JESUS, the Holy Spirit, the Only True God.

[101G]

Now knowing that the Diversity of the Spirit in flesh is the "ANOTHER" of God as G243 allos states. next we move onto hard question #2

#2. "The Subjection of Christ in God".
1 Corinthians 15:27 & 28 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all".

this should be a humdinger, because it will certify "diversified Oneness" as correct and true. for many Christian has alway asked me, "if Christ is the "another" of God, and Equal to God, how can he be "subject" to his "Another..... good question, it will be answered next time.......

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

Now knowing that the Diversity of the Spirit in flesh is the "ANOTHER" of God as G243 allos states. next we move onto hard question #2

#2. "The Subjection of Christ in God".
1 Corinthians 15:27 & 28 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all".

this should be a humdinger, because it will certify "diversified Oneness" as correct and true. for many Christian has alway asked me, "if Christ is the "another" of God, and Equal to God, how can he be "subject" to his "Another..... good quest, it will be answered next time.......

PICJAG.

You do not understand Christ according to scripture.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

Knowing from our Lord’s two fold return, he’s in a Spiritual state, as well as in a diversified “concrete” state, meaning he has a GLORIFIED body now empowered with his Spirit which he poured out on the day of Pentecost. Which bring us to today’s answer how did he get into this glorified state, and how this Glorified state is affected in the end of all thing in this created world. Meaning, according to 1 Corinthians 15:27 & 28 when all things are put under his feet and how he, the “Son”, will “be Subject” to him that put all thing under his feet.

Right now as we speak, the Holy Spirit, is making his enemies his footstool. How? by speaking, and teaching true doctrine. And when the end comes, this is where we pick up our today’s hard Question at, "The subjection of Christ".

Here it is, “if the Lord Jesus is God, (and he is) and Equal with God as Phil. 2:6 points out . “how is he going to be subject to him if he’s equal with him?”. that’s a legitimate question. Let’s see, shall we.

The very first thing we must do is A. “understand the words in these two scriptures". B. "get an OLD English dictionary and see what these words really mean in the time the bible was printed".

SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, is used as a verb, and not a noun. STOP, (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. a. put within, b. will. lets look at both and understand this revelation correctly. according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within” the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding. G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means
1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

please notice, the KJV can translate subject, as “be under obedience”, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo (hoop-oh') states,
1.under
2.(with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3.(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with

examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used as a verb. “BE” subject, is our conformation, because “BE” is a verb, when subject is used with a VERB, it modifies the meaning of “Subject”. the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 ὑπό hupo (hoop-oh')/SUBJECT is use with a VERB, as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm (his OWN ARM is JESUS the Son), brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is within God “own” arm, which is the Lord JESUS, “God’s own arm". Jesus is the POWER of God, see (1 Cor. 1:24).

that’s all that is needed, the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator, the Wisdom of God) and an old English dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary, to understand correctly the word of God. the Holy Spirit will enable us, (TEACH) us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning to understand the old English language used at that time when the bible was written, in order to know how to handle the word of TRUTH.

now let get the clear understanding, put it all together. verse 28 "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself “be” subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all". but do we have a problem here?, in which way?. did not our Lord Jesus said upon his resurrection that “all” power have been given unto him. and that the Father had reserved unto himself some power.? scripture, Acts 1:7 "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power”. Power here is G1849 ἐξουσία exousia, or authority. when did this happen?. in the book of Revelation chapter 5, after his Carnation on the throne. he, the Father, took the book out of our Lord’s (the Son's) right hand. this is symbolic of the Godly principle of, not letting your left hand know what the right hand is doing, (see Matthew 6:3), God will. now, what was in the Lord’s right hand, which is in now in the Father hands?. the end time revelation. for, Psalms 110:1 states, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool”. the Lord, by the Godly principle, (not knowing his return date), is waiting until his enemies are made his footstool. so by the Father, having the book, and the right hand mean power, hence the scripture of Acts 1:7, the Father hath put in his own power, his own right hand the knowledge of our Lord’s return date. but the question begs to be asked, how is our Lord’s enemies being made his footstool?. answer, through knowledge and understanding of the truth. this truth, or gospel is to be witness into all the world, then come the end. supportive scripture, Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come”. ok, who is preaching this Gospel? Scripture, 1 Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into”. (STOP, when was the Holy Ghot sent down from heaven?), who have the book now? ON the "DAY" of Pentecost. Yes, the Holy Ghost, he shall teach us all things.. (smile). now for all those Revelation readers who want to understand the book of revelation, as to when the Holy Ghot came down with the book? Revelation 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire”. (THAT'S THE LORD JESUS AS THE HOLY SPIRIT). Revelation 10:2 "And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth”. The little book is the book of GOOD NEWS, (your bibles in your hand, the Godd news) which contain the future, the prophecy that is sealed. not a great book, including the old testament and the new, but of the revelation of both, hence the book of Prophesy, the Spirit of Christ. On the sea and the earth/Land, the “GOSPEL” of CHRIST is to go everywhere, by land and by sea unto all the earth”.

