T U L I P explained

[Eternally Grateful]

You didn't get his intent?

If Christ was held under the same condemnation where do you think these two were heading?

F2F

Christ was held under what condemnation?

You do realise Christ died 2 times on that cross do you not? The peyment for sin was completed before he gave up the spirit.

As he said, "it is finished" or in the greek tetelestai , means literally, "paid in full"

Jesus at this time already died and was restored to life (born again) He then left his earthly body.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did and the truth of it still stands - as much for Rita as it does for me!

Hence why Acts 17:11 is so important!

F2F

yes except she does not think so..

 

[face2face]

Christ was held under what condemnation?

I like a good question Eternal!

5:18 Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people. Ro 5:18.

Let me ask you a question now....what is the condemnation?

What did God do in His Son to remove that condemnation?

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh Rom 8:1–3.

How did God righteously remove that condemnation in Christ?

F2F

 

[face2face]

yes except she does not think so..

Correct - the location of power and wisdom is frowned upon - imagine that!

 

[Ritajanice]

I like a good question Eternal!

5:18 Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people. Ro 5:18.

Let me ask you a question now....what is the condemnation?

What did God do in His Son to remove that condemnation?

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh Rom 8:1–3.

How did God righteously remove that condemnation in Christ?

F2F

Try to post scripture in its full entirety/ context please...instead of ripping a few paragraphs out of scripture. It makes no sense.
You need the whole context to understand this scripture.

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry both points refer to nature - that's the whole Bible Story! Redemption from the condemnation of sin which leads to death.

Sorry, I am not sure where you get this from. But it is not logical

The change from mortal to immortal - corruptible to incorruptible.

So what does spiritual death look like to one who has an enlightened mind?

It literally means you are separated from God. there is no relationship. there is a barrier between you and God. You have no spiritual life. you are completely in the flesh.

I think sometimes people get stuck on religious words. We just need to calm and look at what it is.

Adam separated himself from God the moment he sinned. The relationship was severed. Adam was no headed to hell. because he was condemned. the wage if his sin was that seperation.

God had to restore that relationship. which he did, he even showed adam and all of us how he would do that. By covering adam with the skin of an innocent animal..

and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. Hebrew 6:6

If a person continued in this state they would remove their name from the Book of Life and lose their Eternal hope.

Yes, why? Because they did not believe, He who does not believe is condemned already. they need to be born again.

Correct.

Correct also!

Carnal nature + carnal mind = Romans 6:23

But remember, the lost has only this.. Every thought and every action is based on self.. Thats why they can not do good. no not one.

No Physically - hence the need for the resurrection!

There are some that will not need resurrected. they will be caught up to meet the lord in the air..

Plus, like Paul said., i was dead. How can I be dead. yet physically alive.. Help me understand your thinking on this

Yes, lets use Christ as an example.

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

Ok, yes lets use that. Could jesus have come off that cross and took over the world as he is promised he will do? Did he have to die physically. why did he die physically? He said the payment for sin was complete (it is finished)

Physical death never had dominion over him.

The working of death in his members was removed when God raised him from the dead. This is how Christ tasted death for all men and how he was made sin for us!

Yes. but why

So you guessed correctly Christ was held under the condemnation of death not because he sinned but due to inheriting mortal nature from his mum. He had to be in the like of Abraham to be held under that condemnation until such time as it could be removed.

ok I am confused. please explain

So now it can be said:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1.

Yes. Because he who knew no sin was made sin for us.. He took our penalty. he was separated from God. My God My God why have you departed from me..

I've given you enough here now explain how God had victory over the flesh

Answer here____________________________________________________________________

Jesus had victory over the flesh because he was loved by his father.. Thats how we get victory. we love others because he first loved us.

Correct - Circumcision is cutting away of the flesh (physical) which is what Christ did completely on the Cross both physically and mentally!

This feels like Déjà vu - you havnt taken over Rita handle have you?

Why are you posting verses which support Bible truth while speaking against them?

I'll let you regroup and return with vigor!

I was not speaking against them

You have not shown how the wage of sin is physical death. So don;t take a victory lap to soon

F2F

Note: you will see Paul's teaching in Colossians leads you to understand the death state of mankind and how a person who comes to be "In Christ" is circumcised with a circumcision made without hands (spiritual in mind), by putting off the body of the flesh (which is condemned to die) by the circumcision of Christ. Col 2:10–11.

Remember, for that person to be made alive, he was dead.

