Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

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Scott Downey

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Here is another 'proof' that the kingdom we are receiving is not of this world.
Convention thought is the millennial reign of Christ and His people reigning, is on this current world. That there are unsaved, unbelievers still roaming the world resisting Christ.
To me, scripture says differently

The conventional millennial reign thought is flesh and blood inherits the kingdom of God as during the '1000 yr reign' Christ rules as a physical king over an unsaved still corrupted world, ruling over the unsaved with a rod of iron with his saved people beside Him. Babies are born, people plant and build, people disobey Christ and still fight against God, Christ, Holy angels and God's people who rule over them from Jerusalem for 1000 years, and who are ultimately beaten by the devil and they must call on God from Heaven for help to deliver them from evil at the very end of the 1000 years.

Don't you all see how CARNAL all of that is?

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 12

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hear the Heavenly Voice​

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [k]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.”


27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.


28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [l]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 

CadyandZoe

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When are they?

The “days of the Son of man” would seem to point to the intra-Advent period – the time between Christ’s First Advent and His Second. This is the Messianic age.
The Days of the Son of man are when the Son of man is ruling on earth as described by Daniel during the Millennial Period.
 

CadyandZoe

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Strange to say that as that is what Christ says. As did also Martha about her brother right to Christ's face.
Jesus and Martha discussed the final day, the great white throne judgment. This event takes place at the end of the Millennial period. Paul describes a resurrection event that will take place at the beginning of the Millennial period.
 

CadyandZoe

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Here is another 'proof' that the kingdom we are receiving is not of this world.
Convention thought is the millennial reign of Christ and His people reigning, is on this current world.
It is important to understand that during the Millennial period, a time of significant spiritual and societal transformation, the disciples of Christ will exercise authority and reign alongside Him over the living survivors of the earth. These individuals who are reigning with Christ are those who have been born again and sanctified, reflecting their genuine faith and commitment to His teachings. However, it’s crucial to note that the same cannot be assumed for the survivors themselves. The living individuals who endure through this period may not necessarily share the same spiritual renewal or sanctification as those chosen to reign, potentially leaving a distinction between the rulers and the ruled in terms of their spiritual status.
 

CadyandZoe

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Just look at what you had said. He too believes that the Millennium will be realized before the last day. That's what he agrees with. Is there something hard to understand about that?

The last day is the day that believers are resurrected (John 6:40). And they are resurrected when Jesus returns (1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Thess 4:14-17, etc.). So, that places the timing of the Millennium before the day Jesus returns. That supports Amill. So, what you said supports Amill, but you don't even know it.
It depends on what the Bible means by last day doesn't it? I don't agree with the Amillennial position that the Second Advent marks the last day. The Last Day is described in Revelation 20:11-15, which comes after the Millennial period and the destruction of Satan.
 

WPM

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Here is another 'proof' that the kingdom we are receiving is not of this world.
Convention thought is the millennial reign of Christ and His people reigning, is on this current world. That there are unsaved, unbelievers still roaming the world resisting Christ.
To me, scripture says differently

The conventional millennial reign thought is flesh and blood inherits the kingdom of God as during the '1000 yr reign' Christ rules as a physical king over an unsaved still corrupted world, ruling over the unsaved with a rod of iron with his saved people beside Him. Babies are born, people plant and build, people disobey Christ and still fight against God, Christ, Holy angels and God's people who rule over them from Jerusalem for 1000 years, and who are ultimately beaten by the devil and they must call on God from Heaven for help to deliver them from evil at the very end of the 1000 years.

Don't you all see how CARNAL all of that is?

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 12

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hear the Heavenly Voice​

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [k]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.”


27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.


28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [l]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Does the millennium occur before or after the second coming?
 

Eternally Grateful

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Here is another 'proof' that the kingdom we are receiving is not of this world.
Convention thought is the millennial reign of Christ and His people reigning, is on this current world. That there are unsaved, unbelievers still roaming the world resisting Christ.
To me, scripture says differently

The conventional millennial reign thought is flesh and blood inherits the kingdom of God as during the '1000 yr reign' Christ rules as a physical king over an unsaved still corrupted world, ruling over the unsaved with a rod of iron with his saved people beside Him. Babies are born, people plant and build, people disobey Christ and still fight against God, Christ, Holy angels and God's people who rule over them from Jerusalem for 1000 years, and who are ultimately beaten by the devil and they must call on God from Heaven for help to deliver them from evil at the very end of the 1000 years.

Don't you all see how CARNAL all of that is?

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 12

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hear the Heavenly Voice​

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [k]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.”


27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.


28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [l]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

Can you tell us when this has occured?
 

Scott Downey

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Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

Can you tell us when this has occured?
Happens after Christ's return. They have no water, so they have no life. They are in hell receiving their just punishment, they are excluded from the presence of the Lord.

Try reading this.

2 Thess 1

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 

CadyandZoe

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Happens after Christ's return. They have no water, so they have no life. They are in hell receiving their just punishment, they are excluded from the presence of the Lord.

Try reading this.

2 Thess 1

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
If they have no life, they can't come up to Jerusalem.
 

CadyandZoe

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Do you have any corroboration for that?
There are lots of verses. Here is one example.

Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the Lord will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be the pride and the adornment of the survivors of Israel.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Happens after Christ's return. They have no water, so they have no life. They are in hell receiving their just punishment, they are excluded from the presence of the Lord.
They are alive, and as living people. they refused to come and worship the king in the land of israel. and because of it. God punishes them by not allowing rain on their land

Come on man, if your going to convince me you have to do better than that..
 
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Scott Downey

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They are alive, and as living people. they refused to come and worship the king in the land of israel. and because of it. God punishes them by not allowing rain on their land

Come on man, if your going to convince me you have to do better than that..
2 Thess 1 vs Zech 14, which one will you believe! As your understanding of Zech 14 is at odds with 2 Thess 1

Which states all unbelieving and all those who do not obey Christ get wiped out. They are gone, turned in to ashes.

I am going to believe what 2 Thess 1 says as it is NT prophetic words close to the time of Christ, not the old covenant parables (stories) about the end in Zech 14.

And you realize they cannot both be true according to the way you view them. See people who believe in an earthly millennial reign do not believe what 2 Thess 1 says. There are no unsaved survivors when Christ returns.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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2 Thess 1 vs Zech 14, which one will you believe! As your understanding of Zech 14 is at odds with 2 Thess 1

Which states all unbelieving and all those who do not obey Christ get wiped out. They are gone, turned in to ashes.

I am going to believe what 2 Thess 1 says as it is NT prophetic words close to the time of Christ, not the old covenant parables (stories) about the end in Zech 14.

And you realize they cannot both be true according to the way you view them. See people who believe in a millennial reign do not believe what 2 Thess 1 says. There are no unsaved survivors when Christ returns.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain

when did these things happen?

2 thess 1 has no bearing.. The question is did/will what God say would happen or did/will it not happen?

one thing is for sure. if they do not happen, God is a liar
 
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Scott Downey

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16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain

when did these things happen?

2 thess 1 has no bearing.. The question is did/will what God say would happen or did/will it not happen?

one thing is for sure. if they do not happen, God is a liar
Parables, prophecies, stories including Revelation can have to be explained to be understood with the correct meaning.
You cannot setup such a disconnect one from the other. There are no unsaved survivors when Christ returns, He slays them all who do not obey the gospel and who do not know God..

Here is another OT scripture that says they are all destroyed on the Day of the Lord's return

Malachi 4

New King James Version


The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”