, with all the saints and the Lord inside, and settles on that area we know as Israel. Then the wicked are raised to face their judgement. Fire then comes down and destroys every last one of them including Satan and all his demons. The earth is cleansed in that fire from every vestige of sin and environmental pollution. A blank canvas for recreation...Then will Israel...us... Inherit the earth. A new earth. And a new heaven.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are revealing your lack of understanding of what historicism actually is. It isn't preterism which has all prophecy completed. Historicism is a hermeneutic that recognises prophecy as beginning to be fulfilled from the time it was given. Daniel 2,7,8,9, and 11 are prime examples of this. But not all the prophecy is finished. As you say, there are some things not yet fulfilled, like the mark of the beast.
There is much you do not understand or appreciate about prophecy, and where we stand in the stream of time.
You do not have the experience or knowledge to justify your arrogance by putting others down and insulting their intelligence. You reveal your immaturity and lack of wisdom and understanding.

No mark
No prohibitive buying / selling
No A C
No brainer.
Your deal is way off

No need for your arrogant put downs

 

[rebuilder 454]

You have nothing to bring to the table apart from avoidance and insults.

The parable of the 10 virgins has nothing to do with 50% being saved and 50% not within the Church. It has nothing to do with 50% or professors being genuine and 50% not. It has equally nothing to do with the percentage of society that will know Christ when He comes. The 50/50 breakdown is an earthly illustration relating to preparedness; some were wise and prepared others were foolish and were caught on. This is what will happen when Jesus comes. Remember, the broad road holds the vast bulk of mankind. There are few on the narrow road. This truth is played out throughout Scripture.

...and yet Jesus used 50% twice in mat24 and 25.

So the 50 50 can not possibly fit that the ones take/ left are 50 % righteous.
Impossible.
Or, are you saying Jesus was way off and did not know half the world saved is a lie????

Psssst...the virgins parable is illustrating WORTHY VS UNWORTHY

The ONLY DIFFERENCE is the oil
That is the only difference.

 

[WPM]

Blah Blah Blah Dude. Are you a glitching Bot?

Because this is exactly what I meant, lol.

You can't stand losing a debate. You refuse to be teachable in the least. Are you sure that you're really a Pastor? You never said that I dont think. I don't believe it. I see no Pastor qualities at all. No hard feelings, but...by their fruits you will know them and you de one who has contributed the least amount of sanity to this thread! Come, let us reason together....WPM says, What's reason? In every post of yours!

If you spent half as much time reading your Bible as you do bashing everything online, then you would be a Pastor and you would learn. Give the Holy Spirit the time to teach you by reading your Bible!

I understand why you are so frustrated, you have absolutely nothing to bring to the table. Pretrib has left you holding the baby.

 

[WPM]

...and yet Jesus used 50% twice in mat24 and 25.

So the 50 50 can not possibly fit that the ones take/ left are 50 % righteous.
Impossible.
Or, are you saying Jesus was way off and did not know half the world saved is a lie????

Psssst...the virgins parable is illustrating WORTHY VS UNWORTHY

The ONLY DIFFERENCE is the oil
That is the only difference.

Does the 99/1 ratio of the sheep wandering also apply? 1% wander?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your argument is non-existent. Address the biblical evidence instead of your usual avoidance and ad hominem. Scripture says nothing about (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ. You know it. You all have admitted it.

Mat 24
Before the flood one taken , one left.
Pretrib. Half of a group is taken

In this group, they all are side,by side

In a bed sleeping together
Working side by side.
Walking in a field together.

The only thing that fits is half the church.
Neither you, nor any postribber has ever honestly unpacked it.
Way too painful.

 

[WPM]

The ONLY DIFFERENCE is the oil
That is the only difference.

I have already addressed this, and you have already avoided this. That is what you do. This is what Pretrib produces.

The Holy Ghost is not in lamps. That is ridiculous! The Holy Spirit is in lives. You're not remotely getting the meaning of this parable. Your teachers have taught you wrong. You're forcing your theology into it because you have nothing to support your theories. Where is your seven year tribulation after this event? Nowhere! You have to force it into the sacred text! This is how desperate you are getting! You obviously have nothing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Does the 99/1 ratio of the sheep wandering also apply? 1% wander?

Yes it indirectly applies.
It points to someone that can agree with Jesus's declaration of a 50-50 dynamic.
Look at the confusion postribbers have over Jesus declaration.
Knocks a hole in your doctrine a ship can sail through

 

[WPM]

Mat 24
Before the flood one taken , one left.
Pretrib. Half of a group is taken

In this group, they all are side,by side

In a bed sleeping together
Working side by side.
Walking in a field together.

The only thing that fits is half the church.
Neither you, nor any postribber has ever honestly unpacked it.
Way too painful.

