The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[Stewardofthemystery]

Do I have this right?

Hamon-gog, the battle of Ezekiel 39 occurs at the 7th Trump, before the Millennium.

Armageddon also happens at the 7th trump (Vials are poured out). Revelation 16:17 — "It is done."

Gog and Magog takes place after the Millennium (Revelation 20:7-9).

The battle of Armageddon happens before the thousand year reign of Christ.

The battle of Gog and Magog happens after the thousand years.

Both battles are similar in that it is “the nations” of the world that come up against Israel in both battles.

 

[honeycomb]

The battle of Armageddon happens before the thousand year reign of Christ.

The battle of Gog and Magog happens after the thousand years.

Both battles are similar in that it is “the nations” of the world that come up against Israel in both battles.

The thousand year reign of Christ IS the Millennium.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I understand that Satan is a spirit that works in all the children of disobedience. But Satan is also an angel being one of the sons of God. And Yes God created ALL things, even the angels.

Frankly, I honestly believe you and many here do not understand who are the sons of God becasue you have been brainwashed to think that the sons of God in the Old Testament are celestial beings, breeding with women on Earth producing Nepheim, blah blah blah...

Here is a good article if anyone interested to know the truth about "sons of God":

What were The Nephilims in Relationship to the Sons of God?

Again Revelation 12 is not talking about the casting out of Satan from individuals, but it is showing the timing of when Satan and the evil angels were cast out of heaven down to the earth.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I think you do not have a spiritual discernment (understanding) about how Satan works through men in the congregation of Israel which is the kingdom of heaven.

1Co 2:13-14
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This notion that the thousand year reign of Christ on earth has already started, and that Satan is bound right now is FALSE doctrine. BEWARE!

True, and I believe that Satan has been loosened recently based on what I have observed in the world according to Christ.

Just take a look around at the world and tell me, is sin reigning or is Righteousness reigning on earth right now?

You misunderstood!!

Satan was NOT bound for the sake of the world so we can have world peace or something like that. No. Satan was bound for the sake of the Elect so that Christ could build his Kingdom through the testimony of Two Witnesses (Christians). Remember that after the salvation testimony is finished, Satan will come out and overcome the church and silence the truthful testimony! This is why we are witnessing the apostasy and desolation of the New Testament congregation (Church) today...if you have spiritual eyes to see. Unless you are deceived by your own belief that this only applies to national Israel in the Middle East with two supernatural fire-breathing men?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Frankly, I honestly believe you and many here do not understand who are the sons of God becasue you have been brainwashed to think that the sons of God in the Old Testament are celestial beings, breeding with women on Earth producing Nepheim, blah blah blah...

Here is a good article if anyone interested to know the truth about "sons of God":

What were The Nephilims in Relationship to the Sons of God?




I think you do not have a spiritual discernment (understanding) about how Satan works through men in the congregation of Israel which is the kingdom of heaven.

1Co 2:13-14
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I think you “Amils” are void of spiritual discernment.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I believe that Satan has been loosened recently based on what I have observed in the world according to Christ.

Just recently huh? So now you think the thousand year reign of Christ is over? Lol. What a joke

You misunderstood!!

Satan was NOT bound for the sake of the world so we can have world peace or something like that. No. Satan was bound for the sake of the Elect so that Christ could build his Kingdom through the testimony of Two Witnesses (Christians). Remember that after the salvation testimony is finished, Satan will come out and overcome the church and silence the truthful testimony! This is why we are witnessing the apostasy and desolation of the New Testament congregation (Church) today...if you have spiritual eyes to see. Unless you are deceived by your own belief that this only applies to national Israel in the Middle East with two supernatural fire-breathing men?

Satan hasn’t been bound yet, because the thousand year reign of Christ has not happened yet. You “Amils” don’t have a clue.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Oh... all is good with Amillennialism...you will find out on the last day...at the last trump. :)

And congratulations on quoting these verses but do you really understand what God actually talked about here? Humm, I do not think so.

Job 1:6

• ""Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."

Job 2:1

• "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."

By the way, if anyone's bible translates these words (sons of God) as angels, that is a serious error! The words "sons of God" in these verses are the exact same Hebrew words found throughout Scripture for sons and God. It is the same words found in Genesis chapter 6. The words are [ben 'elohiym] or as some write it [bane el-o-heem] which is literally offspring or children/Sons of God. The exact same words in all the verses in the Bible! There is no word "angel" or "messenger" there in the original Hebrew. Any Bible that translates these words as angel is making a "unjustifiable commentary" and that's not really a translation or transliteration of the Hebrew. And believe me, there is a difference. Commentaries can be helpful, but when they find themselves on the pages of scripture masquerading "as Scripture," that is a serious error. It is an unrighteous act for anyone to translate [ben 'elohiym] as angels when God inspired the words meaning "Children of God."