He was dead yet he was physically alive. thus the need to be circumcised or born again.


So explain what kind of death, it was not physical.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful I think we can save ourselves a lot of time by saying if you believe in the immortal soul - meaning some divine immortal essence I can save both us a lot of time by saying the Bible is totally silent on such a thing! No ethereal spirit wafting out of people etc.

Hope that helps - explains why your "spiritual death" doctrine isn't working for the quotes you are posting.

F2F

God told adam, in the moment you eat of this tree. you will die

Adam died

Jesus, died on the cross. before he suffered physical death.

We are told we need to be born again, because we are dead because of sin.

So your physical death thinking is not working out to well.

I think you do not understand what spiritual death means (separation) and that may be another issue.

remember, Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body..

Spiritual death is the separation of a person from the body of Christ,

 

[Ritajanice]

Spiritual death is the separation of a person from the body of Christ,

Spiritual death in us is separation from the Spirit of God, not a person, a persons spirit is separated from God’s Spirit.

That’s why we need to be Born Again..our spirit is reconciled/right before God, not a person.when our spirit becomes Born Again.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

While I’m at it, there is no faith in your own human understanding...you cannot have faith in someone like God without His Living witness His Living Holy Spirit witnessing the truth of Gods word to your spirit as I’ve explained below.....impossible...you need God given given Faith and become Born Again of His imperishable/ incorruptible seed....just as His word says.
For some reason from reading your posts, you seem to work for having faith in God, you don’t need to do that as a Born Again as faith will just naturally grow as the seed of faith was planted into our hearts/ spirit by God via His witness His Living Holy Spirit....I pray you come to know that in your heart/ spirit....heart revelation is a mind Blowing and can only come from the Spirit of God, as His power is within the spirit of his Born Again children.



In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”



As I’ve already tried to explain, to be Born Again of Gods seed is heart revelation.

This is the heart/ spirit revelation I received...Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit testifying with my spirit.....blew my socks off!....God given faith is mighty powerful.....it can never be erased from the spirit of His child....why, because it was planted into our hearts by Gods seed, Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

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◄ Romans 8:16 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. New Living Translation For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. English Standard Version The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Berean Standard Bible The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Berean Literal Bible The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, King James Bible The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

Unfortunately you have no spiritual knowledge of spiritual matters on what it means to be Born Of God’s seed,.....the reason I say this is, you believe you still sin..yet Gods word you deny....when he tells us a Born Again doesn’t sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed........... that’s why most of your posts, imo are full of confusion...

We are Born Of The Spirit....the Spirit that our spirits are Born Again of is Gods seed, .......”Spirit gives birth to spirit “ His Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...that is the part you need to understand in your heart/ spirit....the seed is the Living Holy Spirit and Jesus explains so beautifully to Nicodemus how we are Born Of That seed....which means the seed is the Holy Spirit...Born Again.....our spirit is Born Again my lovely.....it comes from death ( spiritual) to life by the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit.....this is why we rebuke each other on what it means to be Born Again.....completely at opposite ends of spiritual understanding and knowledge.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that we are Born Again by the cross.or by looking to the cross, that I’m afraid is man made doctrine.....were you taught to believe this by someone?...we are Born Again by the Spirit, only he can make our spirit/ heart right with God....I post Gods word always on how we are Born Of The Spirit.

I don’t add to Gods word and make it say what I want it to say...we can’t do that my friend....we can only become Born Again by Gods Spirit and only Gods Spirit.

Gods word does not deceive...unfortunately mans does .


All Born Again scripture has exactly the same meaning.

We are Born Again via Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods Children.

That my friend is the Living spiritual birth, that is delivered straight to the heart / spirit of Gods child.

God opens our heart/ spirit , as we were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world to become Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

That is my testimony and it’s “ Rock solid”:not only in The Living Holy Spirit, it’s also” Rock Solid” in His written word....In Jesus Name Amen!

You cannot my friend “ read your way” into the Kingdom Of God.

John 16:13-15New King James Version (NKJV) However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

And he does! God never lies, this is his truth which is delivered straight to our heart/ spirit , then backed up by His written word.

To be led by the Spirit is mind blowing.....same as when we’re under his influence nothing can stop his words from flowing out of our mouths....
I can’t get enough of God using me for his purpose and plan, via his Spirit....notice also a Born Again Glorifies the Father.



My opinion/ testimony and belief.

