The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[tailgator]

Many confuse the timing of the battle of Gog and Magog with current events happening today. But the battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ as is written…

Revelation 20:7-9 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog,to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”​

This event happens after the resurrection of the saints as shown in Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



This resurrection of the saints is also shown in Ezekiel 37:11-14

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.”

This resurrection of God’s people precedes the battle of Gog and Magog shown in the next chapter.

Notice Israel in Ezekiel 38 is shown without walls…

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."



9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,”

At present modern day Israel has very high walls and also many bars and gates, so this is not describing modern day Israel, which is also not at rest and dwelling safely as described above.

Also if you notice the weapons they use in the battle are not modern day weapons, and also notice they are on horses…

Ezekiel 38:4 “And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army,horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:”

This makes perfect sense because the earth is determined to burned up along with everything that is in it, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. So not only will the current walls surrounding Israel be destroyed, but also all the modern day weapons shall be destroyed in the inferno that is coming upon the earth.

But we are told by God's words that a few men shall be left after this fiery destruction…

Isaiah 24:6 “Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: thereforethe inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”

God said in Ezekiel 39 that He would leave a “sixth part” of Gog that will come upon the mountains of Israel in verse 2 “And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:”

This portion that remains after the wrath of God is poured out on the earth is shown in Daniel as the rest of the beasts that had their dominion taken away, whose lives were prolonged for a season and time, or for a thousand years as shown in the Revelation.

Daniel 7:12 “As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.”

So the next big battle to take placebefore the resurrection of the saints is the battle of Armageddon, not the battle of Gog and Magog, which happens after the resurrection of the saints and after the thousand year reign of Christ.

Peace and God bless

Agree agree agree
I believe the war of Armegeddon is mentioned in Ezekiel 38 as having taken place before Gog comes against the resurected saints


It talks about the land having recovered from war.I believe that war is armegeddon.

" a land that has recovered from war, "

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

 

[ewq1938]

Think again...in Matthew 12:29, who is a strong man?

You avoided my question. In the story of the strong man, is he cast and locked in a prison?

 

[ewq1938]

keras, there is an old testament verse, Joel 1:7, that supports the fig tree being Israel.

About 20 years ago, Jack Van Impe, used that verse in his interpretation of the parable of the fig tree. It seemed rationale at that time. Jack Van Impe was also speculating that king Juan Carlos was the Antichrist, based on Spain becoming the 11th nation to join the EU.

Using 1948 as the base year.....

1948 +70 years for a generation = 2018.

2018 - 7 years = 2011

But those years came and went. So it became time to rethink what the fig tree represents. Going by what Jesus said in Matthew 21, when cursed the fig tree beside the road, as he was about enter Jerusalem, that final week of His time here on earth - Jerusalem is the fig tree, and 1967 is when it became back in the hands of the Jews.

What Jesus spoke about is not related to any number of years or any date. That is why every person to speculate using them have been wrong and shall be wrong. Jesus was not talking about how many years etc....he spoke of a time when people will see the events he described and he said they would see all the things described, including the second coming. Maybe we are seeing some of those early things, maybe not. We have to wait to see more.

 

[Keraz]

Abraham was born in the year 1949 after the creation of Adam and left Haran to go down to the Land of Canaan when he has 75 years old, which when adding these two numbers together, means that Abraham left Haran to go down into the Land of Canaan in the year 2,024 after the creation of Adam.

Teruah begat Abram at age 70, Genesis 11:26. Exactly 1948 years after Adam.
He obeyed Gods call to leave Ur when he was 52. Exactly 2000 years after Adam
He stayed in Haran for 23 years until Teruah died, so he was 75 when he entered Canaan.

Remember that God is a God of mathematical precision. Numbers like 7, 40 and 1000, are important to His plan for humanity.

1948 +70 years for a generation = 2018.

Plus 10 by reason of strength. Psalms 90:10

So there is yet 4 years until 2028, the last possible date for the generation who was alive when Judah became a nation again, to be prsent when the Lord sends His fiery wrath and commences the end times.

 

[Jay Ross]

So, what is your interpretation, Jay, of Matthew 24:32-34, of when Jesus will return by ?

the fig tree begins to bud + the length of a generation at that time = the no later than year, Jesus returns by then

Let us first set the baseline of the scriptures for the questions you are asking.

