Filthy Rags versus Fine Linen Bright and Clean

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GracePeace

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If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.

As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).

In the same letter we read:

He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9

He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6

He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1


John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.

The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.

We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:

1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.

The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.

In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-

1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)

2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven

3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.

Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-

1)We are deceived and remain in our sin

2)There is no truth in us

3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.

So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.

Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis.
Something that is a bit troubling, in the sense that it indicates a requirement of even more carefulness in interpreting 1 John, is that John seems to be writing some of those things specifically against Gnosticism, so when you try to apply them in any and every context, the statements don't work.

Gnosticism said the material world, not created by the true God, but some evil god, was evil, and two consequences of this belief were that :
1) Christ could not have incarnated--John says, "Any spirit that confesses Christ came in the flesh is from God."
2) Gnostic Christians could never be holy, but would continue in gross sin as long as they had bodies--John says, "The one who is born of God does not continue sinning".

So, here we have a problem : the Judaizers never denied Christ was incarnated. They held to the typical Gospel, which included Christ being crucified, but they added that Christians were to serve by the Law of Moses, yet Paul identified their doctrine as having been originated with, taught them by, demons (1 Ti 4:1), as he said "this persuasion does not come from [God]".

Was John trying to say their spirit was from God? No. Obviously not.
Therefore, we have to be careful in application of these things he is saying, it seems--John was directing that toward the Gnostic heresy, but it doesn't apply across the board.

When therefore John makes these statements about those who are born of God not sinning, it may be said that he meant to direct those things toward the Gnostics--that, yes, obviously, the church has always believed in sanctification, and Peter speaks about ceasing sinning, but to take that to sinless perfectionism would be error, because even John the Apostle admitted he sinned small errors (in Revelation).
 

Eternally Grateful

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When people try to make John fight against gnostics in order to not read the literal words of John it is troubling. I never even heard of such a thing until I got involved in Christian chat rooms and heard people who could not interpret John as written because it would hurt their belief system

John is clear to Gnostics to Jews to Gentiles to true believers or make believers

1. He wrote things so we would know we have eternal life.
2 there are peiple Who Claimed they do not have sin. John said those people are decieved
3 there are people (Jews) who claimed they never sinned (Jesus spoke to them a lot and John witnessed the conversation between Jesus and these Jews who thought they had no sin. John made it clear these people made Jesus to be a liar.
4 John also in trying to help said that if we see people who live in sin. Well these people had never seen or known God
5 on the other hand those born of God can not
Live in sin why? Because they have been born of God and his seed is
In them

People should just try to read the word and not try to look for doctrines (OSAS,NOSAS, Gnosticism,Calvinism, Arminianism,Catholicism eta etc I firmly believe satan gets people
To do this to keep people from seeing Gods word for what it is and keep us fighting
 

Hepzibah

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When people try to make John fight against gnostics in order to not read the literal words of John it is troubling. I never even heard of such a thing until I got involved in Christian chat rooms and heard people who could not interpret John as written because it would hurt their belief system

John is clear to Gnostics to Jews to Gentiles to true believers or make believers

1. He wrote things so we would know we have eternal life.
2 there are peiple Who Claimed they do not have sin. John said those people are decieved
3 there are people (Jews) who claimed they never sinned (Jesus spoke to them a lot and John witnessed the conversation between Jesus and these Jews who thought they had no sin. John made it clear these people made Jesus to be a liar.
4 John also in trying to help said that if we see people who live in sin. Well these people had never seen or known God
5 on the other hand those born of God can not
Live in sin why? Because they have been born of God and his seed is
In them

People should just try to read the word and not try to look for doctrines (OSAS,NOSAS, Gnosticism,Calvinism, Arminianism,Catholicism eta etc I firmly believe satan gets people
To do this to keep people from seeing Gods word for what it is and keep us fighting
EG, all biblical scholars say that John was refuting the Gnosticism invading the church but you want to cherry pick to do the very thing you accuse me of.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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EG, all biblical scholars say that John was refuting the Gnosticism invading the church but you want to cherry pick to do the very thing you accuse me of.
lol. Sorry bro that is not true. And even if it was it would not matter

James was written to the jews, as was peter. But they are applicable to us today. It does not change what John said, and we do not twist the words of John so we can make our believe system come true

if yu claim you are sinless. You are decieved, and there is no truth in you. And you can not help me in anyway, you need to repent.
 