notice our Lord said in Matthew 24:14 above, “this gospel, not another, but the truth, “THIS”, gospel, and not “ANOTHER”, Gospel which is a G2087, heteros gospel. as the apostle Paul also said echoing our Lord and saviour in Galatians 1:6 " I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ”. and we be putting up with this other gospel for a long time. and the trinity have we put up with a long time.

Conclusion: the verb “BE” before Subject, modified it’s meaning. Here we see it clearly in the book of Revelation. Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne”. (THIS IS THE GOSPEL TO PREACH "WITHIN" THE KINGDOM.

With, and In… within. I in you and You in me. My God how simple this is. That one little word “be” is the key to God being within himself, How?, because he is “ASSIMILATED" (within) himself in bodily Form. the definition of "ASSIMILATION" is to take in, or to incorporate as one's own. Hence the scripture, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”.

How beautiful are the scriptures when one a. hear the TRUE Gospel, b. UNDERSTAND it, and c. Obey it.

Diversity, is the answer.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

GINOLJC, to all.

PICJAG.

Now's your chance. Prove the entire Church has been wrong and you right about God since its inception.

Quotes from early Christian writers affirming distinct Persons of the one God who coexisted eternally before the Roman Catholic Church:

140 AD Aristides “[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16).

150 AD Justin Martyr “God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let us make man after our image and likeness’ . . . I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with someone numerically distinct from himself and also a rational being. . . . But this Offspring who was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with him” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 62).

150 AD Polycarp of Smyrna “I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen” (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14).

180 AD Irenaeus “But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father to Angels, Archangels, Powers, Virtues…” (Against Heresies, Book II, ch. 30, section 9)

180 AD Irenaeus “It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor anyone else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things. For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, “Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; ” [Gen. 1:26]” (Against Heresies 4:20:1).

190 AD Clement Of Alexandria “I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father.” (Stromata, Book V, ch. 14)

190 AD Clement Of Alexandria “When [John] says: ‘What was from the beginning [1 John 1:1],’ he touches upon the generation without beginning of the Son, who is co-equal with the Father. ‘Was,’ therefore, is indicative of an eternity without a beginning, just as the Word Himself, that is the Son, being one with the Father in regard to equality of substance, is eternal and uncreated. That the word always existed is signified by the saying: ‘In the beginning was the Word’ [John 1:1].” (fragment in Eusebius History, Bk 6 Ch 14; Jurgens, p. 188)

200 AD Tertullian “All the Scriptures give clear proof of the Trinity, and it is from these that our principle is deduced…the distinction of the Trinity is quite clearly displayed.” (Against Praxeas, ch 11)

200 AD Tertullian “Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are One’ [John 10:30], in respect of unity of Being not singularity of number” (Against Praxeas, 25)

225 AD Origen “Nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification.” (De Principis, Book I, ch. 3, section 7)

Source: Encyclopedia of Cults and New Religions

BY J. WILLIAMSIN Oneness Pentecostalism and Their False Doctrine of Modalism.

 

[101G]

Now's your chance. Prove the entire Church has been wrong and you right about God since its inception.

only a few ignorant men, who has corrupted the whole church that you're apart of...

just like forbidden women to be bishops. see dave the difference between you and I is I believe in what the word of God say instead of a few ignorant men say. I have the original letter of the TRUE church fathers .... the BIBLE. I take the Word of God over men.

and you see, this Gospel is now being preached to the world, then the end...

you only talk, but you nor your doctrine cannot answer these hard questions, Diversified Oneness do. as the Lord Jesus said, you can tell his disciple by their fruit...