As for the actual verse, some people have legitimately been confused by the language that these sons of God "came to present [yatsab] (meaning, to station or position) themselves before the Lord." Some think that this must mean that they were in "literal" heaven. That is NOT the case. We have to keep in mind the times that we are reading about. The time of Job was the early years of the world. The language of "presenting themselves before God", is common in Biblical History, and doesn't denote literally appearing in physical Heaven before Him. It is simply common language of the day denoting coming to a place designated for the presence of God, in order to inquire of Him. Today, we'd go to a church to do this. That would be our coming to present ourselves and inquire of God. In those days, they would have their own designated Holy place. We see this clearly for example in Deuteronomy chapter 31:

Deuteronomy 31:14-15

• "...call Joshua, and Present Yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and Presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
• and the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud:...."

God told Moses to present [yatsab] (same word) himself and Joshua before Him in the tabernacle, and "God" appeared there and spoke to them. Please note, they did NOT appear in Heaven, but in a place of Earth! Comparing scripture with scripture we see this language of presenting oneself before the Lord doesn't denote an appearance in the third heaven. Here they presented themselves before God, but it was in the physical tabernacle on earth. It's the exact same thing as the sons of God presenting themselves in Job. In these early days, God spoke to His servants the Prophets in a special way. And often times that meant an appearance or His presence in a special way. But don't take my word for it, just compare scripture with scripture.

1st Samuel 10:19

• "...Now therefore Present Yourselves before the Lord by your tribes, and by your thousands."

Present (same Hebrew word) themselves before the Lord and there they would inquire of God. That didn't mean that the tribes of Israel went into third Heaven to present themselves before the Lord. This is the language God uses to describe the official, recognized gathering together into the place of the presence of God. Another verse is, Numbers 11:16 where the Lord tells Moses to gather 70 into the tabernacle to STAND (same Hebrew word PRESENT) themselves with Moses, and "GOD" would come down and talk with Him there. You see, this was simply the language used in the old days when the believers or sons/children of God would come to pray, worship and inquire of the Lord. They would present themselves before the Lord for instruction. There is no different in saying, "the sons of God came to present themselves before the lord," and in saying "the believers came to present themselves before the Lord." It's human beings in view here, not angels, and it's the designated place of worship on earth, not in physical heaven. Selah!

Next literally we read in Job 1:6 says "..and there doth come Satan in their midst." So the sons of God came to present themselves before God, and Satan (the adversary) came in the midst of the congregation with them. As indeed Satan normally does among God's people. Not at all unlike the 12 Disciples with Christ in Jerusalem, and Satan coming in the midst of them within Judas. There we have an example of Judas as the adversary coming in the midst of the sons of God at the Sop with our Lord, and Christ telling him, "That thou doest, do quickly." Once again we see that Satan makes his appearance on earth through men!

Yes, it's an event that took place, but not in heaven, not with angels, not with a created being called Satan, but in the early assembly of God's children, where the adversary came among them to bring railing accusation, and God responding with a teaching lesson for all of us that would last in His word until Christ returns. The adversary meant it for evil, but God used it for good.

Now, listen to this....this also proves to any Bible believing, rationally thinking person that if this were very literally Satan in heaven at the time of Job, then undeniably he couldn't have been the fallen angelic being in the Garden of Eden that was allegedly cursed because that would necessarily mean that after that cursing, God allowed Satan to come back into heaven as a evil angel?!? God forbids! Yet again "proving" the total and clear bankruptcy of your doctrine that this was the Same Being Satan that was in the Garden. How is Satan cursed in the Garden, and then years later at the time of Job, came back to heaven to face God and other supposed angels. It makes no sense because it's not true! It's your church tradition of fallen angels that has been passed down through the years and that many Christians, like you, cannot seem to let go of. Even when they know it's contradictory, convoluted and inconsistent.

God talking to Satan is no different from God asking Adam and Eve where they were, when of course He knew perfectly well where they were. Or Him telling the Serpent in the garden that he had been cursed. It's all for our learning. Not a discussion for Satan, but for us. In this conversation we understand the mind of wicked man who inserts himself into God's assembly and reviles and speaks evil against God's faithful. There is nothing new under the sun. What does God do? God allows adversity upon Job, knowing the end from the beginning, for our benefit and edification.