Hepzibah

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"8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter."

@GracePeace I don't understand where you are coming from.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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For "faith aloners" who want to argue against Paul's teaching that only doers of the law will be justified when we are judged (Ro 2:6-16) (James 2 teaches it, too), a frequent resort is to the complaint, "That's a false Gospel of filthy Rags of self righteousness--being saved by a righteousness of your own!" : "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:17), so when we walk in faith, "fully convinced in our own minds" (Ro 14:5), giving thanks (Ro 14:6), not wavering (Ro 14:23), that is God's righteousness, thus, categorically, not a righteousness of my own, thus "fine linen bright and clean", not "filthy rags", grace, not works, thus the complaint is just another in a long line of baseless empty objections.

This also handily explains why there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), but why the sinning Christian (the one who doesn't walk in God's righteousness by faith) is "condemned" (Ro 14:23) : remaining "in Christ" requires obeying God's commands (i. believe, and ii. walk in love (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24)), but the believer in Ro 14:23 is sinning, so he's not remaining "in Christ", in Whom "there is no condemnation".

Note : I'm not presenting these arguments as someone who "has it all together", but as someone who has looked for a coherent message from Scripture, because I understand that only when I understand what is being asked can I fulfill my end of the bargain--because when the pressure is on, collapse is inevitable without a rock solid foundation.
"Faith aloners", as you say, try to eliminate any and all works from salvation therefore they refuse to see there is a difference between works, that is, all works according to the Bible are not alike. They refuse to acknowledge that works of merit and obedience to God are two different types of works whereby one work does not save (works of merit; Eph 2:9) and one work does save/justify (obedience to God; Rom 6:16; Rom 10:3).
Obedience to God is not "filthy rags" and this can easily be proven. In the NT where you see the word "obey" simply substitute it with "filthy rags" and look at the absurdity of it. For example, Heb 5:9 says Christ is the Author of salvation unto all them that OBEY him would now read Christ is the Author of salvation unto all them that have filthy rags. It's ridiculous. Or Heb 5:8 Christ learned obedience by the things which He suffered now reads Christ learned filthy rags by the things which He suffered.
 
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GracePeace

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"Faith aloners", as you say, try to eliminate any and all works from salvation therefore they refuse to see there is a difference between works, that is, all works according to the Bible are not alike. They refuse to acknowledge that works of merit and obedience to God are two different types of works whereby one work does not save (works of merit; Eph 2:9) and one work does save/justify (obedience to God; Rom 6:16; Rom 10:3).
Obedience to God is not "filthy rags" and this can easily be proven. In the NT where you see the word "obey" simply substitute it with "filthy rags" and look at the absurdity of it. For example, Heb 5:9 says Christ is the Author of salvation unto all them that OBEY him would now read Christ is the Author of salvation unto all them that have filthy rags. It's ridiculous. Or Heb 5:8 Christ learned obedience by the things which He suffered now reads Christ learned filthy rags by the things which He suffered.
I am more convinced of the arguments presented in the OP.
 

CC7799

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James chapter 1

Be doers of the word, not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Hearers of the word, are playing church. Its lip service. There not interested in learning God's Truth. Its more of social gatherings.

Isaiah chapter 30

Some people even tell there shepherds to sugar coat Gods word. They enjoy hearing fairy tales and false doctrine.

James chapter 2

Faith and works go together.

Many Christians have Dead Works.

Luke chapter 16


Two sides of the Gulf.
Righteous in paradise
Wicked and spiritually dead in sheol. It's holding place untill judgment Day.

They didn't repent
Committed idol worship. Complicit in traditions of men and false doctrine.

