T U L I P explained

[Ritajanice]

You need to come off your high horse.. Your not as smart as you think you are. and you have done no such thing,.

I am reading Gods word as it is written and taking it as fact.

You have to twist what Gods word says to even come close to what you believe it says.

You do not know if I have the spirit or not. You are not God. i suggest you stop thinking you are God.

I said you have no spiritual knowledge or spiritual understanding...you lack heart/ spirit revelation...

Show me where I have twisted Gods word please...listen sweetie you told me last night I wasn’t Born Again..that’s a bit hypocritical my friend.

My faith has never faulted from the moment I received my gift of Faith it’s gone and going from strength to strength..because my faith is Alive and Active in the Spirit...

Oh I Understand it completely. I would suggest you stop telling people what they do or do not do. That is arrogant, that is prideful and that is out of line..

I do that every time I read the word.

But I would suggest you do this yourself. because you read the word. and see the opposite of what the word says.

John said, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. If you claim to be without sin, which you have now done multiple times you are deceived. there is no argument,, Your argument is with John!!

As I’ve already explained Gods word to you..about sin..you need heart/ spiritual revelation to understand that a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed, that is where you don’t understand..the seed that we are Born Of is Gods Living seed..which I’ve alre explained many times to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Tell me how does God force us to become Born Again?

If he makes you alive BEFORE you believe

and after this, you will believe

then in effect he forces you to believe.

whats more damning, is that in not allowing others to believe. he forces them to remain in unbelief.

When we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again.

yes. Based on Gods foreknowledge. and his will

Again you can only understand this spiritual talk...that God speaks to us...in your own human understanding...you need to understand his word in your spirit/ heart.

Non responsive, I will no longer respond to these arrogant comments anymore

 

[face2face]

God told adam, in the moment you eat of this tree. you will die

Adam died

Jesus, died on the cross. before he suffered physical death.

We are told we need to be born again, because we are dead because of sin.

So your physical death thinking is not working out to well.

I think you do not understand what spiritual death means (separation) and that may be another issue.

remember, Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body..

Spiritual death is the separation of a person from the body of Christ,

Lets park this for the moment Eternally as its crossing into other beliefs which will side track us from what God did in Christ - maybe come back to it later if thats okay?

I've highlighted in red the issue I'm referring to.

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is NOT what God’s word says...we are Born Of The Spirit...our spirit is Born Again...you is not eternal...our spirit has been set free from eternal damnation.

Me my body will be going back into the ground..my spirit has eternal life as it’s Born Again.

Our spirit is dead and alienated from God..we need to be Born Again...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You are lost in understanding

I consist of my body, of my soul. and my spirit.. It is all of me

All of me is dead because of sin, I am separated From God.. I am cut off. I am headed to hell. I must be born again.

If I become born again, My soul and spirit will remain forever in Gods presence. My body will die (unless I am ruptured) and it will be resurrected in the end

You make things to difficult. thats why you fail to understand.

and you fight so hard anyone who disagrees with you. Your mind is closed and you will never understand unless you open up.

 

[Ritajanice]

If he makes you alive BEFORE you believe

If he makes what Alive?..you keep saying “ you” that’s not Gods word..so I ask again what does Gods Spirit make Alive in you?

and after this, you will believe

You cannot believe in God until you are Born Again..you believe in God in your spirit that is where Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit Witnesses Gods Truth to your heart/spirit, then you check out what he witnesses to our heart/spirit with scripture.

then in effect he forces you to believe.

Forces you to believe what?

We are Born Again by the Spirit we aren’t Born Again by believing in our human understanding.

whats more damning, is that in not allowing others to believe. he forces them to remain in unbelief.

God can do whatever he pleases, only he can bring our spirit from death to life, when he makes our spirit Born Again ,via His Spirit.

yes. Based on Gods foreknowledge. and his will

Non responsive, I will no longer respond to these arrogant comments anymore

No, God said he chose and predestined us to become Born Again, just as His word says...

 

[Ritajanice]

You are lost in understanding

I consist of my body, of my soul. and my spirit.. It is all of me

Sorry, that is not how God says we are Born Again..by our body and soul...he says Spirit gives birth to spirit...Born Of The Spirit/ Born Again of imperishable/incorruptible seed.Born Again...our spirit is Born Again..

All of me is dead because of sin, I am separated From God.. I am cut off. I am headed to hell. I must be born again.

Not biblical..your spirit is alienated from God..how can your body of flesh be alienated from God...when God is Spirit?

We live in a body of sin..our spirit is reconciled back to God not our body as I’ve already explained our body is temporary it goes back into the ground..our spirit is eternal and set free from eternal damnation.

If I become born again, My soul and spirit will remain forever in Gods presence. My body will die (unless I am ruptured) and it will be resurrected in the end

Our spirit is Born Again..just as Gods word says..you’ve just voiced your opinion..your body goes back to dust...we will have resurrected bodies not bodies of flesh.

You make things to difficult. thats why you fail to understand.

and you fight so hard anyone who disagrees with you. Your mind is closed and you will never understand unless you open up.