Hope you understand!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Just recently huh? So now you think the thousand year reign of Christ is over? Lol. What a joke

Yes, it seems foolish to those who do not have spiritual discernment. Here is the study "IF" you want to read. I bet you don't because you did not read the previous article I posted. But anyone else can.

An exposition of Revelation 20

Satan hasn’t been bound yet, because the thousand year reign of Christ has not happened yet. You “Amils” don’t have a clue.

Wrongo! Just as I have explained before... if Satan, a strong man, has not yet bound by Christ on our behalf, and spoil us into salvation, we are not saved today. Go read Matthew 12:29 again and again until you get it. Otherwise, have fun with your physical millennial kingdom theory which will not come at all!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This notion that the thousand year reign of Christ on earth has already started, and that Satan is bound right now is FALSE doctrine. BEWARE!

Nonsense! You've been provided plenty of evidence in support of Amillennialism and you ignore it all! You do NOTHING to refute it. You run away from it. BEWARE of your FALSE doctrine of premillennialism that you can't support with scripture.

Just take a look around at the world and tell me, is sin reigning or is Righteousness reigning on earth right now?

There is your answer.

Righteousness won't reign until the eternal new heavens and new earth are ushered in, so what you're saying here proves nothing in relation to the thousand years.

If premil is true, then you won't be afraid to tell me how you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Why do you not agree with Peter that we are looking for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells rather than a temporal earthly kingdom, as you believe?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just recently huh? So now you think the thousand year reign of Christ is over? Lol. What a joke

Don't be a fool. Do you actually think that the reign of Christ will ever end? Does scripture not say His reign will be forever?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

It's not the reign of Christ that has a beginning and ending symbolized by the "thousand years", it's the binding of Satan. His binding will end when he is loosed, but Jesus continues to reign after that. Satan can only do what Jesus allows him to do. Jesus reigns now and will never stop reigning in this temporal age or in the age to come (Ephesians 1:19-23).

Satan hasn’t been bound yet, because the thousand year reign of Christ has not happened yet. You “Amils” don’t have a clue.

If you had a clue, then you wouldn't keep running away every time I challenge your premil view. You are not able to defend your doctrine at all. If you could, then you would not run away when I ask you to interpret 2 Peter 3:10-13.

How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Yes, it seems foolish to those who do not have spiritual discernment.

More false accusations.

Here is the study "IF" you want to read. I bet you don't because you did not read the previous article I posted. But anyone else can.

An exposition of Revelation 20

I don’t receive the testimony of men

Wrongo! Just as I have explained before... if Satan, a strong man, has not yet bound by Christ on our behalf, and spoil us into salvation, we are not saved today. Go read Matthew 12:29 again and again until you get it. Otherwise, have fun with your physical millennial kingdom theory which will not come at all!

Again you guys keep talking about individual salvation, that IS NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about WHEN Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth.

You guys are trying side step the issue.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Don't be a fool.

More accusations

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

It's not the reign of Christ that has a beginning and ending symbolized by the "thousand years", it's the binding of Satan. His binding will end when he is loosed, but Jesus continues to reign after that. Satan can only do what Jesus allows him to do. Jesus reigns now and will never stop reigning in this temporal age or in the age to come (Ephesians 1:19-23).


If you had a clue, then you wouldn't keep running away every time I challenge your premil view. You are not able to defend your doctrine at all. If you could, then you would not run away when I ask you to interpret 2 Peter 3:10-13.

How do you interpret this passage:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So how does those verses disprove that Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth right after Christ was crucified?

Where do those verses prove that Satan was bound in the pit for a thousand years at that time.

I don’t need to see a whole bunch of unrelated verses.

 

[TribulationSigns]

More false accusations.

( remvoved - warning 1)

I don’t receive the testimony of men

Pride talking. The authors of the Bible are men too. John Calvin is a man. Tony Warren, the author of the article, is a man but is of God to explain His Word concerning the subject.

Again you guys keep talking about individual salvation, that IS NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about WHEN Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth.

You don't get it. First, you do not understand "HOW" Satan was cast out of Heaven which was when Christ bound him! When? At the Cross when Christ defeated Satan and cast him out of His Kingdom (congregation which was fallen).

You guys are trying side step the issue.

Not at all. It was you who didn't want to hear truthful testimony.

 

[TribulationSigns]

More accusations

He's right. Don't be a fool.

So how does those verses disprove that Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth right after Christ was crucified?

Where do those verses prove that Satan was bound in the pit for a thousand years at that time.

I don’t need to see a whole bunch of unrelated verses.

