Revelation chapter 20 - Gog and Magog

[TribulationSigns]

Ezekiel Chapter 39 was fulfilled long ago, when the battle was fought with wooden weapons, when Israel returned from their Babylonian Captivity to Jerusalem to build the temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46

No. You have not answered my question in the past. When EXACTLY did Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled "long ago" with so-called wooden weapons? To believe that Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled when Israel returned from the Babylonian captivity is ABSURD. No record of Bible History anywhere in Bible to confirm Ezekiel 39! You made it up!

 

[quietthinker]

Where does Revelation 20:7-9 indicate that those who go up against "the camp of the saints" had previously been resurrected?

It's a matter of joining the dots well SI.
The wicked from all ages are obviously all alive which implies they have been resurrected. Prior to that Satan has been 'chained' to a desolate Earth for 1000 yrs. Now he convinces the uncountable hordes it was through his power they have come back to life.

 

[Truth7t7]

What evidence, if any, do you have to indicate that the 2nd Zerubabbel Temple in Jerusalem that was built around 536BC resembled what is described in Ezekiel 40-46? I'm just wondering how you came to this conclusion. It helps if you actually back up your claims with some kind of evidence, but maybe that doesn't matter to you.

You didn't respond post #128 above that deals directly with the subject of Ezekiel chapters 40-46, as you "Falsely Claim" I don't back my claims with evidence, and then you interject a personal attack in sarcasm in that "It doesn't matter to me"

Once again post #128 copied and pasted below, hard to believe you would hurl such personal attacks and claims in defamation of my christian character, im deeply hurt and lost for words, astonished!

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True​

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.


Wikipedia: Zerubbabel
In the biblical narrative, Zerubbabel led the first group of Jews, numbering 42,360, who returned from the Babylonian captivity in the first year of Cyrus the Great, the king of the Achaemenid Empire.[6] The date is generally thought to have been between 538 and 520 BC.[7] Zerubbabel also laid the foundation of the Second Temple in Jerusalem soon after. In the New Testament he is included in the genealogy of Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel Chapter 39 was fulfilled long ago, when the battle was fought with wooden weapons, when Israel returned from their Babylonian Captivity to Jerusalem to build the temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46

In Ezekiel 39:1-6, God destroys the Gog/Magog invading armies against Israel at the time of the invasion.

That did not happen when the Jews went into the Babylonian captivity.

---------------------------------------------------------

And there was no Gog/Magog event after the Jews retruned from the Babylonian Captivity.

 

[Truth7t7]

No. You have not answered my question in the past. When EXACTLY did Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled "long ago" with so-called wooden weapons? To believe that Ezekiel 39 was fulfilled when Israel returned from the Babylonian captivity is ABSURD. No record of Bible History anywhere in Bible to confirm Ezekiel 39! You made it up!

Perhaps you need to study the record of battles surrounding Israel, a good start would be Ezekiel chapter 32 and the many armies mentioned to be killed

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

 

[Truth7t7]

In Ezekiel 39:1-6, God destroys the Gog/Magog invading armies against Israel at the time of the invasion.

That did not happen when the Jews went into the Babylonian captivity.

---------------------------------------------------------

And there was no Gog/Magog event after the Jews retruned from the Babylonian Captivity.

Please refer to post #165 above

 

[Douggg]

Perhaps you need to study the record of battles surrounding Israel, a good start would be Ezekiel chapter 32 and the many armies mentioned to be killed

The armies to be killed in Ezekiel 32 are by the king of Babylon in Ezekiel 32:11.

In Ezekiel 39, God destroys the Gog/Magog armies, not the king of Babylon.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's a matter of joining the dots well SI.
They wicked from all ages are obviously all alive which implies, they have been resurrected.

How are you coming to the conclusion that the wicked from all ages are alive in Revelation 20:7-9? Where does it say that? So far, you are doing nothing to back up your claims. Explain how you are coming to your conclusions.

Prior to that Satan has been 'chained' to a desolate Earth for 1000 yrs. Now he convinces the uncountable hordes it was through his power they have come back to life.

Desolate earth? Where does it say that? You're just making things up. This is something Seventh-Day Adventists typically believe. Are you SDA?

 

[Truth7t7]

IOW, if some of us correct this means you are basically mocking what God is going to do in the future. I'll just leave it that. I wrote some more things as well but decided to delete them before I posted this.

