Revelation chapter 20 - Gog and Magog

[Truth7t7]

It does not even come close.

The Gog/Magog attack takes place in the latter years, latter days. There was no mass attack on Israel by an alliance of nations listed in Ezekiel 38:2-6. There was no mass grave site of the bodies of Gog's army in a place to known as the valley of Hamongog.

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Jeremiah the prophet to Israel in the Babylonian Captivity proclaims below

1.) King Nebuchadnezzar Was God's Servant
2.) God Used The Hand Of Nebuchadnezzar To Consume The Armies

(Until I Have Consumed Them By His Hand)

Jeremiah 27:6-8KJV
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the Lord, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

King Nebuchadnezzar's Army Destroyed In Ezekiel Chapter 32 Seen Below

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

Ezekiel 39:11KJV
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

 

[Douggg]

God used King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to destroy Gog the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Jeremiah the prophet to Israel in the Babylonian Captivity proclaims below

1.) King Nebuchadnezzar Was God's Servant
2.) God Used The Hand Of Nebuchadnezzar To Consume The Armies

(Until I Have Consumed Them By His Hand)

Jeremiah 27:6-8KJV
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
7 And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
8 And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the Lord, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

Ezekiel 38:3KJV
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 39:1KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

King Nebuchadnezzar's Army Destroyed In Ezekiel Chapter 32 Seen Below

Ezekiel 32:26-28KJV
26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword.

Ezekiel 39:11KJV
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Ezekiel 32 is not an attack on Israel. The Gog/Magog nations in Ezekiel 38-39 attack Israel.

 

[quietthinker]

I didn't misunderstand anything, when Jesus returns the event of the resurrection takes place in (the twinkling/blink of an eye)

It teaches when Jesus returns the resurrection takes place in this time (The Twinkling/Blinking Of An Eye) (Then Cometh The End)

Yes, you are right. I misread your previous statement. I apologise.

 

[quietthinker]

Your scenario of nuclear missiles being launched and nuclear war taking place doesn't fit into this part of God's picture

I didn't think you would take this onboard, not that it matters,....although I could say more why I consider this, so let's drop it.
My conjecture, and I emphasise 'conjecture' in this case, was an attempt to join certain (unspoken of) dots.

 

[wooddog]

You claim there's a 1,000 year gap between the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, while scripture clearly teaches the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked takes place at the second coming on the last day

"All" that are in the Graves

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You claim the wicked die of suicide or heart attacks at the return of Jesus, scripture shows they're smoked by the Lord's fire in final judgment as seen in Luke 17:29-30

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Your claim is false, the dead can hear Christ at any time he wishes to speak to them. ANY TIME

 

[grafted branch]

It does not even come close.

The Gog/Magog attack takes place in the latter years, latter days. There was no mass attack on Israel by an alliance of nations listed in Ezekiel 38:2-6. There was no mass grave site of the bodies of Gog's army in a place to known as the valley of Hamongog.

What exactly do yo suppose latter years or latter days means? Any time after the cross? Any time after the rapture? Any time after the millennium?

The latter days of Daniel 2:28 are explained in Daniel 2:29 with the statement of “what should come to pass hereafter”. Since the Persian empire came to pass after the Babylonian empire then the latter days of Ezekiel 38:16 could also have had the Persian empire in view. In fact that is exactly what Ezekiel 38:5 is showing.

Ezekiel 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Why would Ezekiel, who lived during the Babylonian empire, prophesy about a different Persia than the one that took place after Babylon? Where else in the scriptures does a prophecy not mean the very next one thing it prophesied but skips the next one and really means a still future one?

 

[Davidpt]

I still don't know if Ezekiel 38-39 is describing a literal physical battle with ancient weapons, though. Is there any historical evidence of any kind to show that such a battle actually took place?

Why don't you already know that can't be true? You are obviously intelligent, therefore, you are without excuse. Just use your brain here for a moment. After all, these events are involving the last days. If the last days didn't even begin until Christ came first 2000 years ago, how then is it logical that there could already be the last days that came and went before the last days even arrive first? Like I pointed out in another post to someone recently, last days require a last day eventually, otherwise they are not the last days.


