Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Phoneman777]

2. Contextually, the 2300 DAYS prophecy does not provide any directive to do any such math, except to follow the historical setting, and then pinpoint the date of the prophetic event, revealed in history.

The starting point of the 70 is the starting point of the 2300 - because the one is "cut off" ("chatak") from the other.

The math is actually very very simple:

457 B.C. + 2300 years = 1844 A.D. - the "cleansing of the sanctuary"

 

[Earburner]

The starting point of the 70 is the starting point of the 2300 - because the one is "cut off" ("chatak") from the other.

The math is actually very very simple:

457 B.C. + 2300 years = 1844 A.D. - the "cleansing of the sanctuary"

Actually no, that is an SDA doctrine. I don't believe that at all. To me it's a fabrication.
Daniel 8 is what I am understanding to be historically accurate in 1 Maccabees.
Jesus then used the "AoD" in typology to speak of Himself, just as He did with the real event of Jonah and fish, by pointing to Himself.

 

[Earburner]

Friend, it's high time people abandon this idea that the four division of Greece were somehow "additional kingdoms" to be factored into the prophetic timeline between Greece and Rome.

The fact is that the four divisions of Greece remained Greek - in culture, education, science, philosophy, mythology, democracy, economy, and worship - understand?

Where and when did I say otherwise???
The Hellenistic kingdoms of "the four heads" WAS "the latter time" of the Grecian Empire, the 3rd BEAST.
I thought that I made that very clear, with scripture.

From my previous post:
[23] AND in the latter time of THEIR kingdom [3rd beast-Grecian], when the transgressors are come to the FULL, a king of fierce countenance** ["the little horn"], and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
[24] And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy ["trodden under foot"-Dan. 8:13-14***] the mighty and the holy people** [of Israel].

By the way, did you know that from the giving of the Law of Moses, to the day of Christ's baptism, it is known as "The Age of Transgression". However, since Jesus death and resurrection, we have been in "The Age of God's Grace", through FAITH in Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually no, that is an SDA doctrine. I don't believe that at all.

Let's get something straight:

LONG BEFORE THERE WAS AN SDA CHURCH, the entire Christian world was teaching Christianity was entering the "1,000 years of peace" (because the papal antichrist had received its "deadly wound" and was no longer slaughtering "Protestant heretics" who believe "Solo Scriptura"). The second half of the 19th century saw a worldwide phenomenon sweep over the globe which became known as the "Great Religious Awakening" when Christians all over the world suddenly and simultaneously began studying prophecy, particularly the passages of Daniel and Revelation, and many discovered the 2300 Days prophecy and correctly calculated 1844 as the year it would be fulfilled but incorrectly assigned the Second Coming to that date...understand?

These people who were minority members in their respective Christian denominations were derogatorily called "Adventists" and eventually were kicked out for their "heretical" teaching that Jesus was coming soon.

God winks at our ignorance, but He does not turn a blind eye to deliberate misrepresentation of the facts, of which you have been well acquainted now.

To me it's a fabrication.
Daniel 8 is what I am understanding to be historically accurate in 1 Maccabees.
Jesus then used the "AoD" in typology to speak of Himself, just as He did with the real event of Jonah and fish, by pointing to Himself.

I've shown you why the 70 Weeks and the 2300 Days are intrinsically tied, but you offer no rebuttal, as is the case with everyone with which I've discussed this issue, friend.

• Can you tell me from what the 70 Weeks are cut off?
• Can you tell me what is reference by "understand the matter and consider the vision ("mareh")"?
• Can you explain why Daniel had a theological nervous breakdown if the 2300 Days referred to only a literal, miniscule 6 1/3 years more of pollution instead of 2300 years more of it?

No one seems to want to step up to the plate...all I hear is "Maccabees" or "Antiochus Epiphanes" or other such things, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

Where and when did I say otherwise???
The Hellenistic kingdoms of "the four heads" WAS "the latter time" of the Grecian Empire, the 3rd BEAST.
I thought that I made that very clear, with scripture.

From my previous post:
[23] AND in the latter time of THEIR kingdom [3rd beast-Grecian], when the transgressors are come to the FULL, a king of fierce countenance** ["the little horn"], and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
[24] And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy ["trodden under foot"-Dan. 8:13-14***] the mighty and the holy people** [of Israel].

By the way, did you know that from the giving of the Law of Moses, to the day of Christ's baptism, it is known as "The Age of Transgression". However, since Jesus death and resurrection, we have been in "The Age of God's Grace", through FAITH in Christ.