Nothing future about Ezekiel Chapter 39 in wooden weapons and their return from the Babylonian Captivity "Fulfilled" long ago

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You didn't respond post #128 above that deals directly with the subject of Ezekiel chapters 40-46, as you "Falsely Claim" I don't back my claims with evidence, and then you interject a personal attack in sarcasm in that "It doesn't matter to me"

Once again post #128 copied and pasted below, hard to believe you would hurl such personal attacks and claims in defamation of my christian character, im deeply hurt and lost for words, astonished!

LOL. No, you are not "deeply hurt and lost for words, astonished!". I'm pretty sure you are not that easily offended. Give me a break. You are an expert at making personal attacks and false accusations, so I don't see how you can be offended by them. LOL.

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True​

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.


Wikipedia: Zerubbabel
In the biblical narrative, Zerubbabel led the first group of Jews, numbering 42,360, who returned from the Babylonian captivity in the first year of Cyrus the Great, the king of the Achaemenid Empire.[6] The date is generally thought to have been between 538 and 520 BC.[7] Zerubbabel also laid the foundation of the Second Temple in Jerusalem soon after. In the New Testament he is included in the genealogy of Jesus.

What I'm asking you for evidence of is that the Zerubbabel temple resembled what is described in Ezekiel 40-46. What you're saying here is not evidence that the Zerubbabel temple resembled the description of the temple given in Ezekiel 40-46. Just giving info about the building of the Zerubbabel temple does not mean it fit the description we read in Ezekiel 40-46. So, I ask again. Is there any kind of evidence to show that the Zerubbabel temple resembled the description of the temple written in Ezekiel 40-46? If not, so be it. You can still believe the Zerubbabel temple is that temple if you want. I don't care. I'm not saying one way or another whether it is or not. I personally believe that the Ezekiel 40-46 prophecy was conditional because of Ezekiel 43:10-11, but all I know for sure is that it can't possibly refer to a future temple and we agree on that.

I'm simply asking if you have any concrete evidence to back up the claim that Ezekiel 40-46 is a description of the Zerubbabel temple. You shouldn't be offended by someone asking you to provide evidence to back up your claims.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Perhaps you need to study the record of battles surrounding Israel, a good start would be Ezekiel chapter 32 and the many armies mentioned to be killed

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

I know what I have studied on Ezekiel and even Old Testament books for years. None of these verses you quoted has proved your claim on "long ago" battle with wooden weapons without knowing the Bible history of when and location. What a joke.

 

[Douggg]

Nothing future about Ezekiel Chapter 39 in wooden weapons and their return from the Babylonian Captivity "Fulfilled" long ago

There was no Gog/Magog event after the return from the Babylonian Captivity. Ezekiel 39 is still future.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You're just making things up.

Yes, Quiet thinker often do.

 

[Truth7t7]

The armies to be killed in Ezekiel 32 are by the king of Babylon in Ezekiel 32:11.

In Ezekiel 39, God destroys the Gog/Magog armies, not the king of Babylon.

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Jeremiah the prophet to Israel in the Babylonian Captivity proclaims below

1.) King Nebuchadnezzar Was God's Servant
2.) God Used The Hand Of Nebuchadnezzar To Consume The Armies

(Until I Have Consumed Them By His Hand)

Jeremiah 27:6-8KJV
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the Lord, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

 

[Douggg]

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

The king of Babylon is not in Ezekiel 38-39.

 

[Truth7t7]

The king of Babylon is not in Ezekiel 38-39.

(Until I Have Consumed Them By His Hand)

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Jeremiah the prophet to Israel in the Babylonian Captivity proclaims below

1.) King Nebuchadnezzar Was God's Servant
2.) God Used The Hand Of Nebuchadnezzar To Consume The Armies

(Until I Have Consumed Them By His Hand)

Jeremiah 27:6-8KJV
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the Lord, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

 

[Douggg]

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Jeremiah the prophet to Israel in the Babylonian Captivity proclaims below

1.) King Nebuchadnezzar Was God's Servant
2.) God Used The Hand Of Nebuchadnezzar To Consume The Armies

Gog is not mentioned in Ezekiel 32.

The king of Babylon is not in Ezekiel 38-39.

The nations in Ezekiel 32 are not attacking Israel.

 

[grafted branch]

This is what currently makes the most sense to me as well. Clearly, the time when God poured out His Spirit on the house of Israel was on the day of Pentecost long ago, so I don't know how anyone would not think of Acts 2 when reading that verse.

I still don't know if Ezekiel 38-39 is describing a literal physical battle with ancient weapons, though. Is there any historical evidence of any kind to show that such a battle actually took place?