John said

if we (he included himself) say we have no sin (like you are claiming) we deceive our self and there is no truth in us

he also told us to confess our sins when we sin. If we are sinless. we would have nothing to confess

James tells us to confess our sins to one another. If we could be sinless again we would not need to commanded to confess our sins.

You can make paragraph after paragraph trying to explain your refusal to take Gods word as written. It will nto help you.

If you claim you do not sin. You are deceived. and there is no truth in you.

Those are the apostle John's words not mine. If you do not want to listen to me, I am fine with that. But I beg of you to listen to John..

 

[Ritajanice]

John said

if we (he included himself) say we have no sin (like you are claiming) we deceive our self and there is no truth in us

he also told us to confess our sins when we sin. If we are sinless. we would have nothing to confess

James tells us to confess our sins to one another. If we could be sinless again we would not need to commanded to confess our sins.

You can make paragraph after paragraph trying to explain your refusal to take Gods word as written. It will nto help you.

If you claim you do not sin. You are deceived. and there is no truth in you.

I do not claim that I was without sin, your doing that with your accusations.

And I do not claim that those who are Born Again do not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed....that is God claiming that not me.

I also know the reason you don’t understand his word ...which I’ve already explained to you.

Those are the apostle John's words not mine. If you do not want to listen to me, I am fine with that. But I beg of you to listen to John..

Once again you have absolutely no understanding of spiritual matters, I corrected your last post by the Spirit.

You are reading into God’s word what you see and understand....you are not reading God’s word from the power of the Spirit within us who brings it to our understanding in our heart/ spirit.

Born Of Gods seed is a Living spiritual birth...that is where you aren’t understanding....you need to understand God’s word in your spirit by listening to Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit , witnessing Gods truth to your heart/ spirit as he teaches and guides you through scripture...which you have told me the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no where in scripture where God says we are Born Again by persuading our minds to become Born Again as you said,

He did not say this You are adding words to what he says. Shame on you!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Except that is scripturally backwards and puts man in control of becoming saved.

Thats what scripture says

1. He died for the world. that WHOEVER believes...
2. God is a loving relational God. he does not force people to leave and prevent others from even having the opportunity to believe.

He gives man a choice..

Salvation begins and ends with God in control. Jesus is author and finisher of your faith.

Romans 10 tells us and the scripture is in agreement that no one seeks for God.

20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

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16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

But God seeks everyone.. Thats why no one has an excuse.

The person who suffers eternal condemnation will suffer it because they did nto believe. because they rejected Gods provision.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!!....only the incredible power of Gods Holy Spirit can draw us to Jesus....nothing on the planet can stop Gods power.

His power is beyond my comprehension..I just know there in NOTHING on the planet God can’t do....if it’s His will to do so!

Yet he desires for Israel to come to him, and they refused..

God will not force anyone against their will

 

[Ritajanice]

He did not say this You are adding words to what he says. Shame on you!

I have posted his quote, he said God said he persuaded his mind...that is not how we are Born Of The Spirit...it’s not Biblical.

Plus there is no shame in a Born Again, no condemnation my friend...you need that heart / spiritual revelation once again.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Spiritual death in us is separation from the Spirit of God, not a person, a persons spirit is separated from God’s Spirit.

That’s why we need to be Born Again..our spirit is reconciled/right before God, not a person.when our spirit becomes Born Again.

SMH

Your spirit is you.. It is what is eternal.

It (you) are either dead or alive.

You must be born again, because you are dead in trespasses and sin.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yet he desires for Israel to come to him, and they refused..

God will not force anyone against their will

Tell me how does God force us to become Born Again?

When we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again.

Again you can only understand this spiritual talk...that God speaks to us...in your own human understanding...you need to understand his word in your spirit/ heart.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Once again you have absolutely no understanding of spiritual matters, I corrected your last post by the Spirit.

You need to come off your high horse.. Your not as smart as you think you are. and you have done no such thing,.

You are reading into God’s word what you see and understand....

I am reading Gods word as it is written and taking it as fact.

You have to twist what Gods word says to even come close to what you believe it says.

you are not reading God’s word from the power of the Spirit within us who brings it to our understanding in our heart/ spirit.

You do not know if I have the spirit or not. You are not God. i suggest you stop thinking you are God.

Born Of Gods seed is a Living spiritual birth...that is where you aren’t understanding....

