No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GodsGrace]

In context here, Jesus is telling us to beware of false prophets. who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. (vs. 15)

Whatever that means.

Right. And those ravenous wolves teach incorrect doctrine...
That's why Jesus admonishes them.

That's why He goes on to tell the story of the wise man THAT LISTENS TO JESUS' words and not those of the false prophets.

And about reading books....
Yes. I think it could be dangerous and I've read many books.
Sometimes the author will say something that is HIS opinion and then continues to post verses that don't even mean what they do.

Same for commentaries. I tend to use them very rarely because it's always the opinion of a man.
You post some commentary you like, and I post some commentary I like.
Waste of time.

Go to the scriptures,,,read in context,,,,it always turns out the same.
We are saved by grace through faith.
Jesus keeps us safe as long as we are IN HIM.
As much as we can, we obey God and He'll forgive us when we don't, as promised by Him and John very specifically.

 

[GodsGrace]

I already thoroughly explained this in post #433. The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This is in harmony with (John 3:15,16,18,6:40,47; 11:25,26)

If John wanted to make obedience/works the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

BTW: Following salvation through believing, believers are characterized by obedience and unbelievers are characterized by disobedience.

To clarify:

If disbelieve means to disobey....
then
To believe means to obey....

And I don't wish to get lost on this one verse....
there are so many others.

I do understand what you're saying...

 

[mailmandan]

This is nonsense MD:
Trying to go to different versions to uphold your incorrect theory.
First of all the greek word BELEIVE has a connotation of OBEY in it.
The greek word UNBELIEF has the connotation of DISOBEDIENCE in it.

You and those that believe as you do desperately add words to what the NT clearly teaches.
And John doesn't need you nor me to put words into his mouth to teach HJM how to say something.
He lived with Jesus for over 3 yeas...I think he knew what he meant when he said that those that do not OBEY the Son will have the wrath of God on them.

Please read to the end.....

John 3:36
New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

New King James Version
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

New American Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

NASB 1995
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

NASB 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Legacy Standard Bible
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Amplified Bible
He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”

Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

American Standard Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”

Contemporary English Version
Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever.

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

English Revised Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger."

Good News Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not have life, but will remain under God's punishment.

International Standard Version
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Literal Standard Version
he who is believing in the Son has continuous life; and he who is not believing the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Majority Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

New American Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

NET Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God's wrath remains on him.

New Revised Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has everlasting life, but whoever refuses to believe in the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

Webster's Bible Translation
He that believeth on the Son, hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Weymouth New Testament
He who believes in the Son has the Life of the Ages; he who disobeys the Son will not enter into Life, but God's anger remains upon him.

World English Bible
One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”


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It's not nonsense and once again, the KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This is in harmony with (John 3:15,16,18,6:40,47; 11:25,26)

To clarify:

If disbelieve means to disobey....
then
To believe means to obey....

And I don't wish to get lost on this one verse....
there are so many others.

I do understand what you're saying...

There is a difference between obey by choosing to believe in the Son and obedience/works which "follows" believing in the Son unto salvation. Obedience is a manifestation of belief and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You seem determined to turn believing in the Son unto salvation into salvation by obedience/works which "follows" salvation. BTW those translations you cited back up my argument.

 

[mailmandan]

So what does the above state?:

verse 17 The Father will judge us according to our works. So....conduct ourselves with fear during our time on earth.

verse 18 We are not redeemed with perishable things....let's see what is imperishable....

verse 19 We have been bought back with the blood of Christ.

verse 21 Through HIM we are BELIEVERS in God.

verse 22 Through OBEDIENCE TO THE TRUTH we have PURIFIED OUR SOULS. Through obedience we have purfified....

verse 23 What is imperishable? The WORD OF GOD which endures forever....verse 24

Why are believers judged according to their works? See 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
You keep trying to turn obedience into salvation by works. That is not obedience to the truth. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

In 1 Peter 1:22 notice - "Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 - "Purified their hearts by FAITH." Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) That is the truth. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who has believed our report? "We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing the gospel and becoming saved.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness.. no mention of obedience/works which follow.

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[CadyandZoe]

First of all the greek word BELEIVE has a connotation of OBEY in it.

No, not at all. "Believe" means to affirm something true. That's all. It doesn't connote obedience.

The greek word UNBELIEF has the connotation of DISOBEDIENCE in it.

Unbelief occurs when someone acts as if something is true when they know that it's false, or they act as if something is false when they know it is true.

You and those that believe as you do desperately add words to what the NT clearly teaches.

Verses taken out of context aren't clear; they are ambiguous, which is why two honest readers of the same sentence can arrive at different interpretations.

And John doesn't need you nor me to put words into his mouth to teach HJM how to say something.