Matthew 24:27-35: - 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

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29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

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30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

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32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.​

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33 So you also, when you see all these things existing, know that the end is near — even at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this age will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.​

Please understand that verse 32 above stands by itself in that it has no connection with the verse 31 and 33. Verse 32 tell us when the seventh age will begin which is also the age when the Great harvest of Souls will take place. Verse 32 also tells us when the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and the children's children in the third and the fourth age will be completed and when those taking part in the trampling of the God's earthly hosts and God's sanctuary will be judged at the beginning of the seventh age.

It is at this time that God will establish His everlasting Kingdom here upon the earth and that Christ will be given dominion over all of the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him.

Now verses Matthew 24:27-31 describes what will be happening at the end of the seventh age, with Christ coming with Great power and great Glory.

Then Matthew 24:32 steps back to our present time since we have seen the budding of new leaves upon the fig tree which had withered and died during Christ's first advent while the Israelites seek to reconnect with God once more and return in their own strength to the Land of Canaan. In Jeremiah 31;31ff we learn that Israel will once again renew the covenant that they rejected at Mt Sinai while they were in the desert and again enter into the covenant once again to become a nation of Priest, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations.

When we read Matthew 24:25-31, the imagery takes us to the end of the Seventh Age when Satan, the beast and the False Prophet are captured and dispatched into the lake of fire and the army that Satan had assembles and their flesh becomes a feast for the birds of the air to consume.

It is after this point in time that we will see the Son of Man, i.e., Christ, coming to judge all of mankind.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Teruah begat Abram at age 70, Genesis 11:26. Exactly 1948 years after Adam.

You have missed one year in your calculations. Abraham was born in the year 1949 after Adam.

He obeyed Gods call to leave Ur when he was 52. Exactly 2000 tears after Adam

The Bible does not tell us this at all. The understanding that Abraham was 52 years of age is found in the Book of Jasher. All that the bible tells us is that Abraham was 75 years old when he left his father and his household that remained in Haran.

He stayed in Haran for 23 years until Teruah died, so he was 75 when he entered Canaan.

No, Terah died around 60 years later after Abraham had left Haran. The Book of Jasher provides the same understanding to this fact. If as you have suggested here, Abraham would have been born 60 years later that when you suggest that he was born.

Remember that God is a God of mathematical precision. Numbers like 7, 40 and 1000, are important to His plan for humanity.

You have not shown any mathematical precision in your calculations or understanding of the end times.

Goodbye

 

[Keraz]

You have missed one year in your calculations. Abraham was born in the year 1949 after Adam.

We are both wrong. There is 1946 years from Adam io when Abram was born.
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70

Therefore; Abram was 54 when he departed from Ur. I do not take writings like the book of Jasher to account.

God is the mathematical wizz, not me.

 

[Douggg]

What Jesus spoke about is not related to any number of years or any date. That is why every person to speculate using them have been wrong and shall be wrong. Jesus was not talking about how many years etc....he spoke of a time when people will see the events he described and he said they would see all the things described, including the second coming. Maybe we are seeing some of those early things, maybe not. We have to wait to see more.

In His parable of the fig tree, Jesus was identifying the specific generation, not just people in general, that would see those things and His return.

What you think the fig tree represents in Jesus's parable of the fig tree?

 

[Douggg]

Plus 10 by reason of strength. Psalms 90:10

So there is yet 4 years until 2028, the last possible date for the generation who was alive when Judah became a nation again, to be prsent when the Lord sends His fiery wrath and commences the end times.

keras, yes there is that 80 years if by strength in Psalms 90:10

But let's look at 1948 + 80 years = 2028, as not later than Jesus return. The reason that combo does not work is because if we subtract 7 years from 2028, as the latest for the confirmation of the covenant of Daniel 9:27 - then it should have taken place in 2021. Did not happen.

By going to the fig tree representation as being Jerusalem, and not Israel, then everything is still possible. 1967 + 70 years = 2037 (Jesus's return deadline). And 7 years before then, 2030 (confirmation of the covenant deadline).

 

[Douggg]

33 So you also, when you see all these things existing, know that the end is near — even at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this age will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Jay, what bible translation are you using ?

I went to Biblehub.com and looked up Matthew 24:34 and none of the translations had "age" in that verse. All that I saw had "generation".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did not say what day nor hour. I am not asking even what year. I am asking you according to your understanding of Jesus's parable of the fig tree, what is the deadline of when He returns by ? I gave my rationale of sometime before the end of 2037.