I see no fruit from you, just vain talk of your church father. if you want to have some fruit, answer the next question.


PICJAG

 

[Dave L]

only a few ignorant men, who has corrupted the whole church that you're apart of...

just like forbidden women to be bishops. see dave the difference between you and I is I believe in what the word of God say instead of a few ignorant men say. I have the original letter of the TRUE church fathers .... the BIBLE. I take the Word of God over men.

and you see, this Gospel is now being preached to the world, then the end...

you only talk, but you nor your doctrine cannot answer these hard questions, Diversified Oneness do. as the Lord Jesus said, you can tell his disciple by their fruit...

I see no fruit from you, just vain talk of your church father. if you want to have some fruit, answer the next question.


PICJAG

You cannot refute the historic christian church in the doctrines of the trinity and the person of Christ. Both prove you teach pantheism and Jesus created in the womb by the Holy Spirit and therefore not God. For those who never studied the bible in this regard, it teaches God took on human flesh and a human soul through the virgin Mary, but not a human (spirit) person. His person is the eternal triune God. And that Jesus the man spoke through the second person of the trinity, the eternal Son of God.

 

[101G]

You cannot refute the historic christian church in the doctrines of the trinity and the person of Christ

did already, see dave that's all you can do, just talk, well defend your doctrine with answering the next question.

but you don't have a clue who chose Paul as his minister on the road to Damascus. you talk about what your church father, as to what they wrote, but they must had not wrote anything about answering any question, lol.

now if you can't answer the next question, bye..........

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

did already, see dave that's all you can do, just talk, well defend your doctrine with answering the next question.

but you don't have a clue who chose Paul as his minister on the road to Damascus. you talk about what your church father, as to what they wrote, but they must had not wrote anything about answering any question, lol.

now if you can't answer the next question, bye..........

PICJAG.

So you alone, (nobody else of any weight holds your "diversified oneness" doctrine), are right about God. And all of Christendom is wrong from the first century on?

 

[farouk]

You cannot refute the historic christian church in the doctrines of the trinity and the person of Christ.

Thse are indeed historically verifiable, but ultimately Biblical.

 

[101G]

Thse are indeed historically verifiable, but ultimately Biblical.

if they are so ultimately Biblical, and verifiable, then they should say the the person in John 1:3 is the same Person as in Isaiah 44:24 and Isaiah 44:22 then. can you verify that by the bible?.

or who chose Paul, then Saul, on the road to Damascus. was it the Son or the Father who chose him.

if these Church father are so reliable then these questions should be easy to answer.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

So you alone, (nobody else of any weight holds your "diversified oneness" doctrine), are right about God. And all of Christendom is wrong from the first century on?

on the Godhead as three person in it, YES, ... a resounding YES.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

on the Godhead as three person in it, YES, ... a resounding YES.

PICJAG.

But you show evidence of having the spirit of Antichrist by denying both the Father and the Son. You do this by denying each (both) are distinct persons. And redefine scripture making BOTH nothing more than one person wearing two hats...so to speak.

Here's a couple warning labels you should wear like a pack of cigarettes.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11) (KJV 1900)

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22) (KJV 1900)

 

[101G]

But you show evidence of having the spirit of Antichrist by denying both the Father and the Son. You do this by denying each (both) are distinct persons. And redefine scripture making BOTH nothing more than one person wearing two hats...so to speak.

Here's a couple warning labels you should wear like a pack of cigarettes.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11) (KJV 1900)

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22) (KJV 1900)

GINOLJC, to all.

First, thanks for the reply, second, so we can take this again as you have no clue who chose Paul on the road to Damascus?. .... ...lol. Oh well, no suprises there, but,

instead of vain jangling, or other words not being sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. we who know and believe "diversified Oneness" put our doctrine where our mouth is, instead of men whom you call your church father, who has lied. yes, men do lie, especially those in the Churches, (see Romans 3:4).

"Who Chose Paul as his Minister".
was it the one whom many calls the "Father", or was it the one whom many calls the "Son".

Let's hear what the REAL Church father's say about this. in Acts chapter 9 Paul, then Saul, on his way to Damascus meets the Lord Jesus, and is instructed to contuine on into the city where he will be told what to do. the disciple Ananias and the Lord Jesus have a conversation. Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel"

here, clear as DAY, God, the Lord Jesus, says, "for he is a chosen vessel unto me". some have said, it was the Father who chose Paul for his Son Jesus. ok, let's see if this is true.