Yes, the Third "Leopard" Beast aka "belly and thighs of brass" aka "rough goat" all point to Greece, with the four divisions of Greece remaining "Greek" until the Fourth "iron" Beast - Rome - conquered everything and became a world empire.

 

[Earburner]

Let's get something straight:

LONG BEFORE THERE WAS AN SDA CHURCH, the entire Christian world was teaching Christianity was entering the "1,000 years of peace" (because the papal antichrist had received its "deadly wound" and was no longer slaughtering "Protestant heretics" who believe "Solo Scriptura"). The second half of the 19th century saw a worldwide phenomenon sweep over the globe which became known as the "Great Religious Awakening" when Christians all over the world suddenly and simultaneously began studying prophecy, particularly the passages of Daniel and Revelation, and many discovered the 2300 Days prophecy and correctly calculated 1844 as the year it would be fulfilled but incorrectly assigned the Second Coming to that date...understand?

These people who were minority members in their respective Christian denominations were derogatorily called "Adventists" and eventually were kicked out for their "heretical" teaching that Jesus was coming soon.

God winks at our ignorance, but He does not turn a blind eye to deliberate misrepresentation of the facts, of which you have been well acquainted now.

I've shown you why the 70 Weeks and the 2300 Days are intrinsically tied, but you offer no rebuttal, as is the case with everyone with which I've discussed this issue, friend.

• Can you tell me from what the 70 Weeks are cut off?
• Can you tell me what is reference by "understand the matter and consider the vision ("mareh")"?
• Can you explain why Daniel had a theological nervous breakdown if the 2300 Days referred to only a literal, miniscule 6 1/3 years more of pollution instead of 2300 years more of it?

No one seems to want to step up to the plate...all I hear is "Maccabees" or "Antiochus Epiphanes" or other such things, friend.

What is your scripture reference for the words "cut off"?
Please give that scripture only. You have already given your understanding.
Thanks.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, the Third "Leopard" Beast aka "belly and thighs of brass" aka "rough goat" all point to Greece, with the four divisions of Greece remaining "Greek" until the Fourth "iron" Beast - Rome - conquered everything and became a world empire.

Yes, as you can see, I do agree to what the 3rd beast was, because what took place in the latter time of the 3rd beast, was the prophesied event against God and Israel, concerning "the abomination that maketh desolate", aka the desolation of their temple/ sanctuary in 167-160 BC. Specifically recorded in 1 Maccabees 1:20-24.
And yes, Jesus did point back (in the past) to that event of the "AoD" (Mark 13:14).

BUT, in what manner of "when YE shall SEE the AoD" (in the future), is a matter that "church-ianity" HAS altogether corrupted by misunderstanding the "70 weeks", through their incessant, foolish and FALSE belief that the "AoD" is still future, when in all reality, the "AoD" took place 2024 years ago, on the Cross of Jesus, which was immediately in HIS future, while in mortal flesh.
 John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [desolate] this temple, and in three days I will raise [restore] it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Do you not see that Jesus used the prophesied and FULFILLED event of the "AoD" in Daniel, by using "typology"?

Q. Why typology??
A. Because once prophesy has been fulfilled, it will never come to be again, but it can be used by typology.

Therefore, there is no "AoD" to come (again), nor is there a "little horn" to come (again), such as a singular, one man band man, that church-ianity loves to Call "THE Antichrist".
Did you know that in all of the KJV, one will never find the words: "the antichrist" strung together!!!

"Error during search of Bible, King James Version. Your simple query produced no results."​

Are there MANY antichrists?
Of course there are, of whom all of such are INFECTED by "that [singular] spirit of antichrist", which are they who DENY that Jesus has come to us in the flesh.
NT scripture is VERY CLEAR on what "that (singular) spirit of antichrist" is and does:

1John.2​

[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1John.4​

[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2John.1​

[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Q. So then, what does "that spirit of antichrst" do?
A. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,

It DENIES that Jesus has come to us in the flesh.

 

[Phoneman777]

What is your scripture reference for the words "cut off"?
Please give that scripture only. You have already given your understanding.
Thanks.

First, what does the Bible say was the reason Gabriel came and presented the 70 Weeks prophecy to Daniel?

 

[Phoneman777]

It DENIES that Jesus has come to us in the flesh.

The papacy denies Jesus came in the same flesh you and I have - fallen flesh - which is how they legitimize taking the place of Christ ("antichrist") as the mediator between God and man:

They claim His "different" flesh than what we have makes Him "unapproachable" so we must go to the priesthood so they can go to Him in our behalf.