They have Dead works.

Christian people are to study Bible and share Gods Truth with lost sheep.

To produce fruit. Good works.

No fruit. Unprofitable. Dead Works.

Get the picture.
 

GracePeace

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James chapter 1

Be doers of the word, not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Hearers of the word, are playing church. Its lip service. There not interested in learning God's Truth. Its more of social gatherings.

Isaiah chapter 30

Some people even tell there shepherds to sugar coat Gods word. They enjoy hearing fairy tales and false doctrine.

James chapter 2

Faith and works go together.

Many Christians have Dead Works.

Luke chapter 16


Two sides of the Gulf.
Righteous in paradise
Wicked and spiritually dead in sheol. It's holding place untill judgment Day.

They didn't repent
Committed idol worship. Complicit in traditions of men and false doctrine.

They have Dead works.

Christian people are to study Bible and share Gods Truth with lost sheep.

To produce fruit. Good works.

No fruit. Unprofitable. Dead Works.

Get the picture.
The point was it is an error to call Christian works "filthy rags" when they're actually "fine linen bright and clean" because they're not our own righteousness but God's revealed from faith to faith.
 

CC7799

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The point was it is an error to call Christian works "filthy rags" when they're actually "fine linen bright and clean" because they're not our own righteousness but God's revealed from faith to faith.
Those who have dead works won't have fine linen. They will be naked as jay bird.

Documentation
Revelation chapter 19
Chapter 14

Dead Works, no linen.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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I am more convinced of the arguments presented in the OP.
The OP stated:
"...there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), but why the sinning Christian (the one who doesn't walk in God's righteousness by faith) is "condemned" (Ro 14:23) : remaining "in Christ" requires obeying God's commands.."

..and I stated as much. My point is that obedience to God is not 'filhty rags" as faith aloners would think. Even the context states that God helps/meets/entreats those who "work righteousness" Isa 64:5 In Acts 10:34-35 it is those who "worketh righteosuness" being the ones accepted with God, their righteousness not treated as filthy rags
 

GracePeace

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The OP stated:
"...there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), but why the sinning Christian (the one who doesn't walk in God's righteousness by faith) is "condemned" (Ro 14:23) : remaining "in Christ" requires obeying God's commands.."

..and I stated as much. My point is that obedience to God is not 'filhty rags" as faith aloners would think. Even the context states that God helps/meets/entreats those who "work righteousness" Isa 64:5 In Acts 10:34-35 it is those who "worketh righteosuness" being the ones accepted with God, their righteousness not treated as filthy rags
My concerns were shared in the OP, and thanks for sharing your own as well.
 

Taken

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The OP stated:
"...there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), but why the sinning Christian (the one who doesn't walk in God's righteousness by faith) is "condemned" (Ro 14:23) : remaining "in Christ" requires obeying God's commands.."


A man Remaining IN FAITH…(by his own POWER)….is risky, because he CAN fall from faith.

A man Remaining IN FAITH…(by Gods POWER “IN” the man)…is assured, he can NEVER fall from faith.

Greater is he that is “IN” you than he that is in the world…

(IN the world, is powerful oppressive kings, powerful employers, powerful cunning devil spirits…)

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Filthy Rags versus Fine Linen Bright and Clean

Filthy Rags is the corrupt/ flesh/skin covering of a natural mans body.

Covering the flesh hides the eyes from seeing….bulk exposure of the corrupt flesh and also hides the alluring, enticing sight of the breasts and genitals.

Newly converted bodies from corrupt to incorrupt are clothed in a particular fabric, void of pigments of color…being VOID of attempting to draw with Colors and Patterns.

The fabric, meticulously harvested from the annual growing FLAX plant, has expressly particular properties, that are strong, long lasting, cool, heat, as temperatures dictates to be of most comfort to the flesh, and the fabric against the flesh is silky fine and pleasingly comfortable.
The lack of pigment, being White, without irritant dyes, colors, patterns, is uniform, to be worn by a whole group who are in agreement with the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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