POSTRIB RAPTURE. A BIBLE ONLY VIEW

[rebuilder 454]

The Jewish State of Israel is not the Israel of God. They face Judgment and punishment and only a remnant will survive.
Then the true Israelites; the faithful Christian peoples will occupy all of the holy land. Psalms 37:29

There will be no rapture to heaven for anyone; except the two Witnesses.
Nothing in the Bible says that God intends to do that for His people. We must endure until the end.

Your attitude leaves much to be desired and is a poor example of forum etiquette.

Look at all the hundreds if not thousands of posts where they mock the pre-trib rapture, that has several verses behind that fact, and is so easy to defend, it's even easier than defending the deity of Jesus Doctrine.
So they deserve every taunt ,and every challenge, and exposure of such a fake Doctrine.


they even admit came from dead ancient Church fathers as a man-made Doctrine with very little understanding.
It almost reminds me of you focusing on etiquette while blatant heresy is winked at. Several verses directly address your incredible heresy of no rapture. That is flat out heresy when we can see clearly in Scripture the Gathering of the Bride to heaven. I mean even a six-year-old can understand that the Gathering of the Bride is the rapture

 

[ChristinaL]

Okay let's get started with the post tribulation Rapture Banner verse.
Matthew chapter 24 verse 31 or so, Jesus says after the tribulation he shall send his angels to gather the elect from one end of Heaven to the other.
That is the banner verse of the post tribulation Rapture Doctrine.
Maybe we can get this one in a factual dynamic at the very start.
Now in this verse Jesus is talking,and he says he's going to send his angels in the realm of Heaven and gather his elect.
That's exactly what it says.
So there's no mention of anyone being gathered from Earth (which is what we see in the actual rapture), we see Jesus coming to Earth and and he personally gathers his people.
So just in case anyone wants to try and make that say there is a post tribulation Rapture I'm bringing that verse up right from the start.
And since no post tribulation rapture adherent has commented as of yet, I thought we would just go ahead and do a little exegesis of that Banner verse.

...so nothing yet of a biblical postrib rapture.

Matthew 24 is speaking of Jesus gathering His elect survivors - those who were saved during the Trib but not before

 

[Keraz]

A false claim about "civilized countries being prosperous. Our prosperity is being rapidly consumed at the moment.

Have you visited a really poor country? If you had, you would know how lucky you are in Australia.

The heading in the NKJV for Isa 62 is Assurance of Zion's Salvation
The passage Isaiah 62:1-5 has no reference to God's earthly hosts forming a new nation in the "holy land" as you claim.

Zion; refers to the Land, not the people.
Plain reading of Isaiah 62:1-5, shows it does Prophesy a new nation in the holy Land. Confirmand by many other scriptures.

I have been looking for the verses that tells us that this will be so. Please back up your claims with scripture.

Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21

Oh well, I am happy for you to form you own fantasy in the way you understand the scriptures.

I just read and understand the plain Words of Prophecy. You seem unable to do that.

 

[Keraz]

Look at all the hundreds if not thousands of posts where they mock the pre-trib rapture, that has several verses behind that fact, and is so easy to defend, it's even easier than defending the deity of Jesus Doctrine.
So they deserve every taunt ,and every challenge, and exposure of such a fake Doctrine.


they even admit came from dead ancient Church fathers as a man-made Doctrine with very little understanding.
It almost reminds me of you focusing on etiquette while blatant heresy is winked at. Several verses directly address your incredible heresy of no rapture. That is flat out heresy when we can see clearly in Scripture the Gathering of the Bride to heaven. I mean even a six-year-old can understand that the Gathering of the Bride is the rapture

I repeat: There is nothing in the Bible that says the Lord will rapture His people to heaven.
The heresy is the pre-trib rapture. It is not scriptural and will never happen. Eventually God and heaven come to His People. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[Jay Ross]

Have you visited a really poor country? If you had, you would know how lucky you are in Australia.

Yes, I am presently spending eight weeks in Nepal which is considered a poor country, and the people are much happier than what I observe in Australia. Australia presently is experiencing God's wrath because of what Australia started doing as a nation back in 2003.