"Just as no man cometh to the Father except through the Son, no man cometh to the Son except through the priesthood."

 

[Earburner]

The papacy denies Jesus came in the same flesh you and I have - fallen flesh - which is how they legitimize taking the place of Christ ("antichrist") as the mediator between God and man:

They claim His "different" flesh than what we have makes Him "unapproachable" so we must go to the priesthood so they can go to Him in our behalf.

"Just as no man cometh to the Father except through the Son, no man cometh to the Son except through the priesthood."

The Papacy is a Religion** of unsaved men, which is not to be confused with the laity of the RCC, that have faith in Jesus as their Savior, and do read the DR Bible, which is much like the KJV in translation.

Any other religious construct, for the worship of God, by the Papacy, is of course forced upon the laity, for their free will choice to believe it, or not believe it.
I know of many Catholics that do not worship the Saints or Mary, but they DO believe in Jesus, knowing full well that the Pope is not Him.

**Note: "Religion": being equivalent to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.,... including satanism.

 

[Earburner]

First, what does the Bible say was the reason Gabriel came and presented the 70 Weeks prophecy to Daniel?

I do believe I asked the question first about your use of the words "cut off", and what scripture reference you are using.
Are you lacking confidence in how you "stand" with it?
Edit:
So then, when you answer my question first, I will answer your question directly, along with scripture for understanding.

 

[Earburner]

Cont'd from #350:
The Papacy performs the words of Christ literally, in conjunction with their traditions of belief from the "early church fathers", of which theorized and taught their understanding through "the wisdom of men, and not by the power/authority of God's Holy Spirit".- 1 Cor. 2:5.

All of such, whether Catholic or Protestant, no matter what the heirarchal persuasion, or name is of their particular church, does the same, by following the base operation of their church founder(s), being that of the traditions and doctrines of men/women.
Personally, I brand them ALL as being CHURCH-ianity.
The only people who are the Saints of God, are those who are "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God from above, which is the Spirit of Christ Rom. 8:8-9. All of such are "peppered" among ALL the churches that profess and declare that the Eternal Christ, "the Promised One who was to come" was made manifest in the flesh.

 "ALL the churches have SOME OF His Truth, but NONE OF the churches have ALL OF His Truth"- Earburner

 

[Kabone]

Gen. 3
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Sorry, but I’ve seen this quoted a lot. That implies that at that moment man does not live forever. So I get confused why in genesis 6 god says he’s not going to allow man to live forever and then puts a cap of 120 years. Then in Gen 7 Noah is 600 years old. And the rest of genesis has all these dudes who live for hundreds of years.
Also apologies for creating a subtopic of a subtopic.

 

[Earburner]

Sorry, but I’ve seen this quoted a lot. That implies that at that moment man does not live forever. So I get confused why in genesis 6 god says he’s not going to allow man to live forever and then puts a cap of 120 years. Then in Gen 7 Noah is 600 years old. And the rest of genesis has all these dudes who live for hundreds of years.
Also apologies for creating a subtopic of a subtopic.

Though God said that He would confine/limit the life of humans to be 120 years, you will see that when you follow the names of those in Genesis, gradually people lived shorter lives.

Gen. 23[1] And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty [127] years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah.

Gen. 25[7] And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen [175] years.

 

[Taken]

Dear Phoneman777,
God's Word clearly says that Christ will save all mankind. I quoted just three of the scriptures that state so.

I will presume your point is:
Christ SHALL “MAKE” ALL of manKIND Believers and Thereafter SAVE ALL souls of ManKIND?

Facts that APPLY to “ALL” of manKIND…
* BODY- of MANKIND ~
ALL have a body, Formed by God. Blood is the Life of the Body. All Body’s SHALL, MUST Die. All Body’s are naturally Conceived and born IN the sin of unbelief. All born bodies continue to Commit the sin of unbelief…UNTIL they hear, learn, About God, and Freely Choose to Believe. The Hearing of, learning About God, IS the means via which God Blesses that individual with a measured Gift from God, called Faith.
That Body can Freely Continue to Receive Faith, by Continuing hearing and learning About God…AS WELL, that Body can at any time of it’s own Freewill, Reject Gods Gift of Faith, Stop receiving, Stop accepting. Thus Deny the faith, EVEN advocate to others to Reject Gods Gift of Faith. (They are called FALLEN from Faith).
A Body CAN Freely Choose to Receive Gods OFFERED Gift of Salvation, (According to Gods Order and Way). As Well a Body can Freely Choose to NOT receive Gods OFFERED Gift of Salvation of it’s Soul.
Gods OFFERED Gift of Salvation for a mans SOUL, IS ONY GIVEN that Body…
AFTER that Body has Experienced a Qualified accounted Death. (Again According to Gods Order and Way).