Yes, there is overwhelming evidence for the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38-39 to be the events in Esther. I was skeptical at first but after looking into it I saw just how difficult and problematic it is to place that in the future, even though Revelation 20 has a Gog/Magog event (which I think has to be a spiritual Gog/Magog).

Here is some of the things I found, I’ll start with Ezekiel 38:1-3.

Ezekiel 38:1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

The chief prince of Meshech and Tubal is Gog, which is Haman.



Ezekiel was expecting his readers to reach into the past and recall the Table of Nations in Genesis 10. This is the list of the 70 nations that descended from Noah’s three sons Japheth, Ham, and Seth. There are 14 descendants of Japheth (Gen. 10:2-5), 30 descendants of Ham (Gen. 10:6-19), and 26 descendants of Shem (Gen. 10:20-29). Notice that Magog is in that first grouping of nations, among the direct descendants of Japheth, as well as Meshech and Tubal – Gog’s allies in Ezekiel 38:2.

Ezekiel is taking us all the way back to the very first nations after the flood and informing us that Gog’s lineage can be traced here. Numbers 24:20 tells us that Amalek was “the first of the nations.” Gog’s identity doesn’t lay in the future but in the far-distant past.

Esther tells us that Haman was an “Agagite” (Esth. 3:1,10; 8:3,5; 9:24), referring to the descendants of Agag – the king of the Amalekites, now an Agagite is a Gogite, and here is how that is arrived at …

Numbers 24:7 (KJV) He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.

Numbers 24:7 (LXX) There shall come a man out of his seed, and he shall rule over many nations; and the kingdom of Gog shall be exalted, and his kingdom shall be increased.

Looking at these two renderings of Numbers 24:7, we see that Agag and Gog are really one and the same. Apparently there are some LXX manuscripts that use the word “Gogite” instead of “Agagite” in Esther 3:1 and Esther 9:24 (Lewis B. Paton, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Book of Esther, page 194).





This is just the tip of the iceberg, I would have to make ten or fifteen posts to give you all the info I have on this. I haven’t done a search on the internet in a while on this but there are some sites that give a verses by verse explanation of how Ezekiel 38-39 is fulfilled in Esther. I think I searched for “Ezekiel 38-39 fulfilled in Esther”, if you do a search you should be able to get all the answers about this topic you need.

 

[grafted branch]

Do you think so? Are you reading my mind? What made you think I see the plagues of Exodus as spiritual? Why is that?

Because you see everything spiritually and I would say everything can have a spiritual meaning but there are some things that do take place literally, like the Ezekiel 38-39 events and the OT plagues.

 

[grafted branch]

Point out some things that Esther records that agrees with things Ezekiel 38-39 records. A good place to start would be to show us in Esther what matches, thus agrees with what Ezekiel 38:16-23 records.

EZEKIEL 38:16, 22
You will come up against My people, Israel, like a cloud covering the land. … With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with [Gog] and his hordes.



ESTHER 9:16
Now, the rest of the Jews who were in the king’s provinces also gathered to defend their lives and got relief from their enemies and killed 75,000 of those who hated them, but they laid no hands on the plunder.



Esther 9 says the Jews killed 75,000 people on their own, so it makes sense that the number killed by God would be even higher. It’s also important to note how these Persians died. Ezekiel 38 says that the invaders turn on one another and kill each other, and according to Esther, that’s exactly what happened in Haman’s failed genocide.



EZEKIEL 38:21
‘I will summon a sword against Gog on all My mountains,’ declares the Lord, Yahweh. ‘Every man’s sword will be against his brother.’



ESTHER 8:17; 9:3
Many from the peoples of the country declared themselves Jews, for fear of the Jews had fallen on them. … All the officials of the provinces and the satraps and the governors and the royal agents also helped the Jews, for the fear of Mordecai had fallen on them.



There were many in the Achaemenid Empire that declared themselves to be Jews and fought alongside them, and there were many provincial leaders who defended the Jews themselves. Thus, the Persians were divided in their genocide against the Jews. Some sought to kill the Jews, while others sought to defend the Jews, resulting in Persians shedding Persian blood. This fits perfectly with the events of Ezekiel 38

When we compare Esther 8-9 and Ezekiel 38-39, we see multiple strong parallels. In both, the conflict encompasses the entirety of the Persian Empire. In both, the Gentiles attempt a genocide against the Jews, and in both, Israel’s enemy turns on itself. With these parallels in mind, we can conclude once again that Ezekiel’s prophecy does not describe a future event in human history, but rather a fulfilled event in ancient history.