I said I'm not into speculating. Did you miss that? You always expect everyone else to look at things the way you do. You expect everyone else to make charts like you do. You expect everyone else to try to predict the deadline by which Christ will return like you do. It's ridiculous. We should be ready for His return at all times and we should be going about the things that He wants us to do every day. That's how I look at it. I look forward to His coming and believe it could be soon, but I don't obsess over trying to predict when He will come like you do.

You have given you opinion of the length of a generation. But you have not stated what is your view of what is the fig tree. And what is the concluding deadline by putting those two things together.

the fig tree begins to bud + the length of a generation at that time = the no later than year, Jesus returns by then


Matthew 24:
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

In verse 33 Jesus explains exactly what He was talking about in verse 32. The identity of the fig tree has nothing to do with His point. His point was that when people would see "all these things" happening, then we would know His second coming was near. That's it. His point had nothing to do with identifying who the fig tree is and nothing to do with "the fig tree generation" or any nonsense like that. His parable was told only to illustrate another scenario where it could be known that something was near to give them an idea of how near His return would be when they saw "all these things" coming to pass. And "all these things" related to what He had just been talking about, such as false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders and deceiving many people.

Also, I already pointed out that I don't interpret the word "generation" like you do. You interpret it the same way preterists do, as if He was speaking of a chronological generation. I don't believe that. The Greek word "genea" has other definitions besides that. I believe He was saying this type of people, the Jews, would not pass until all the things He talked about are fulfilled and they don't all be fulfilled until His second coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jay, what bible translation are you using ?

I went to Biblehub.com and looked up Matthew 24:34 and none of the translations had "age" in that verse. All that I saw had "generation".

This means nothing. The word generation is translated from the Greek word "genea" and has multiple definitions besides just a chronological generation (a time period during which certain people live). It can mean "age" and it can mean other things as well.

This is from blueletterbible.org in relation to the Greek word "genea":



There's 2 things you should notice here. First, the word has more than one definition. It can refer to "men of the same stock" which means people of a certain type. Such as Jews. Or evil people. Or any other type of people. That is how I understand the word to be used in Matthew 24:34.

The second thing to notice here is that when it's used to refer to an age or certain time period, as you believe it's being used in Matthew 24:34, that time period is "a space of 30-33 years". Just as I've said, a generation in that sense lasts about 30 to 40 years because it has to do with the time period that a person lives up until they have children after which another generation begins. To say that a generation can last 70 or more years is ridiculous. You are trying to create a new definition for the word that doesn't exist. The word never refers to the average life span of people as you imagine.

 

[Jay Ross]

We are both wrong. There is 1946 years from Adam to when Abram was born.
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70

Using your data above and adding the age of the fathers together when the mentioned son in the Biblical Chronologies are referenced, I generated the following table: -

	Note a​	Years AA​	Years BC​
The creation of Adam	0​	0​	-4100​
Gen 5:3 Seth +	130​	130​	-3970​
Gen 5:6 Enoch +	105​	235​	-3865​
Gen 5:9 Kenan +	90​	325​	-3775​
Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +	70​	395​	-3705​
Gen 5:15 Jared +	65​	460​	-3640​
Gen 5:18 Enoch +	162​	622​	-3478​
Gen 5:21 Methuselah +	65​	687​	-3413​
Gen 5:25 Lamech +	187​	874​	-3226​
Gen 5:28 Noah+	182​	1056​	-3044​
Gen 7:6 Noah entered the Arc when +	600​	1656​	-2444​
Gen 8:13 The Flood ended when Noah was +	1​	1657​	-2443​
Gen 11:10 Arpachshad +	2​	1659​	-2441​
Gen 11:12 Selah +	35​	1694​	-2406​
Gen 11:14 Heber +	30​	1724​	-2376​
Gen 11:16 Peleg +	34​	1758​	-2342​
Gen 11:18 Reu +	30​	1788​	-2312​
Gen 11:20 Serug +	32​	1820​	-2280​
Gen 11:22 Nahor +	30​	1850​	-2250​
Gen 11:24 Terah +	29​	1879​	-2221​
Gen 11:26 Abram +	70​	1949​	-2151​
Gen 21:5 Isaac +	100​	2049​	-2051​

Note a This column lists the years when the nominated children were born to their respective fathers and the age of Noah when the flood started and ended.

Even while using your data and correcting to take into account the duration of the Flood, I still come to the same answer that I provided previously, that Abraham was born in the year 1949 AA.