Agreed. But John expects his readers to interpret his words from within the larger context of the Gospel.

He lived with Jesus for over 3 yeas...I think he knew what he meant when he said that those that do not OBEY the Son will have the wrath of God on them.

Remember that John wrote in Greek, not English. We need to be careful readers to understand what he meant.

John 3:36 is not conditional; it's propositional. Contrary to your interpretation, Jesus doesn't mean to say, "If you want eternal life, then believe in the Son." Instead, Jesus has already established that unless a person is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, which is essential for believing and obeying the Son. In that context, then, Jesus means to say, "Those whom the Father has sanctified with new birth by the Spirit will believe, and these individuals will be given eternal life.

One can not properly understand John 3:36 apart from the rest of the chapter.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Why would it be "burying the lede" for me to point out that you already admitted that some who are in Christ sin sins unto death that separate them from Christ?

In Romans 8, Paul states that the one in Christ has been freed from the law of sin and death. If someone commits the sin unto death, then that person was never in Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not nonsense and once again, the KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son. This is in harmony with (John 3:15,16,18,6:40,47; 11:25,26)

There is a difference between obey by choosing to believe in the Son and obedience/works which "follows" believing in the Son unto salvation. Obedience is a manifestation of belief and disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. You seem determined to turn believing in the Son unto salvation into salvation by obedience/works which "follows" salvation. BTW those translations you cited back up my argument.

Some of them do.
I don't see anymore exactly what we're debating here.

We both believe God is to be obeyed.
So,,,
What if we don't obey Him?

Jesus said we should confess our sins.
John said we should confess our sins.

What sins exactly are we confessing?
We're confessing sins that demonstrate that we did not obey God.

If we have to confess those sins....it means we MUST OBEY God.
Otherwise, why are we confessing them?

I don't post ad infinitum. I do like to make my position very clear.

We're speaking here of believers....

Let's stay on John 3:36 for a moment....
I understand what you're saying about the unbelief part.

But why would John make such a statement if what he taught was that it's necessary to believe in Jesus for salvation?

John 3:18 he who believes not is ALREADY lost....

When we trust God we are faithful to Him and trust our very lives (eternal) to Him.
We agree with our mind that Jesus is God,
We willingly submit to His authority.

Our behavior must mirror our trust in Him.
So, faith and FAITHFULNESS are inseparable.
As the greek word UNBELIEF shows, the opposite of
faith is not just UNBELIEF, but DISOBEDIENCE.

 

[Oneoff]

Since there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), why is the sinning Christian "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?

My way of reconciling these is simply recognizing that not all remain in Christ: remaining requires obeying God's commands (i. believe, and ii. walk in love (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24)), but the believer in Ro 14:23 is sinning, so he's not remaining "in Christ", where there is "no condemnation".

Past failed attempts at reconciling the two have included:
1. Romans 14:23 doesn't refer to a sinning believer
2. Believers don't sin at all
3. Thinking Ro 8:1 needs reconciliation with Ro 14:23 proves you're not born of God.

What is your way of reconciling Ro 8:1 with Ro 14:23?

I don't 'reconcile'.
I blatantly cherry pick what I trust God's Holy Spirit to implant in my heart.
And He sure doesn't implant the dreaded belief that the vast majority of universal mankind past present and future (including those who never see a Bible or hear what we call "The Gospel message" by reason of premature death, geographic isolation, or mental deficiency,) will spend eternity in Hellfire as a result of things beyond their control.
Predestination to Hellfire ? Does God's Holy Spirit implant that in you heart?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Show me some verses that state what you believe.
Otherwise, it's just your opinion.

My statement addresses the reason behind someone's obedience and whether a person is actively pursuing and applying wisdom or simply following rules without understanding. There are several scripture passages that discuss this. I can share one passage that exemplifies this idea.

Matthew 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

Here, Jesus criticizes the Pharisees because they tithed mint, dill, and cummin while neglecting the weightier things of the law. Tithing is a measurable behavior. All one needs to do is ask whether or not one has paid ten percent of their income, which is a simple accounting function.

Keeping the rules doesn't challenge a person's character or his attitude toward God and other people. Justice, mercy, and faithfulness, is hard to measure and keep an acounting. And righteousness demands that a person's justice and mercy come from the inner man. Mercy must be genuine.

Here is another passage that illustrates the point again in a different way.

Luke 18:11-13 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’

How did the Pharisee compare himself to the tax collector? He denied being a swindler, but he based his righteousness on his obedience to religious rules. Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they equated religious devotion with moral righteousness. The Pharisee thought that God was pleased with his obedience to religious rules and believed that he was superior to others based on keeping the rules. But he did not go home justified.

BTW, Jesus wanted us to be united as He and the Father are united. John 17:21
Paul tells us that we are to be of one mind. Philippians 2:2-4

So why do you think there's this great divide that shouldn't even exist?