I have already addressed this and you have already avoided this. I will try again. Not because you or some Pretribb will or can answer this or prove Pretrib but to expose the error of Pretrib. It has zero proof-texts. Your silence is deafening.

Left for what? Destruction or a 7-year trib? Are you so blinded by this false Jesuit doctrine that you cannot see? Do you even want to see?
What then happens to those left behind?

A. The Lord’s solemn warning in the midst of the aforementioned narrative confirms the answer, and is in complete agreement with Christ’s unambiguous preceding comments in the same chapter, and every other explicit passage in Scripture. He makes it abundantly clear that instant and complete destruction befalls the wicked. He solemnly counsels the disciples, “Remember Lot's wife.”

Left for what? Utter destruction. All men will either be caught up or caught on. There is no 3rd group. This does not prove a future millennium.

Remember Lot's

Q. Why must we “remember Lot's wife”? What befell her?

She got caught in the escape out of Sodom because her heart was still there. Despite being fully aware of the impending destruction, Lot's wife’s heart was located in Sodom and towards the awful iniquity; this was despite the fact that she also desired to be with the people of God. Notwithstanding, Genesis 19:26 says of Lot, “his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Her foolish refusal to once-and-for-all turn her back on Sodom caused her to be instantly and completely destroyed. Through her un-preparedness, she was immediately cast into a lost hell – damned and doomed for all eternity – without hope and without Christ.

What Christ is therefore warning in this reading is this: ‘Remember Lot's wife because she was found wanting on the day when God finally poured out His judgment upon the wicked; be warned because His Second coming will similarly expose the heart of every hypocrite, although on this occasion it will be for the very final time. Those left behind will face the same punishment as Lot’s wife – total destruction.

When Noah left the world of his day and entered into the ark there were many left lying in beds and grinding at mills to receive the wrath of God and therefore destruction. The same happened in Lot's day. The same will happen at Christ's Coming.

After Christ described the destruction that accompanies His return, He talks about one being rescued the other being destroyed. Jesus tells us that those left behind will suffer the same total, immediate and awful doom that Noah's world and Sodom suffered in their day (Luke 17). Once the ark door closes that is it. It is too late.

 

[WPM]

Yes it indirectly applies.
It points to someone that can agree with Jesus's declaration of a 50-50 dynamic.
Look at the confusion postribbers have over Jesus declaration.
Knocks a hole in your doctrine a ship can sail through

LOL. This is what Pretrib produces - folly! You do not get it do you? You do not understand what parables actually are.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have already addressed this, and you have already avoided this. That is what you do. This is what Pretrib produces.

The Holy Ghost is not in lamps. That is ridiculous! The Holy Spirit is in lives. You're not remotely getting the meaning of this parable. Your teachers have taught you wrong. You're forcing your theology into it because you have nothing to support your theories. Where is your seven year tribulation after this event? Nowhere! You have to force it into the sacred text! This is how desperate you are getting! You obviously have nothing.

I just addressed it.
Stop wasting everyone's time with ignorance.
Lamps are vessels.
We are vessels.
Holy Spirit lives inside believers. ...ahem,vessels.
Oil in lamps is Holy Spirit in believers.
The flame is light.
Believers have illumination or light coming from them.
The oil is the anointing that was on David, Sampson, and Elijah.
The anointing on a believer is the same power/anointing/oil, coming from the apostles.
The anointing is the power that Paul and others had to do miracles.
The oil in the Virgin parable absolutely represents the Holy Spirit. If you can't see that then I don't I don't know what you think you're about. I mean this is just flat out basic kindergarten believer understanding 101

 

[WPM]

I just addressed it.
Stop wasting everyone's time with ignorance.
Lamps are vessels.
We are vessels.
Holy Spirit lives inside believers. ...ahem,vessels.
Oil in lamps is Holy Spirit in believers.
The flame is light.
Believers have illumination or light coming from them.
The oil is the anointing that was on David, Sampson, and Elijah.
The anointing on a believer is the same power/anointing/oil, coming from the apostles.
The anointing is the power that Paul and others had to do miracles.
The oil in the Virgin parable absolutely represents the Holy Spirit. If you can't see that then I don't I don't know what you think you're about. I mean this is just flat out basic kindergarten believer understanding 101

1. Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
2. Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
3. Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have already addressed this and you have already avoided this. I will try again. Not because you or some Pretribb will or can answer this or prove Pretrib but to expose the error of Pretrib. It has zero proof-texts. Your silence is deafening.

Left for what? Destruction or a 7-year trib? Are you so blinded by this false Jesuit doctrine that you cannot see? Do you even want to see?
What then happens to those left behind?