Jeremiah 51:14: - ​

The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:​

"Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,​

And they shall lift up a shout against you."​

Other nations are also in the same predicament.

Zion; refers to the Land, not the people.
Plain reading of Isaiah 62:1-5, shows it does Prophesy a new nation in the holy Land. Confirmand by many other scriptures.

Zion is a reference to a mountain, not land as you are indicating.

Here is Isaiah 62:1-5: -

Assurance of Zion's Salvation​

62:1 For Zion's sake I will not hold My peace,​

And for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest,​

Until her righteousness goes forth as brightness,​

And her salvation as a lamp that burns.​

2 The Gentiles shall see your righteousness,​

And all kings your glory.​

You shall be called by a new name,​

Which the mouth of the Lord will name.​

3 You shall also be a crown of glory​

In the hand of the Lord,​

And a royal diadem​

In the hand of your God.​

4 You shall no longer be termed Forsaken,​

Nor shall your country any more be termed Desolate;​

But you shall be called Hephzibah/My delight, and your country Beulah;​

For the Lord delights in you,​

And your country shall be married.​

5 For as a young man marries a virgin,​

So shall your sons marry you;​

And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,​

So shall your God rejoice over you.​

​

For me, this passage of scripture is speaking of a distant future event where the salvation of all peoples is assured.

Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21

Revelation 5:8-10: - 8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

"You are worthy to take the scroll,​

And to open its seals;​

For You were slain,​

And have redeemed us to God by Your blood​

Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,​

10 And have made us a kingdom and priests to our God;​

And we shall reign on the earth."​

In verse where it speaks of a "reign on earth", it is not speaking of a kingly reign but only of a "priestly reign."

Isaiah 66:18-23: - 18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the Lord, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the Lord.

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth​

Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord,​

"So shall your descendants and your name remain.​

23 And it shall come to pass​

That from one New Moon to another,​

And from one Sabbath to another,​

All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord.​

In Isaiah 66:18-23 I also do not see a kingly rule as you are suggesting, but rather I see a priestly role. In verse 21, only some will be taken to have this priestly role.

I just read and understand the plain Words of Prophecy.

Keraz, you have never been one to read the plain words of Prophecy but have continually present your own interpretation of God's Plain prophecies to line up with you own private interpretation.

You seem unable to do that.

In the prophetic passages quoted above I have not changed the context of what God has said to us the readers of His word.

Your simple statement, "You seem unable to do that.", suggests that you are the only one who can correctly interpret scripture. However, there are many members on this board who are more qualified that you to do so.

Goodbye

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 24 is speaking of Jesus gathering His elect survivors - those who were saved during the Trib but not before

It says angels gather from heaven
He sends angels to do gathering in heaven.
The church in heaven is gathered to the white horses AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB.As depicted in Rev 19.
That is what you are reading and modifying to fit doctrine.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I repeat: There is nothing in the Bible that says the Lord will rapture His people to heaven.
The heresy is the pre-trib rapture. It is not scriptural and will never happen. Eventually God and heaven come to His People. Revelation 21:1-7

Then just remove the pretrib rapture verses from the Bible since you can not address them.

 

[ChristinaL]

It says angels gather from heaven
He sends angels to do gathering in heaven.
The church in heaven is gathered to the white horses AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB.As depicted in Rev 19.
That is what you are reading and modifying to fit doctrine.

NO I AM NOT. The pre trib rapture is where Jesus gathers His bride to heaven. To the Father's mansion IN HEAVEN. The end of the Trib is where Jesus gathers His elect Trib Saints to join Him IN JERUSALEM

 

[marks]

If I had no knowledge of the Bible I would say Jeff has a point there, but the council of the Bible must be considered.
Thank you Jeff.

Scripture faithfully records Job's prayer there, but we don't have certification that Job's ideas were correct. And even so . . . Job spoke concerning himself, and not concerning those who would be "in Christ", so we're talking apples and oranges.

Much love!

 

[marks]

21 For at that time there will be a great tribulation (pressure, distress, oppression), such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will [again]. 22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.