Paul when much later returned to Jersalem, he told the Jews this account, and we pick up the account in chapter 22 of acts. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Acts 22:15 "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard".

The God of our fathers hath chosen thee?, notice the verse said "THE" God of our fathers.
ok, but was it the one whom many calls the "Father" or the one called the "Son"?. that thou shouldest know his will, (His Will?) and see that Just One, (and see the Just one... Jesus), and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. (and it was Jesus speaking to Paul). many right here say this was the Father's will for Paul to see and hear his "Son", what you say?

here is an open challenge to any trinitarian. Ananias said, "the God of our fathers" had chosen Paul, and the prophet Malachi said, 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?". now the One who CREATED us is the ONE who MADE us. scripture,

Exhibit A. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein".
(so it was the LORD, all caps who "CREATED" all things).

Exhibit B. Isaiah 37:16 "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth". (and it's again the LORD, all caps who "MADE" all things).

To be perfectly
Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else".

Uh O ........ here in Isaiah 45:18 the LORD, all caps said he, meaning ONE PERSON. he Created and MADE the "heaven" and the "Earth", the LORD all caps by himself. ONE PERSON.

now John 1:3 said "him", meaning the "Son", as your trinity doctrine states, a separate and distict person, made all things. well your church fathers just lied when they said the Father is not the Son, yes your church Fathers, L...I...E...D to you. yes, the scriptures are clear, Romans 3:4a "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged".

say what? "That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings", and WHAT ELSE? "and mightest overcome when thou art judged". .....

now for the TRUE answer as to who chose Paul as his minister, ...... the true answer the FATHER, who is the Lord JESUS, whom you ignorantly calls the second person in your trinity.

we have the the scripures to prove it, as we did above, but right in the book of acts itself it tells us plainly and clearly who chose Paul in black and white. yes, we have the TRUE Letters of the church fathers....

is this getting weighter enough for you... yes, a weight of "ONE", the Lord God, Jesus the Almaghty.

one cannot stand aganist the TRUTH, but only witness to it, and that's what "diversified Oneness" do, witness to the TRUTH.

PICJAG

Ps if you can't answer who just asks....... :cool:

 

[Dave L]

GINOLJC, to all.

First, thanks for the reply, second, so we can take this again as you have no clue who chose Paul on the road to Damascus?. .... ...lol. Oh well, no suprises there, but,

instead of vain jangling, or other words not being sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. we who know and believe "diversified Oneness" put our doctrine where our mouth is, instead of men whom you call your church father, who has lied. yes, men do lie, especially those in the Churches, (see Romans 3:4).

"Who Chose Paul as his Minister".
was it the one whom many calls the "Father", or was it the one whom many calls the "Son".

Let's hear what the REAL Church father's say about this. in Acts chapter 9 Paul, then Saul, on his way to Damascus meets the Lord Jesus, and is instructed to contuine on into the city where he will be told what to do. the disciple Ananias and the Lord Jesus have a conversation. Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel"

here, clear as DAY, God, the Lord Jesus, says, "for he is a chosen vessel unto me". some have said, it was the Father who chose Paul for his Son Jesus. ok, let's see if this is true.

Paul when much later returned to Jersalem, he told the Jews this account, and we pick up the account in chapter 22 of acts. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Acts 22:15 "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard".

The God of our fathers hath chosen thee?, notice the verse said "THE" God of our fathers.
ok, but was it the one whom many calls the "Father" or the one called the "Son"?. that thou shouldest know his will, (His Will?) and see that Just One, (and see the Just one... Jesus), and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. (and it wwas Jesus speaking to Paul). many right here say this was the Father's wiil for Paul to see and hear his "Son", what you say?

here is an open challenge to any trinitarian. Ananias said, "the God of our fathers" had chosen Paul, and the prophet Malachi said, 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?". now the One who CREATED us is the ONE who MADE us. scripture,

Exhibit A. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein".
(so it was the LORD, all caps who "CREATED" all things).

Exhibit B. Isaiah 37:16 "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth". (and it's again the LORD, all caps who "MADE" all things).

To be perfectly
Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else".