You have pointed out to me in the past that I only think I'm being logical about things but in reality I'm not being logical about anything. As if, anyone that thinks there could already be the last days before the last days arrive, that that is perfectly reasonable, thus logical. If it's logical what was the last day of those last days? And how could they be the last days to begin with if there are some more last days, different last days that follow those last days?

In the Bible the last days, in both the OT and NT, obviously imply the final days leading up to when 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. And once that passage is fulfilled we know that everything involving judgment is behind us and that there will never be any judgments ever again, meaning in regards to punishments.

I don't care how you choose to interpret Ezekiel 38-39, after all, those 2 chapters are difficult to interpret. I don't have a problem admitting they are difficult to interpret. Do yourself a favor, though. Just apply it to the correct era of time at least. None of it can be involving before Christ came if these 2 chapters are involving the last days and that the last days can't even begin until Christ came first.

As to the last verse in Ezekiel 39, none of that is true until after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude first. Therefore, to apply that last verse to the day of Pentecost per Acts 2 is nonsencical unless God already executed His judgment on Gog and his multitude prior to that. Only someone with poor reading comprehension could take the last verse in Ezekiel 39 to be meaning before God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude rather than after He does that.

The point being, since Ezekiel 39:29 can't get fulfilled until God has executed His judgment on Gog and his multitude first, one can't insist verse 29 was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost while agreeing God hasn't executed His judgment on Gog and his multitude yet. That is a contradiction. The only way verse 29 can be involving Acts 2 is if God already executed His judgment on Gog and his multitude prior to when Acts 2 is meaning. But then you end up with another contradiction.

These things in Ezekiel 38-39 are involving the last days and that the last days can't even begin until Christ comes first, which He already did. Which means if verse 29 can be applied to Acts 2, and that the last days can't begin until Christ has come first, this would mean God executed His judgment on Gog and his multitude sometime after Christ was born but prior to when Acts 2 is meaning. Which of course is preposterous. It's clues like this that should tell any thinking person that Acts 2 can't fit verse 29.

 

[Douggg]

What exactly do yo suppose latter years or latter days means? Any time after the cross? Any time after the rapture? Any time after the millennium?

latter days means - in the days of the ten kings that the little horn person will emerge from (I will prove it below). We are living in the latter days. The Gog/Magog event is close.

The latter days of Daniel 2:28 are explained in Daniel 2:29 with the statement of “what should come to pass hereafter”. Since the Persian empire came to pass after the Babylonian empire then the latter days of Ezekiel 38:16 could also have had the Persian empire in view. In fact that is exactly what Ezekiel 38:5 is showing.

No, the Persian empire is not in the latter days, because the latter days is the days of the ten toe kings.

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; kjv

I want you continue reading through the rest of Daniel 2 to the end. What verse do you next see "days" ? It is in verse 44.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The latter days is referring to the time of the ten toes, Those ten kings, which the little horn person will emerge from.

Look at my chart about the little horn person. And then my chart on the Gog/Magog event.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ezekiel 32 is not an attack on Israel. The Gog/Magog nations in Ezekiel 38-39 attack Israel.

Your claim is "False"

God brought Gog to the mountains of Israel to the slaughter by Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon

Ezekiel 39:1-4KJV
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

 

[grafted branch]

The latter days is referring to the time of the ten toes, Those ten kings, which the little horn person will emerge from.

Look at my chart about the little horn person. And then my chart on the Gog/Magog event.

Jeremiah 48:47 Yet will I bring again the captivity of Moab in the latter days, saith the LORD. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.

I don’t see Moab on your chart anywhere. When will the captivity of Moab take place? There currently aren’t any Moabites around anymore.

 

[Davidpt]

Jeremiah 48:47 Yet will I bring again the captivity of Moab in the latter days, saith the LORD. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.

I don’t see Moab on your chart anywhere. When will the captivity of Moab take place? There currently aren’t any Moabites around anymore.

The Moabs could be on his chart except maybe they are no longer known as the Moabs in our day and time. That being one possible solution.