It's a matter of courage. It's scary to live according to wisdom; But if I measure myself against a set of rules, I can always know how I stand regarding God's approval, or so I think. I can be lured into a false sense of security through rule-keeping. taking comfort and security from measured success.

Did I tithe my mint? If Yes, I am good. If no, then I need to improve. But going through the motions isn't righteousness.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't 'reconcile'.
I blatantly cherry pick what I trust God's Holy Spirit to implant in my heart.
And He sure doesn't implant the dreaded belief that the vast majority of universal mankind past present and future (including those who never see a Bible or hear what we call "The Gospel message" by reason of premature death, geographic isolation, or mental deficiency,) will spend eternity in Hellfire as a result of things beyond their control.
Predestination to Hellfire ? Does God's Holy Spirit implant that in you heart?

Not too sure what you mean by your first 2 sentences.
But how does the rest fit into what we're discussing?

Seems to be an entirely different topic....

 

[Oneoff]

Not too sure what you mean by your first 2 sentences.
But how does the rest fit into what we're discussing?

Seems to be an entirely different topic....

Sorry but it's taking me a while to settle in, find my feet, and ensure that I post relevant stuff in relevant threads.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, there is a problem : according to John 15:5-10 and 1 Jn 3:23,24, we abide in Him by keeping His commands (i. believe in the Name of God's Son,

I see it differently. Consider the opening lines of John 15.

John 15:1-3 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.​

For many years, my eyes would quickly move beyond the sentence I highlighted, which was unfortunate because it is the key sentence in this passage. To "clean" a vine is to prune it to bear more fruit. Jesus says that the eleven were already "clean" because of the word which he spoke to them. He refers to the promise of the Holy Spirit and his teaching. God the Father has already "pruned" the eleven by giving them his Holy Spirit and the ability to continue Jesus' mission with a firm grasp of the Gospel message. He tells them that the Spirit of truth will be "in them." (John 14:17) He also tells them that they will know that "I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20)

For this reason, we make mistakes when we understand phrases like "he who keeps my commandments" as open-ended conditional statements. Instead, the conditional statements assume a positive result as if Jesus said, "if you keep my commandments . . . (and I know you will because the Father has already cleaned you) . . . " is the one who loves me." Since the Father is performing the pruning and the Eleven have already been pruned, then none of the eleven will fall away, cease keeping his commandments, stop loving Jesus and etc.

1. If it is not the case that instances of sinning are not instances of not remaining in Christ--because remaining is by obeying--then what is the explanation for how there is no condemnation for those in Christ, yet the "true believer", who is to comport himself by the rule "each is to be fully convinced in his own mind", but who breaks that rule (by doing something he was wavering about, he did something that did not come from faith), is condemned?

The condemnation in Romans 14:23 is different from the condemnation in Romans 8:1. In Romans 8:1, Paul declares that those in Christ are free from eternal damnation. In Romans 14:23, Paul means to say that God disapproves of the one who doubts when he eats the meat. He is not suggesting that the one who acts against his conscience will be subject to eternal damnation.

2. There is a contingency : IF we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light. Not all walk in the Light. That's precisely the issue : "remain in Him". How? By obeying His commands to i. believe in His Name and ii. love one another.

I see it differently. The conditional statements found in 1 John 1, assume a positive answer. "If we walk in the light . . . and I know you do . . ."

3. The ones who do not remain in Him . . .

The key to John 15 is Jesus' word concerning those whom Jesus has chosen. If Jesus has chosen a person, the Father cleans that person so he can bear fruit and he will remain in the vine. (John 15:16)

4. Yes, people do sin, fail to love one another, fail to walk in faith, and, yes, that does result in their "condemnation" (Ro 14:23), not their "justification" (Ro 2:10, 13; James 2:24), but if they resort to obeying the first part of the command, believing in the Name of God's Son, confessing their sin and being forgiven, then, yes, they can preserve/restore the fellowship that was being endangered by the sin.

The condemnation mentioned in Romans 8 is eternal destruction; the condemnation mentioned in Romans 14 is not.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"The Gospel message" by reason of premature death, geographic isolation, or mental deficiency,) will spend eternity in Hellfire as a result of things beyond their control.
Predestination to Hellfire ? Does God's Holy Spirit implant that in you heart?

this is found no where in scripture

 

[mailmandan]

Some of them do.
I don't see anymore exactly what we're debating here.

We both believe God is to be obeyed.
So,,,
What if we don't obey Him?

Jesus said we should confess our sins.
John said we should confess our sins.

What sins exactly are we confessing?
We're confessing sins that demonstrate that we did not obey God.