Uh O ........ here in Isaiah 45:18 the LORD, all caps said he, meaning ONE PERSON. he Created and MADE the "heaven" and the "Earth", the LORD aoo caps by himself. ONE PERSON.

now John 1:3 said "him", meaning the "Son", as your trinity doctrine states, a separate and distict person, made all things. well your church fathers just lied when that said the Father is not the Son, yes your church Fathers, L...I...E...D to you. yes, the scriptures are clear, Romans 3:4a "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged".

say what? "That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings", and WHAT ELSE? "and mightest overcome when thou art judged". .....

now for the TRUE answer as to who chose Paul as his minister, ...... the true answer the FATHER, who is the Lord JESUS, whom youignorantly calls the second person in your treinity.

we have the the scripures to prove it, as we did above, but right in the book of acts itself it tells us plainly and clearly who chose Paul in black and white. yes, we have the TRUE Letters of the church fathers....

is this getting weighter enough for you... yes, a weight of "ONE", the Lord God, Jesus the Almaghty.

one cannot stand aganist the TRUTH, but only witness to it, and that's what "diversified Oneness" do, witness to the TRUTH.

PICJAG

Ps if you can't answer who just asks....... :cool:

If you compare the historic Christian view of the Trinity with the Oneness doctrines, you can see they do not represent the same God or Christ.

The doctrine of the Trinity can be summarized in seven statements. (1) There is only one God. (2) The Father is God. (3) The Son is God. (4) The Holy Spirit is God. (5) The Father is not the Son. (6) The Son is the not the Holy Spirit. (7) The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

The Athanasian Creed puts it this way: “Now this is the catholic [universal] faith: That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons, nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit, still another. But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.”

Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects monarchianism which believes in only one person (mono) and maintains that the Son and the Spirit subsists in the divine essence as impersonal attributes not distinct and divine Persons.

Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects modalism which believes that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God acting in different roles or manifestations (like the well-intentioned but misguided “water, vapor, ice” analogy).

Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects Arianism which denies the full deity of Christ.

And finally, orthodox Trinitarianism rejects all forms of tri-theism, which teach that the three members of the Godhead are, to quote a leading Mormon apologist, “three distinct Beings, three separate Gods.”

The danger in Oneness is the Spirit of Antichrist who rejects both the Father and the Son as two distinct persons in the triune Godhead.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11) (KJV 1900)

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22) (KJV 1900)

 

[101G]

If you compare the historic Christian view of the Trinity with the Oneness doctrines, you can see they do not represent the same God or Christ.

LOL, I'm diversified oneness, see you're blind to that fact, and of God being a diversity of himself in flesh, the scriptures are true, Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned".

see dave the book here, the bible, is a sealed book. it takes the Holy Spirit to open the seals as said in Revelation chapter 5. it makes no difference if one is educated or not, without the Holy Spirit the bible is still sealed to you.... lol. that's why you can't answer not ONE single question. see you as Isaiah said, "stagger, but not with strong drink". that's why you keep on rambling about your church fathers. you're staggering at the word of God, why? "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes", that's why. just as the Lord JESUS told those with him in the garden "sleep on".... :cool:

so keep on sleeping with your church fathers whom you believe in....

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

LOL, I'm diversified oneness, see you're blind to that fact, and of God being a diversity of himself in flesh, the scriptures are true, Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned".

see dave the book here, the bible, is a sealed book. it takes the Holy Spirit to open the seals as said in Revelation chapter 5. it makes no difference if one is educated or not, without the Holy Spirit the bible is still sealed to you.... lol. that's why you can't answer not ONE single question. see you as Isaiah said, "stagger, but not with strong drink". that's why you keep on rambling about your church fathers. you're staggering at the word of God, why? "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes", that's why. just as the Lord JESUS told those with him in the garden "sleep on".... :cool:

so keep on sleeping with your church fathers whom you believe in....

PICJAG.

Diversified Oneness = the same heresy repackaged under another name at the same warehouse.

 

[101G]

this hard question has been answered, but we need the qualifying scriptures that certify that it is the Lord Jesus who chose Paul. Lord's willing we will give the answer this evening.

so all trinity believers, go to your warehouse, and look under the heading "church fathers", subheading "trinity", and post your answer.

you have all day to read the book of acts and find the certifying scriptures as to why as Ananias calls the Lord JESU the God of our fathers....

if you cannot find the answer in your warehouse of the church fathers, do what the apostle James say do, James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:7 "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
James 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. ....

ok, you have all day to get the answer. as the prophet Elijah said, "How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him". ....