* SOUL- of ManKIND ~
ALL souls belong to God. Gods Breath is the Life of the Soul. Once the BODY has been FORMED by God, and it’s Bodily Life (BLOOD), is capable of individually sustaining the Life of the Body…(generally a course of time of 9 months)…the Body is prepared to be; separated from the Placenta In the womb of its birth mother; called a Natural Birth.
As the God Formed Body is being delivered FROM the Placenta, From the mothers Womb, God IS Present to Gift the Babe with Gods Gift of a Living SOUL, of Gods Breath of LIFE IN that SOUL
As the BODY IS conceived, born IN the SIN of Unbelief, that BODY having receive a Living SOUL from God…A DILEMMA BY DEFAULT IS Established…
A Good Godly SOUL with Gods LIFE, entered INTO a BODY “AGAINST” God…(Since THAT WHICH IS NOT “WITH” God by default IS AGAINST God.) A body conceived and naturally born knows NOT of God, thus IS Against God.

The delivered born babe immediately begins “growing” learning, trusting, maturing. The father, the mother, become tasked and entrusted (By God) to themselves BE trustworthy unto that child, to care for, teach,
That child About God as well as About Precepts, reading, arithmetic, history, science, skills, choices, Consequences thereof. Etc.

The MIND of manKIND, is called a CARNAL MIND. It is predisposed to receive knowledge and cipher knowledge through LOGIC to determine if that knowledge BE true or false.
The CARNAL MIND by default OF LOGIC, is predisposed to BE AGAINST God.
* Meaning…God IS INVISIBLE, Neither able to be SEEN, HEARD, SMELLED, TASTED, TOUCHED….(Which are the VERY things a natural man USES to Communicate) and Logically cipher what TO Believe and what TO Not Believe.

The SPIRIT of manKIND ~
(Aside from the Carnal Mind) ManKIND has thoughts IN his Natural Spirit, WHICH IS:
Thoughts IN HIS HEART.
These THOUGHTS, have nothing to do with ciphering and Logically concluding BETWEEN this Knowledge and that Knowledge.
The THOUGHTS in the Heart ARE a CONCLUSION of Absolute TRUE BELIEFS of the individual.
For Examples:
A babe called… Son, boy, Daughter, girl, William, Susan. This place is their home, This man is their daddy. This woman is their mommy. That thing is an animal. That thing is dirt. That thing is the Sun. That thing is a book. This thing is a room, This thing is water….ON and on, things they can see, (and many times touch) on any given day, and TRUST in their Heart’s Thoughts those things ARE what they ARE.

Gods TEACHING and OFFERING TO ALL of ManKIND… HAS ALWAYS BEEN…
* ManKINDS BODY SHALL DIE.
* ManKIND SHALL suffer Tribulations, wars, trickery, deceit, oppressions, FROM other men.
* God Controls the Weather.
* ManKIND WHO Hears/ Reads/ Learns/ Gods Word, SHALL be given measures of Gods Gift of FAITH.
* A man who receives Gods Gift of Faith, CAN freely Choose to Continue Receiving Faith or Reject, Denounce, Deny Gods Gift of Faith.
* God CAN “restore” a mans SOUL, via God Giving that man Gods Offered Gift of SALVAtION.
* God CAN “receive” a mans DEAD BODY, as that mans WILLING PAYMENT for that SIN of disbelief Against God.
* God CAN “Forgive” a mans SIN of natural birth Against God and a mans days of Disbelief IN God.
* God CAN “QUICKEN” a mans natural SPIRIT unto a SPIRIT “reborn” of Gods SINLESS SEED.
* God CAN “MAKE” a mans BODY, “ANEW CREATURE”, that it BE VOID of ALL SIN, and thus in Gods LIKENESS, and thus ABLE TO …
SEE God AS HE IS.

These ARE Gods Offerings to ManKIND.
These Offerings ARE Expressly According to Gods “TERMS”;
His Order, His Way, His Manner, His Timeframe…

IT IS manKIND’S FREEWILL OPTION, CHOICE, ELECTION, TO Take, Receive, Have, Hold, Keep, Reject, Deny, Gods Offerings.