So the strong man being bound in Matthew 12:29 is not related to Satan being bound in Revelation 20? You have denied these verses (and the articles that explain the verses) because of your foolish pride.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Says the fool.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Pride talking. The authors of the Bible are men too. John Calvin is a man. Tony Warren, the author of the article, is a man but is of God to explain His Word concerning the subject.



You don't get it. First, you do not understand "HOW" Satan was cast out of Heaven which was when Christ bound him! When? At the Cross when Christ defeated Satan and cast him out of His Kingdom (congregation which was fallen).



Not at all. It was you who didn't want to hear truthful testimony.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

He's right. Don't be a fool.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

…..your foolish pride.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

More accusations

So how does those verses disprove that Satan was cast out of heaven down to the earth right after Christ was crucified?

Why would I want to disprove something I already believe? Did you somehow miss when I agreed with you that Satan was already cast out of heaven long ago?

Where do those verses prove that Satan was bound in the pit for a thousand years at that time.

I don’t need to see a whole bunch of unrelated verses.

I didn't even say anything about that in relation to those verses. Slow down and pay attention to the context of what is being said. You had said "So now you think the thousand year reign of Christ is over?" and I was responding to that by showing that His reign never ends. It's Satan's binding that ends when the thousand years ends, but not Christ's reign. That is my point.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Why would I want to disprove something I already believe? Did you somehow miss when I agreed with you that Satan was already cast out of heaven long ago?


I didn't even say anything about that in relation to those verses. Slow down and pay attention to the context of what is being said. You had said "So now you think the thousand year reign of Christ is over?" and I was responding to that by showing that His reign never ends. It's Satan's binding that ends when the thousand years ends, but not Christ's reign. That is my point.

Now you are contradicted yourself. If you believe the thousand year reign of Christ had begun already at the cross, then you also believe that Satan has already been bound in the pit for those same thousand years.

The truth is you guys do not know what it is you are talking about. The thousand year reign of Christ on earth has not begun yet. So that means Satan also has not been bound yet in the pit. That is the Truth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Now you are contradicted yourself. If you believe the thousand year reign of Christ had begun already at the cross, then you also believe that Satan has already been bound in the pit for those same thousand years.

The truth is you guys do not know what it is you are talking about.

No, it is you and the Dispensationalists who do not UNDERSTAND the NATURE and PURPOSE of Satan's binding. You were brainwashed to believe that when Satan is bound, then the world is supposed to have peace, free from war, and God has set up a kingdom in national Israel or something like that. Since these did not happen, you automatically think the millennial kingdom hasn't started. That is why! You did not even bother to read Matthew 12 and understand why Satan, a strong man, must be bound in order to spoil the people out of his house (world) with Salvation Gospel. And guess what, this has taken place since the Cross through the Church! Selah! Nothing to do with world peace or the golden age in national Israel!

Selah!

The thousand year reign of Christ on earth has not begun yet.

Exactly, THIS is my point that you automatically believe that the thousand years should be about bringing world peace on Earth BECAUSE asll you see wars since the Cross. You don't get it. What peace does Christ bring to the chosen people in the world? SALVATION! That is true peace with God! That is what its about! God did not say that he will put Satan in jail (bottomless pit) so that Earth will finally have world peace. Sigh!

So that means Satan also has not been bound yet in the pit. That is the Truth.

You did not believe that Satan was in bound because all you see wars on Earth since the Cross. Your thinking is wrong. Christ has bound Satan so He could BUILD HIS CHURCH and saving (spoiling) His people from Satan's house of spiritual bondage. This is the purpose of the Church! After the building of the church with all Elect secured (Revelation 7:1-4), Christ will loosed Satan so that he will be used by God as a tool of judgment upon His unfaithful church (Babylon the Great) before Christ's return. There is NO TRUTH in your so-called future 1,000-year fantasy of world peace.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now you are contradicted yourself.

No, I'm not. You have a reading comprehension problem. You also are avoiding addressing our points and avoiding giving your interpretations of scripture that we use to support our view.

If you believe the thousand year reign of Christ had begun already at the cross, then you also believe that Satan has already been bound in the pit for those same thousand years.

Yeah, so? What is your point? It talks about a dragon being chained in a pit/prison. That's all symbolic, including the thousand years.

The truth is you guys do not know what it is you are talking about.

This is a lie. What does it accomplish to lie about us? You are making very little effort to understand what we believe.

The thousand year reign of Christ on earth has not begun yet. So that means Satan also has not been bound yet in the pit. That is the Truth.

Where does it say He will reign on earth?