Oh I Understand it completely. I would suggest you stop telling people what they do or do not do. That is arrogant, that is prideful and that is out of line..

you need to understand God’s word in your spirit by listening to Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit , witnessing Gods truth to your heart/ spirit as he teaches and guides you through scripture...which you have told me the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead us.

I do that every time I read the word.

But I would suggest you do this yourself. because you read the word. and see the opposite of what the word says.

John said, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. If you claim to be without sin, which you have now done multiple times you are deceived. there is no argument,, Your argument is with John!!

 

[Ritajanice]

SMH

Your spirit is you.. It is what is eternal.

That is NOT what God’s word says...we are Born Of The Spirit...our spirit is Born Again...you is not eternal...our spirit has been set free from eternal damnation.

Me my body will be going back into the ground..my spirit has eternal life as it’s Born Again.

It (you) are either dead or alive.

You must be born again, because you are dead in trespasses and sin.

Our spirit is dead and alienated from God..we need to be Born Again...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[face2face]

Sorry, I am not sure where you get this from. But it is not logical

Not to sound consecending but few Christians understand this subject as the Apostle Paul did!

We are discussing this in another thread so no point repeating it here.

It literally means you are separated from God. there is no relationship. there is a barrier between you and God. You have no spiritual life. you are completely in the flesh.

Correct - all mankind is in this state without the knowledge of Christ.

I think sometimes people get stuck on religious words. We just need to calm and look at what it is.

No problem

Adam separated himself from God the moment he sinned. The relationship was severed. Adam was no headed to hell. because he was condemned. the wage if his sin was that seperation.

You mean the grave - all people go to the grave - lets keep this discussion Bible Based.

Example: For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol (grave), or let your holy one see corruption. Psalm 16:10

Soul means life here!

God had to restore that relationship. which he did, he even showed adam and all of us how he would do that. By covering adam with the skin of an innocent animal..

Correct - God showed Adam death to which now he and his progeny would experience. Complete and total cessation of life.

Yes, why? Because they did not believe, He who does not believe is condemned already. they need to be born again.

Sin is transgression of the Law and they received the judgement of death - i.e the wages of sin is death (complete!)

But remember, the lost has only this.. Every thought and every action is based on self.. Thats why they can not do good. no not one.

There are some that will not need resurrected. they will be caught up to meet the lord in the air..

True, not all will be raised..some will remain in the grave forever (locked up imprisoned as the analogy has it)

Plus, like Paul said., i was dead. How can I be dead. yet physically alive.. Help me understand your thinking on this

Correct - Paul is speaking about the reality of his death (physical) in that while he is alive he knows death is working in his body

For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death

Ok, yes lets use that. Could jesus have come off that cross and took over the world as he is promised he will do? Did he have to die physically. why did he die physically? He said the payment for sin was complete (it is finished)

Correct.

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

How were your sins today represented in his body on the tree?

Think, Think and pray hard about this - so important!

Physical death never had dominion over him.

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

It did and for good reason...I'm sure you will get this - you need to think about all of Pauls writings espeically those where he speaks of Jesus' nature!

Essential in understand the Victory God has in Christ.

Yes. but why

The answer has more to do with God, Who He is and What He sees as being right.

Does this help?

The fact is, however, that God has “set forth (Jesus Christ) to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:25

Can you think of How God's righteouness was declared through Jesus suffering a horendous death of the cross?

What was right about that from God's perspective?

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affection and lusts (Galatians 5:24)

Was was the declaration God made in putting Christ to death on the cross?

You have not shown how the wage of sin is physical death. So don;t take a victory lap to soon

LOL you're funny!

Remember, for that person to be made alive, he was dead.

He was dead yet he was physically alive. thus the need to be circumcised or born again.

So explain what kind of death, it was not physical.

Correct - Jesus spoke as though those who found excuses not to follow were dead already even though they were alive. The atonement can not save those who wont enter the everlasting covenent.

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was first persuaded by God in my mind, and then I received Him into my heart, and He made me born again, alive in the Spirit.

I have posted his quote, he said God said he persuaded his mind...that is not how we are Born Of The Spirit...it’s not Biblical.

Plus there is no shame in a Born Again, no condemnation my friend...you need that heart / spiritual revelation once again.

I have posted the quote you claimed you quoted

He said GOD PERSUADED HIM

He then said AFTER GOD PERSUADED HIM, he received God (john 1: 12) then he said GOD made him born again.

Once again, you prove you do not know how to read what people actually say, and this causes you to falsly accuse them