Once again your own opinion as usual.

 

[face2face]

If he makes what Alive?..you keep saying “ you” that’s not Gods word..so I ask again what does Gods Spirit make Alive in you?

You cannot believe in God until you are Born Again..you believe in God in your spirit that is where Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit Witnesses Gods Truth to your heart/spirit, then you check out what he witnesses to our heart/spirit with scripture.

Forces you to believe what?

We are Born Again by the Spirit we aren’t Born Again by believing in our human understanding.

God can do whatever he pleases, only he can bring our spirit from death to life, when he makes our spirit Born Again ,via His Spirit.

No, God said he chose and predestined us to become Born Again, just as His word says...

Rita, I'm not following what you are saying here.

When do you think Jesus was saved? At what point?

- His Conception
- His Birth
- His Growing in wisdom as a child
- His Baptism
- His Death
- His Resurrection

@Eternally Grateful interested in your thoughts also.

F2F (Hebrews 5:7-8 is a strong clue!)

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita, I'm not following what you are saying here.

When do you think Jesus was saved? At what point?

- His Conception
- His Birth
- His Growing in wisdom as a child
- His Baptism
- His Death
- His Ressurection

@Eternally Grateful interested in your thoughts also.

F2F (Hebrews 5:7-8 is a strong clue!)

What on earth are you talking about...Jesus was God in the flesh...he had a divine nature not a nature like you and I.

Posted wrong scripture below...apologies.

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not to sound consecending but few Christians understand this subject as the Apostle Paul did!

We are discussing this in another thread so no point repeating it here.

I understand it as paul did. so not sure exactly what you mean here

Correct - all mankind is in this state without the knowledge of Christ.

Yes. this is called the state of being dead. its why we need to be born again to see the kingdom of God.

No problem

You mean the grave - all people go to the grave - lets keep this discussion Bible Based.

No, I mean he was dead. He was condemned.

Whoever does not believe is condemned already

Not everyone will die..

Example: For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol (grave), or let your holy one see corruption. Psalm 16:10

Yes. God will nto abandon his soul in the grave.. Physical death has no power over us. Because we were made alive in Christ. As paul said. to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord

Soul means life here!

I can see this.. But I do not see the point.. I am alive now. I was dead. when I die physically. I will still be alive..

Correct - God showed Adam death to which now he and his progeny would experience. Complete and total cessation of life.

I do not think that is what God was tryign to show him.

He was tryign to show him redemption. I am covering your nakendess (sin) with this unblemished animal

Sin is transgression of the Law and they received the judgement of death - i.e the wages of sin is death (complete!)

sorry it is hard to keep up. I have to keep going back to see what this is response too.

Jesus told Nicodemus, Whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believes is condemned already.

other passages

John 3: 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5: 4 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Unbelief is the unpardonable in, Jesus paid for all other sin.

True, not all will be raised..some will remain in the grave forever (locked up imprisoned as the analogy has it)

Actually, some will be delivered to christ for judgment, and sent to outer darkness.. God calls it the second death.

Correct - Paul is speaking about the reality of his death (physical) in that while he is alive he knows death is working in his body

For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death

No, Paul said he was dead.. He even said in eph 2, we were dead, and we were made alive

Correct.

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

How were your sins today represented in his body on the tree?

God poured his wrath on the son.. While his son was physically alive..

Think, Think and pray hard about this - so important!

I would suggest you do the same

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

Yes. What did his resurrection prove? Why was it so important?

It did and for good reason...I'm sure you will get this - you need to think about all of Pauls writings espeically those where he speaks of Jesus' nature!

Essential in understand the Victory God has in Christ.

I am not sure what you are trying to get at here.

The answer has more to do with God, Who He is and What He sees as being right.

Does this help?

No. Because it does not explain why God roses Jesus from the dead. This is important..

The fact is, however, that God has “set forth (Jesus Christ) to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:25

Can you think of How God's righteouness was declared through Jesus suffering a horendous death of the cross?

Yes. He was seperated from the father for the first time in all eternity.

What do you think made him scream?

What was right about that from God's perspective?

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affection and lusts (Galatians 5:24)

Yes, Christ did not serve self (that is what that means, you crucify your right to serve self. and in turn serve everyone else. Thats what Jesus did

Was was the declaration God made in putting Christ to death on the cross?

It was the only means of redemption.. An innocent had to suffer for the guilty..

LOL you're funny!

I am not trying to be, I am serious. You still have not convinced me

Correct - Jesus spoke as though those who found excuses not to follow were dead already even though they were alive. The atonement can not save those who wont enter the everlasting covenent.

F2F

and how do we enter that covenant?

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita, I'm not following what you are saying here.

When do you think Jesus was saved? At what point?

- His Conception
- His Birth
- His Growing in wisdom as a child
- His Baptism
- His Death
- His Resurrection

@Eternally Grateful interested in your thoughts also.

F2F (Hebrews 5:7-8 is a strong clue!)

For in him [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily (Colossians 2:9 ESV). God2 was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1Timothy 3:16KJV).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I said you have no spiritual knowledge or spiritual understanding...you lack heart/ spirit revelation...