If we have to confess those sins....it means we MUST OBEY God.
Otherwise, why are we confessing them?

I don't post ad infinitum. I do like to make my position very clear.

We're speaking here of believers....

Let's stay on John 3:36 for a moment....
I understand what you're saying about the unbelief part.

But why would John make such a statement if what he taught was that it's necessary to believe in Jesus for salvation?

John 3:18 he who believes not is ALREADY lost....

When we trust God we are faithful to Him and trust our very lives (eternal) to Him.
We agree with our mind that Jesus is God,
We willingly submit to His authority.

Our behavior must mirror our trust in Him.
So, faith and FAITHFULNESS are inseparable.
As the greek word UNBELIEF shows, the opposite of
faith is not just UNBELIEF, but DISOBEDIENCE.

Allow me to cover all the bases with the word obey. Only believers have obeyed Christ by choosing to believe in Him (John 3:36) believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; Galatians 1:11-12) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So, in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[GracePeace]

No, it's the other way around. We keep his commandments because we abide in him, and we abide in him because we are sanctified by the Spirit of God.

No, that's not the picture or the language in john 15. Abiding is CONTINGENT on keeping His Word and commands, and branches that don't abide get thrown in the fire.

 

[GracePeace]

Catholics, orthodox and even Calvinists have scripture,,,,unfortunately they've added to it, and I don't mean works.

There's no such group as Arminiun.
Arminius was a Calvinist.

What you call Arminiun is just mainline Protestantism.

Do you agree?

I really dislike being referred to as an Arminiun by Calvinists. Because THEY are not in line with mainline Christianity is no excuse to make up a whole new category....

We already have all we need.

I don't want to go down this rabbit trail

 

[GracePeace]

Let's go through some definitions:
I believe in Eternal Security because that is what the NT teaches.

Perseverance of the Saints
Calvists /Reformed believe this to be true.
God CHOOSES those that will be saved...so since it's GOD THAT CHOOSES, they teach that a person MUST ACCEPT God's Grace and so he can never lose his salvation.

Of course, this is not true, all they'd have to do is read John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion and they'd come upon some pretty horrifying ideas.


Eternal Security
We can be secure in Christ as long as we are abiding in Him and obeying Him and living a life as He taught us to.
AS LONG AS WE ARE ABIDING IN HIM.

It's possible, as the NT teaches, to abandon God and fall back into our pre-saved state - that is - we become lost again since we do not have Christ, since we are not abiding in Christ.


Once Saved Always Saved
This is a very radical teaching and one to which some Christians hold.
They believe that NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, they will remain saved because it is JESUS that will save them.
IOW, they believe Jesus does everything and they are not obligated to do anything and, even beyond that, they can live of life of sin and still be saved because at some time in their past they "accepted Jesus" as their Savior.

I don't want to address this because everyone has an opinion, which will invite lots of discussion, and I'm trying to have a different discussion.

 

[GracePeace]

In Romans 8, Paul states that the one in Christ has been freed from the law of sin and death. If someone commits the sin unto death, then that person was never in Christ.

No, salvation was typed by the Jews' deliverance from Egypt (1 Co 10)--Jesus is "our Passover Lamb".

Egypt was called "the house of bondage", where they were slaves to sin.

Being a slave to sin is a condition where there was no choice but to sin (eg, Ro 7), but that doesn't mean people cannot OPT to sin after beng set free. That's what 1 Co 10 is all about.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't 'reconcile'.
I blatantly cherry pick what I trust God's Holy Spirit to implant in my heart.
And He sure doesn't implant the dreaded belief that the vast majority of universal mankind past present and future (including those who never see a Bible or hear what we call "The Gospel message" by reason of premature death, geographic isolation, or mental deficiency,) will spend eternity in Hellfire as a result of things beyond their control.
Predestination to Hellfire ? Does God's Holy Spirit implant that in you heart?

You are off topic.

 

[Grailhunter]

The misunderstandings regarding works

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works

This is not what the scriptures say but it is what a lot of people remember and it is how they apply Christianity to their lives and to the Commandment that we should love one another, as well as the responsibilities of Christians ….Which is why some are resistant to my motto to Be good and do good.

The scripture actually says…
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Romans 3:18

This scripture is actually referring to the observance of the Mosaic Law. And this leads to a curse for Christians that try…..but that is another topic. But again, This scripture is actually referring to the observance of the Mosaic Law not Good Deeds.

I have a long essay on this but the bottom line is …. We are not saved by Good Deeds but we can go to Hell for not doing them. The Sheep and the Goats… the Goats went to Hell. Saved is a moment in time, from there we workout our Salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12) to appear in the before Christ to receive judgment….for what we have done….Eternal reward for the good we have done or to Hell for the bad we have done.

2nd Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”