Therefore; Abram was 54 when he departed from Ur. I do not take writings like the book of Jasher to account.

Previously you had stated that Abraham was 52 years old when he had left Ur of the Chaldean with his father Terah.

Teruah begat Abram at age 70, Genesis 11:26. Exactly 1948 years after Adam.
He obeyed Gods call to leave Ur when he was 52. Exactly 2000 years after Adam
He stayed in Haran for 23 years until Teruah died, so he was 75 when he entered Canaan.

It seems to me that your information is very fluid and changes with the wind as can be seen above.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, what bible translation are you using ?

I went to Biblehub.com and looked up Matthew 24:34 and none of the translations had "age" in that verse. All that I saw had "generation".

Douggg, I also have noted that the listed translations at BibleHub also translate Genea as a "descendant" generation and not "age" as I have shown in the paraphrase of the verses above. Now if Christ return at the end of the Seventh Age to Judge all of mankind, then in Matthew 24:34 He was not referring to the descendant generations of his day as they are no longer living and, as such, they will not see what will happen during the little while period after the Bottomless pit is unlocked. What did Christ tell us: - "Assuredly, I say to you, this age will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Since the people that will be alive at the end of the seventh age will see the events that will take place during the little while period, but they will not see the events that will take place at the beginning of the seventh age. Therefore, Christ was referring to all the descendant generation that will live during the seventh age and as such my use of the word "age" in Matt 24:34 is more appropriate than the use of the word "generation." It is interesting that in the OT the words "Age" and "Generation" are interchangeable in various translations.

Goodbye

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Here is another fact that confirms when the battle of Gog and Magog takes place…

Ezekiel 38:11
And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates,

Ezekiel 38:14
Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

It is obvious that the present day nation of Israel is not living safely and at rest without walls or without gates.

So when was Israel prophesied to dwell safely and be at rest?

Jeremiah 23:6
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Jeremiah 32:37
Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

Ezekiel 28:25-26

King James Version

​

25 Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.
26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the Lord their God.”

Ezekiel 34:28
And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, I also have noted that the listed translations at BibleHub also translate Genea as a "descendant" generation and not "age" as I have shown in the paraphrase of the verses above.

Jay, in your post, you presented the word "age" as being part of a translation - not noting it as "your paraphrase" - because you omitted the word "generation".

In the future, please copy and paste verses from whatever translation you are using - without omitting words and replacing the omitted words with you own words.

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"age" is too broad, and contains many generations. Jesus was speaking about one specific generation that will see His return.

We need to (1) determine what the fig tree presents (2) how long is a generation.

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Jay, please note, I have not made any personal degrading comments regarding your understanding of the bible in my reply to your post content. Please try to do the same.

 

[Douggg]

This means nothing. The word generation is translated from the Greek word "genea" and has multiple definitions besides just a chronological generation (a time period during which certain people live). It can mean "age" and it can mean other things as well.

It means that those 40 or so translations - all of them said "generation".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It means that those 40 or so translations - all of them said "generation".

LOL. So what? I'm not even saying that it's wrong for the word to be translated as "generation".
The English word "generation" has multiple definitions just like the Greek word it's translated from (genea), so what you're saying proves nothing.

 

[Douggg]

In verse 33 Jesus explains exactly what He was talking about in verse 32.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

You truncated verse 34. Jesus was identifying what specific generation would see His return.

I said I'm not into speculating.

I am not asking you to speculate. I am asking you what the fig tree represents in Jesus's parable of the fig tree.

The identity of the fig tree has nothing to do with His point. His point was that when people would see "all these things" happening, then we would know His second coming was near.

Jesus was not talking about people in general in His parable of the fig tree - but a specific generation of people. That's why He said in Matthew 24:

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[Douggg]

LOL. So what? I'm not even saying that it's wrong for the word to be translated as "generation".
The English word "generation" has multiple definitions just like the Greek word it's translated from (genea), so what you're saying proves nothing.

To understand Jesus's parable of the fig tree requires (1) determine what the fig tree presents (2) how long is a generation.

You choose a generation to be 30-40 years. But you have yet to determine what the fig tree represents in Jesus's parable of the fig tree. There are only two choices based on bible verses. (1) Israel (2) Jerusalem.

Israel as being the fig tree, has been eliminated because combinations based on Israel a nation in the land again - have all passed. That leaves Jerusalem as being the fig tree.