A. The Lord’s solemn warning in the midst of the aforementioned narrative confirms the answer, and is in complete agreement with Christ’s unambiguous preceding comments in the same chapter, and every other explicit passage in Scripture. He makes it abundantly clear that instant and complete destruction befalls the wicked. He solemnly counsels the disciples, “Remember Lot's wife.”

Left for what? Utter destruction. All men will either be caught up or caught on. There is no 3rd group. This does not prove a future millennium.

Remember Lot's

Q. Why must we “remember Lot's wife”? What befell her?

She got caught in the escape out of Sodom because her heart was still there. Despite being fully aware of the impending destruction, Lot's wife’s heart was located in Sodom and towards the awful iniquity; this was despite the fact that she also desired to be with the people of God. Notwithstanding, Genesis 19:26 says of Lot, “his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Her foolish refusal to once-and-for-all turn her back on Sodom caused her to be instantly and completely destroyed. Through her un-preparedness, she was immediately cast into a lost hell – damned and doomed for all eternity – without hope and without Christ.

What Christ is therefore warning in this reading is this: ‘Remember Lot's wife because she was found wanting on the day when God finally poured out His judgment upon the wicked; be warned because His Second coming will similarly expose the heart of every hypocrite, although on this occasion it will be for the very final time. Those left behind will face the same punishment as Lot’s wife – total destruction.

When Noah left the world of his day and entered into the ark there were many left lying in beds and grinding at mills to receive the wrath of God and therefore destruction. The same happened in Lot's day. The same will happen at Christ's Coming.

After Christ described the destruction that accompanies His return, He talks about one being rescued the other being destroyed. Jesus tells us that those left behind will suffer the same total, immediate and awful doom that Noah's world and Sodom suffered in their day (Luke 17). Once the ark door closes that is it. It is too late.

Nope.
Nowhere did you address " before the flood"
Jesus went on to actually TELL YOU that The setting IS normal like, peacetime. And commerce.
One taken, And one left..... BEFORE THE TRIB/FLOOD.
Your entire explanation fails in that you LEFT OUT the setting COMPLETELY.
HUH?????
REALLY?????

I Don't know man.
You are so far off.
You really do not understand that with the Noah story ,THERE IS NO HALF TAKEN, HALF LEFT???????
so it DOES NOT CONNECT ANYWHERE PAST " BEFORE THE FLOOD".
Hello????
Once you take Jesus's example past where Jesus is talking, you corrupt the deal.
BEORE THE FLOOD...WHAT?
BEFORE THE FLOOD.
ONE TAKEN. ONE LEFT.
THEN WATCH FOR HIS COMING.
WHEN?????
BEFORE THE FLOOD.!!!!
So simple. And none of it passes through your doctrine.
You really are not aware in the Noah story THERE IS NO , ONE TAKEN/LEFT???????

 

[rebuilder 454]

1. Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
2. Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
3. Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

50% go ,50% stay.
Ok, you have no understanding of the bride of Christ??????
Ruth is the gentile bride.( in Ruth)
The jews are the wayward wife gone a whoring .
Vividly illustrated.
The Bible ends how?
The spirit and the bride say come

Maranotha ...COME LORD JESUS.

 

[MA2444]

I understand why you are so frustrated, you have absolutely nothing to bring to the table. Pretrib has left you holding the baby.

I'm not frustrated in the least. At this point...I'm amused. You have to be a bot or a troublemaker because no one can be that obtuse, can they? I doubt it.

You wont talk about the text of scripture. You wont talk about the Holy Spirit I notice.
What kind of Pastor are you?

 

[MA2444]

Maranotha

Maranatha, I thought...?? Either I've been wrong or you have a typo, lol.

Edited to add: I had to look that up for curiosity sake. And the meaning to it. I've heard it before but it's been awhile. It means, Come Lord, or Our Lord Comes. Interesting.

 

[WPM]

Nope.
Nowhere did you address " before the flood"
Jesus went on to actually TELL YOU that The setting IS normal like, peacetime. And commerce.
One taken, And one left..... BEFORE THE TRIB/FLOOD.
Your entire explanation fails in that you LEFT OUT the setting COMPLETELY.
HUH?????
REALLY?????

I Don't know man.
You are so far off.
You really do not understand that with the Noah story ,THERE IS NO HALF TAKEN, HALF LEFT???????
so it DOES NOT CONNECT ANYWHERE PAST " BEFORE THE FLOOD".
Hello????
Once you take Jesus's example past where Jesus is talking, you corrupt the deal.
BEORE THE FLOOD...WHAT?
BEFORE THE FLOOD.
ONE TAKEN. ONE LEFT.
THEN WATCH FOR HIS COMING.
WHEN?????
BEFORE THE FLOOD.!!!!
So simple. And none of it passes through your doctrine.
You really are not aware in the Noah story THERE IS NO , ONE TAKEN/LEFT???????

What are the left to? Destruction! Hello!