* Most certainly and assuredly God DESIRES, WILLS, WISHES, PREFERS…
That ALL of manKIND SHALL Freely, willingly, Decide, Choose, Elect: the Lord God Almighty TO BE THEIR God Forever….

* HOWEVER…NOT ALL of natural living manKIND Shall, Will, Decide, Choose, Elect the Lord God Almighty TO BE THEIR GOD.

* EXPRESSLY…Out of ALL of manKind, Ever to be naturally born…BILLIONS of manKind since the beginning of manKind….
ONLY a FEW (in perspective of Billions) SHALL Heartfully Freely, Decide, Choose, Elect the Lord God Almighty to be their God…FOREVER.

* IT IS…(according to Gods Order, Way, Manner) A mans Freewill Option, Decision, Choice…TO ELECT the Lord God Almighty…
TO BE THEIR GOD FOREVER…
** MUST BE and ELECTION a manKIND of Being….MAKES… WHILE that manKIND of Being “IS” ALIVE IN his NATURAL FLESH BODILY (Blood) LIFE.
** Once the manKIND of being’s Bodily Life (Blood) is DEAD…the OPTION for that manKinds ABILITY to CHOOSE the Lord Gods Almighty TO BE His God FOREVER…is Become VOID, MOOT, Unavailable.

Continued…The Mystery…

 

[Taken]

Continued…The Mystery…

Remembering…ALL souls are ALIVE, having Gods Breath of Life.
All souls Belong to God.
Souls with Life are given into a natural born body.
Living souls ARE DEPARTED OUT of natural Dead body’s.
* Natural body’s THAT WHICH heartfully Believed…AFTER the body’s death….such souls, BECOME MADE (by Gods Power) “SAVED” SOULS.
* Natural body’s THAT WHICH heartfully Rejected Belief…AFTER the body’s death, such souls, REMAIN “UN-SAVED.”

God HAS established A PLACE…For departed living Saved souls, (to WAIT, in comfort, rest, peace) for Judgement Day WITH God IN Heaven.

God HAS established A PLACE…For departed living UN-Saved souls, (to WAIT, in duress) for Judgement Day withOUT God, IN Hell.

DID GOD, desire, will, wish, want, prefer….
THAT ALL of manKIND would BELIEVE in the Lord God Almighty by their own election?? During their bodily living (BLOOD) Life??

Absolutely!

SHALL ALL of manKIND BELIEVE In the Lord God Almighty

Absolutely!

WHEN??
WHEN will the UN-believing BELIEVE?

WHEN…they SEE “the Judge” … the Son of man, whom they were TOLD, IS the Son of God, IS the Lord, IS the Christ Messiah, IS God in the Likeness AS a man….
(but did not believe without SEEING)…

The DEAD, bloodless body’s of men SHALL have their LIVING SOULS imparted into their dead body’s. Their body’s with a living soul IN them, SHALL rise UP… THEY SHALL SEE the “JUDGE” … BELIEVE …. BOW DOW UNTO HIM IN WORSHIP …. AND THEN …

WHAT…?? Become MADE “saved” ??
No.
WHY NOT….??
Because it was REQUIRED for man to have Heartful Belief during his Natural (Blood) Life.
He was NOT RAISE UP, with his Natural (Blood) Life!

So what IS THE POINT of dead body’s being raised up, Seeing the Judge, Believing IN Him, and Bowing down IN Worship unto Him (even though, they shall not be Saved? )

** TO FULFLL Gods DESIRE, and FULFILL Prophecy…that ALL of manKIND SHALL BELIEVE and Bow down IN Worship unto God.

ManKIND IS GODS creation.
God desires ALL of manKIND to acknowledge, trust, believe IN God, that HE is their creator and maker.

God IS Jealous, Angry when men reject HIM, and rather instead choose another to BE their god.

God Himself, could HAVE with His supreme Power…”FORCED” ALL men to believe IN Him….but then A FORCED belief by a higher powers capability IS NOT a TRUE Belief.

Yet Gods demands, wills, that ALL of His created and man manKIND of Beings SHALL believe IN Him…Thus AS God ONCE Appeared to (primarily) ISRAEL in the likeness AS a man FOR men TO SEE…many who SAW Him, Believed…so also AGAIN SHALL God appear to ALL of manKIND….that UNBELIEVERS (who rejected Belief, without seeing…SHALL SEE Him, SHALL SEE His appearance IN the sky’s of Heaven, shall SEE His power effected….AS did a few others SEE the same (historically), and while alive in their body (Blood) did believe.