 

[grafted branch]

The Moabs could be on his chart except maybe they are no longer known as the Moabs in our day and time. That being one possible solution.

Sure, but we still should be able to determine who the modern day Moabites are.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

 

[Douggg]

God brought Gog to the mountains of Israel to the slaughter by Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon

You are claiming that Ezekiel 32 is the Ezekiel 38-39 attack on Israel. But Israel is not mentioned anywhere in the text of Ezekiel 32.

 

[Douggg]

I don’t see Moab on your chart anywhere. When will the captivity of Moab take place? There currently aren’t any Moabites around anymore.

My chart does not feature Moab.

The left side of the chart indicates the Gog/Magog event and what takes place afterward, i.e. the 7 years, the Armageddon event, Jesus's return.

The chart is actually fairly simple to read, but puts every thing in its proper place. The right side is about the millennium related events.

 

[Davidpt]

Sure, but we still should be able to determine who the modern day Moabites are.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.


Some of us, probably not including you though, take this verse to be involving the final days of this present age, and that it mentions Moab.

The interesting thing about some of this, those that insist Daniel 11:41 is meaning during the days of A4E, is this.

The Moabites were conquered by the Babylonians in 583 BC, and there are no records of them after that.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 167 BC.

I'm pretty sure 167 BC is later than 583 BC. So why is it then that Daniel 11:41 can be meaning during the days of A4E but can't be meaning the final days of this age? Both are later than 583 BC and that Daniel 11:41 mentions Moab.

 

[grafted branch]

My chart does not feature Moab.

The left side of the chart indicates the Gog/Magog event and what takes place afterward, i.e. the 7 years, the Armageddon event, Jesus's return.

The chart is actually fairly simple to read, but puts every thing in its proper place. The right side is about the millennium related events.



View attachment 56628

So how can we identify someone who is a Moabite? For all I know you could be a Moabite or maybe I’m a Moabite.

 

[grafted branch]

Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.


Some of us, probably not including you though, take this verse to be involving the final days of this present age, and that it mentions Moab.

The interesting thing about some of this, those that insist Daniel 11:41 is meaning during the days of A4E, is this.

The Moabites were conquered by the Babylonians in 583 BC, and there are no records of them after that.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 167 BC.

I'm pretty sure 167 BC is later than 583 BC. So why is it then that Daniel 11:41 can be meaning during the days of A4E but can't be meaning the final days of this age? Both are later than 583 BC and that Daniel 11:41 mentions Moab.

That’s a great point you’re bringing up, if Moab disappears forever in 583BC then obviously Daniel 11:41 has to take place prior to that date. Otherwise there has to be a way to figure out who is and who isn’t a Moabite.

 

[Douggg]

So how can we identify someone who is a Moabite? For all I know you could be a Moabite or maybe I’m a Moabite.

Not having studied the issue to any extent, I think a couple of factors...

1. the ancient geographic location of Moab. I looked at bible maps by others on an internet search and Moab seems to be an area east of the Dead Sea.

2. who occupies that location today.

3. are they anti-Israel ?

You and I as Christians are not Moabites.

I think that they would more likely be Muslims who desire Israel destruction.

So what do you think ?

 

[Davidpt]

if Moab disappears forever in 583BC then obviously Daniel 11:41 has to take place prior to that date.

Is that even a reasonable option, though? I wouldn't think so. Therefore, what you proposed per the 2nd option appears to be the more reasonable option.

 

[grafted branch]

Not having studied the issue to any extent, I think a couple of factors...

1. the ancient geographic location of Moab. I looked at bible maps by others on an internet search and Moab seems to be an area east of the Dead Sea.

2. who occupies that location today.

3. are they anti-Israel ?

You and I as Christians are not Moabites.

I think that they would more likely be Muslims who desire Israel destruction.

So what do you think ?

Well, what I think is that the term “latter days” just means at a future time, and not that all things that are said to take place in the latter days all take place during that specific time period.

As far as identifying who a modern day Moab is, I don’t know. This is the first time I’ve come across this issue so despite our differences I do find it interesting. If you come up with a solid solution you should start a new thread on the subject.