At the time Jesus gave this prophecy, who were "the chosen"? Jesus prophesied that the chosen would be gathered, and then the nations would be gathered.

So that's the big question, isn't it? When Jesus spoke this prophecy, to whom did He refer? Who are the Chosen? Who are the Nations? There really isn't any mystery here, they would have all known immediately to whom Jesus referred, the Jews, and the Gentiles.

Much love!

 

[ChristinaL]

At the time Jesus gave this prophecy, who were "the chosen"? Jesus prophesied that the chosen would be gathered, and then the nations would be gathered.

So that's the big question, isn't it? When Jesus spoke this prophecy, to whom did He refer? Who are the Chosen? Who are the Nations? There really isn't any mystery here, they would have all known immediately to whom Jesus referred, the Jews, and the Gentiles.

Much love!

The chosen are the Jewish remnant and Gentile saints who were not saved before the 7 years

 

[marks]

The chosen are the Jewish remnant and Gentile saints who were not saved before the 7 years

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is when the gentiles are gathered, some righteous and included in the kingdom, others not.

The chosen are gathered, then the nations are gathered. Israel, and the Gentiles.

Much love!

 

[Keraz]

Then just remove the pretrib rapture verses from the Bible since you can not address them.

If only there was any actual Bible verse that actually says the Lord will rapture His people to heaven.
The whole idea of the Christian Church being taken off the earth, is a fantastic fable and will never happen.

The chosen are gathered, then the nations are gathered. Israel, and the Gentiles.

The peoples who gather in the holy land soon after the Sixth Seal has cleared and cleansed all that area, will be as per Revelation 7:9 .....a great multitude, which no man can count, of all nations, kindred, peoples and tongues.
All the faithful Christians; The Lord will reveal Himself to them/us; 1 Thess 1:10, and Revelation 14:1 proves it will happen in Jerusalem.

 

[rebuilder 454]

NO I AM NOT. The pre trib rapture is where Jesus gathers His bride to heaven. To the Father's mansion IN HEAVEN. The end of the Trib is where Jesus gathers His elect Trib Saints to join Him IN JERUSALEM

Any verses say that?

 

[ChristinaL]

Any verses say that?

Look it up. Not that hard. And I am sure plenty of other people have shown you the same proofs so I wont waste my time if you arent going to listen anyway

 

[jeffweeder]

At the time Jesus gave this prophecy, who were "the chosen"? Jesus prophesied that the chosen would be gathered, and then the nations would be gathered.

The chosen would include the disciples and all who believed them. Add to that many OT folk. The queen of Sheba will be there.

Luke 11:31
The Queen of the South (the kingdom of Sheba) will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and look, something greater than Solomon is here.

 

[covenantee]

At the time Jesus gave this prophecy, who were "the chosen"? Jesus prophesied that the chosen would be gathered, and then the nations would be gathered.

So that's the big question, isn't it? When Jesus spoke this prophecy, to whom did He refer? Who are the Chosen? Who are the Nations? There really isn't any mystery here, they would have all known immediately to whom Jesus referred, the Jews, and the Gentiles.

Much love!

Yes, no mystery.

The NT Elect (i.e. the Chosen) is/are the Church, comprised of saved Jews and Gentiles.

Only Jews who are in the Church through faith in Christ are part of the NT Elect.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Look it up. Not that hard. And I am sure plenty of other people have shown you the same proofs so I wont waste my time if you arent going to listen anyway

Ok.
I figured there were none as you just demonstrated.

 

[ChristinaL]

Ok.
I figured there were none as you just demonstrated.

No there are plenty. You are just too scared and/or lazy to do your own homework. why should I do it for you? There are plenty of well-researched bible sites that show pre-trib rapture proofs so get off your lazy arse and do it yourself

 

[marks]

The chosen would include the disciples and all who believed them. Add to that many OT folk. The queen of Sheba will be there.

That's now the usage of the day, that's just a popular idea without foundation.

Chosen Nation = Israel
Gentiles = all the others

Much love!