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

this hard question has been answered, but we need the qualifying scriptures that certify that it is the Lord Jesus who chose Paul. Lord's willing we will give the answer this evening.

so all trinity believers, go to your warehouse, and look under the heading "church fathers", subheading "trinity", and post your answer.

you have all day to read the book of acts and find the certifying scriptures as to why as Ananias calls the Lord JESU the God of our fathers....

if you cannot find the answer in your warehouse of the church fathers, do what the apostle James say do, James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:7 "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
James 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. ....

ok, you have all day to get the answer. as the prophet Elijah said, "How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him". ....

PICJAG.

So you think the entire church, which Jesus says the gates of hell will not prevail against, has been wrong about God, and lost, not knowing the true Christ, until you came along with your "diversified oneness" doctrine to straighten everyone out, including the oneness Pentecostals?

 

[101G]

The certifying scriptures as to why Ananias calls the Lord JESUS "the God of our fathers".

As the prophet Elijah said, "How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him"

let's get the correct opinion, not 101G's, nor dave's nor the supposed church fathers, but GOD's TRUTH, his TRUTH.

Ananias, a disciple of the Lord Jesus said unto him, (Paul). "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee". keep this word, "chosen" here in your mind, because it will be very important as to who "chose" Paul. as a matter of fact, it's the key to the correct understanding of this hard question. the word "chosen" here is the Greek word,
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
KJV: choose, make
keep this definition on hand, because it's very important to know. but notice this word can be translated as "make"

but there is another, or third account of the same event that the apostle Paul retold before king Agrippa when he appeal his case. in chapter 26, with now even more detail, we can see what happen clearly. let's pick up the account. Acts 26:14-16 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee".

ok, revelation time. here, the Lord Jesus said, that he appeared to Paul, to make him his MINISTER. so what's the revelation? it's in the word "to make". it's the same exact word for "chosen" used in Chapter 22 by Ananias, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai, as to who chose Paul. so it was the Lord JESUS after all who made/chose Paul, then Saul as his minister, who as Ananias said is the God of our Fathers. BINGO.

what a revelation. understand, it was JESUS without his body of flesh the One who saved Noah and his three sons and all of their wives by instructing him and his sons to build an ark. it was JESUS who called Abraham out of Ur. it was JESUS who spoke to Moses out of the burning bush. and here's the certifier, this Greek word G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai, "Chosen" is only found here in these two places of scripture, Acts 22:14, and acts 26 and vers 16, which is rendered "chosen", and "make" respectively (in the kjv). so there is no excuse that the meaning of "Chosen" in acts 22:14, and in acts 26:16 could be, or mean, something else. I suggest one research this out. it was the Lord Jesus, or as our brother Ananias said, "The GOD of our fathers", meaning the OT God, yes, that's Jesus without flesh, without bone, and without blood, the ONE and ONLY person who is God.

yes, the ONE TRUE God, the Spirit, who is Holy, the HOLY SPIRIT who "CREATED" and "MADE" all things, (Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3), the God and ONLY one God by himself who "Chose" Paul.

These are the certifying scriptures without a doubt prove that JESUS is the ONE and ONLY TRUE God of the OT as well as the NT, hence diversified in flesh as a man, NT.

how easy is it to "certify" the scriptures by the scriptures.

this is why no trinitarian can answer these hard questions. nor can "Those" church fathers. notice how we said "those" church fathers....... for we have the TRUE Church fathers letters unchanged.

and true, the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it", that is Christ Church, why? because it's built upon the ROCK, and who is the ROCK? NOT Peter, .... not a mere man... "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he". Deuteronomy 32:3 & 4 (kjv). look at how JESUS is describing himself... glory to God our Saviour, JESUS, the actual ROCK..

Conclusion: did your church father write about this? I guess not. it's also no use then to ask about the remaining questions, for you have no clue.

as said until "THIS GOSPEL IS PREACHED UNTO ALL THE WORLD" then the end....... :cool:

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

...this is why no trinitarian can answer these hard questions...

101G,

You still do not have any idea about this subject. At the same time, it would be a waste of time to correct your false beliefs at this time. You have heard enough Bible truth to refute your fantasies, and you have rejected all of it. And the Bible says "An heretic after the first and second admonition reject".