Thats arrogant. You do not know me at all

Show me where I have twisted Gods word please...listen sweetie you told me last night I wasn’t Born Again..that’s a bit hypocritical my friend.

I and many have showed you

and I did not say you were not born again, I said I doubted it.. There you go twisting again.

My faith has never faulted from the moment I received my gift of Faith it’s gone and going from strength to strength..because my faith is Alive and Active in the Spirit...

As I’ve already explained Gods word to you..about sin..you need heart/ spiritual revelation to understand that a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed, that is where you don’t understand..the seed that we are Born Of is Gods Living seed..which I’ve alre explained many times to you.

lol..

He who is born of God does not sin (literally habitually sin, or live in sin) because he has been born of God.

This does not say they never sin again..

You can;t explain Gods word to me if you do not understand it yourself.

 

[Scott Downey]

Amen!!....only the incredible power of Gods Holy Spirit can draw us to Jesus....nothing on the planet can stop Gods power.

His power is beyond my comprehension..I just know there in NOTHING on the planet God can’t do....if it’s His will to do so!

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God​

18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[face2face]

What on earth are you talking about...Jesus was God in the flesh...he had a divine nature not a nature like you and I.

@Eternally Grateful see what I mean - Rita doesnt know the Lord Jesus Christ, or what he went through because she has false teaching in her.

In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Hebrews 5:7

So when was he saved?

(did you see this is another verse which shows you Christ was under condemnation of death - death had dominion over him!)

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lets park this for the moment Eternally as its crossing into other beliefs which will side track us from what God did in Christ - maybe come back to it later if thats okay?

I've highlighted in red the issue I'm referring to.

F2F

if you would like we can open another thread.. and focus on this calvinistic lie,.

 

[Ritajanice]

Thats arrogant. You do not know me at all

Stop being a hypocrite, you told me I wasn’t Born Again did I react to your accusations..no I didn’t, I welcomed it.

I and many have showed you

and I did not say you were not born again, I said I doubted it.. There you go twisting again.

You told JBO a few months back that I wasn’t Born Again...

lol..

He who is born of God does not sin (literally habitually sin, or live in sin) because he has been born of God.

This does not say they never sin again..

You can;t explain Gods word to me if you do not understand it yourself.

I’ve already explained A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed....you just don’t understand the word of God in your spirit/ heart...that’s why you rebuke Gods word...because you can only understand his word in that area in you own human understanding and not in the spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If he makes what Alive?..you keep saying “ you” that’s not Gods word..so I ask again what does Gods Spirit make Alive in you?

Ephesians 2:1

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,​

Please do not tell me it is not in Gods word. There is is in black and white.

God made ME ALIVE.

Stop with your nonsense

You cannot believe in God until you are Born Again.

Thats a lie

You can not be born again UNTIL you believe

.you believe in God in your spirit that is where Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit Witnesses Gods Truth to your heart/spirit, then you check out what he witnesses to our heart/spirit with scripture.

Forces you to believe what?

We are Born Again by the Spirit we aren’t Born Again by believing in our human understanding.

God can do whatever he pleases, only he can bring our spirit from death to life, when he makes our spirit Born Again ,via His Spirit.

No, God said he chose and predestined us to become Born Again, just as His word says...

You are not getting it..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry, that is not how God says we are Born Again..by our body and soul...he says Spirit gives birth to spirit...Born Of The Spirit/ Born Again of imperishable/incorruptible seed.Born Again...our spirit is Born Again..

Not biblical..your spirit is alienated from God..how can your body of flesh be alienated from God...when God is Spirit?

We live in a body of sin..our spirit is reconciled back to God not our body as I’ve already explained our body is temporary it goes back into the ground..our spirit is eternal and set free from eternal damnation.

Our spirit is Born Again..just as Gods word says..you’ve just voiced your opinion..your body goes back to dust...we will have resurrected bodies not bodies of flesh.

Once again your own opinion as usual.

again

You have no comprehension of what it means..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Rita, I'm not following what you are saying here.

When do you think Jesus was saved? At what point?

- His Conception
- His Birth
- His Growing in wisdom as a child
- His Baptism
- His Death
- His Resurrection

@Eternally Grateful interested in your thoughts also.

F2F (Hebrews 5:7-8 is a strong clue!)

Jesus did not need saved. so I do not understand your question

 

[Ritajanice]

@Eternally Grateful see what I mean - Rita doesnt know the Lord Jesus Christ, or what he went through because she has false teaching in her.

In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Hebrews 5:7

So when was he saved?

(did you see this is another verse which shows you Christ was under condemnation of death - death had dominion over him!)

F2F

Jesus was God in the flesh.....unfortunately you are the false teacher by saying that Jesus needed saving, completely and utterly false and unbiblical.

Jesus never died spiritually on that cross, if he had he would have ceased to be God...His body died not his Spirit..he was resurrected and had a spiritual body..

It’s his spirit that we are Born Again of @face2face not his body.

 

[Ritajanice]

again

You have no comprehension of what it means..

In your own opinion..