Souls of men…WHO trusted to Believe…without seeing….ARE already or shall be SAVED.
Souls of men…WHO rejected to trust to Belief without seeing…..shall have the life in their soul, (Gods Breath), departed their soul, returned to God…and their Lifeless body (void of blood) and their Lifeless soul (void of Gods Breath) and their Lifeless natural spirit (void of Gods Seed)…burned, destroyed, made ash, forgotten and remembered no more.

YES…..ALL SHALL believe IN the Lord God Almighty and Worship Him.

NO……ALL SHALL NOT be soul Saved, Spirit Quickened, Body glorified made anew creature without sin in the Likeness as the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[FaithWillDo]

Continued…The Mystery…

Glory to God,
Taken

Dear Taken,
You have correctly recited the "another gospel" of the apostate church. That false gospel is based on mixing the works of man with faith. This is the crooked way and the way of the crooked serpent.

By mixing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant, you are trying to serve two masters (Satan & Christ). This division within yourself will cause your house to fall (loss of salvation).

I noticed in your posts that you didn't include any scripture to support your comments. Anyone can make comments but only scripture teaches truth.

Where is your scripture that says mankind's has a "free will" ability?

Here is what scripture teaches about "free will" as it relates to the Elect:

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

The vessels of honor are the Elect. Christ chose them for this honor from the foundation of the world. Christ then caused their salvation to happen by His works (not their works). The Elect did nothing to deserve their blessing because they were not even born when they were chosen. They simply were chosen by God so "that the purpose of God according to election might stand".

Those who are not chosen for salvation in this age had no say so in it either. They were made to be vessels of dishonor. This happens to the vessels of dishonor because Christ chose not come to them and give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit before they die.

How can you read the verses I presented above and then still claim that you are the one who is responsible for choosing Christ?

By making your claim, you are STEALING from Christ and are claiming His work as your own. When you do this, it is the spirit of anti-Christ sitting within you (God's Temple) who is causing you to believe that you are equal with God the Father, who alone has a free will ability.

You also said that all mankind will believe in Christ but then you deny what these verses below teach:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ is the Savior and He is the one who will cause all mankind to be believe and be saved. He makes this happen by freely giving each person the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. No person has any ability to reject the Spirit when Christ gives it to them. Why do you believe mankind has this power to reject the Spirit? It is not taught in scripture.

Paul's conversion experience is the "type" of how Christ saves a person. Paul hated Christ and would have rejected the Spirit if Christ had asked him beforehand if he wanted to receive it. But Christ does not work this way. Christ does as He pleases:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

When Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, Christ freely gave Paul the Spirit. In response, Paul fell to the ground and called Jesus "Lord". This is how Christ comes to His Temple "suddenly" and is how Christ will save all mankind. Mankind has no say in the matter.

I want to make one last point which concerns your member name "Taken".

To be "taken" in scripture can mean one of two things.

The first meaning applies to when a believer is "taken" by Satan. This is when they enter the apostate church.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and TAKEN.

The second meaning applies during an Elect believer's conversion process. It happens when Christ takes the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot from within the Elect believer.

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came (judgment), and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field (one believer who has the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within them); the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ), and the other left (Holy Spirit). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill (the Great Harlot and the Holy Spirit); the one shall be taken (the Great Harlot), and the other left (Holy Spirit).

After they are "taken", they are cast into the Lake of Fire:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

If you believe that to be "taken" is referring to the teaching of the rapture, you are wrong. The rapture doctrine is false.

The only event that will occur at the end of the literal age is the bodily resurrection from the grave. This is when the Elect are given their spiritual bodies. The dead in Christ will receive their spiritual body first. Then the Elect who are still living, will receive their new body immediately afterwards.

This event is what Paul is describing below:

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Joe

 

[Taken]

Dear Taken,
You have correctly recited the "another gospel" of the apostate church. That false gospel is based on mixing the works of man with faith. This is the crooked way and the way of the crooked serpent.

Thanks for your comment.
Utter hogwash.

By mixing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant, you are trying to serve two masters (Satan & Christ). This division within yourself will cause your house to fall (loss of salvation).

Old Covenant…New Covenant…each is a between a man and the Lord God.

Obviously the individual “man” (should) know “which” Covenant Applies to himself and WHY.

Obviously the Old Covenant was given IN Ancient days, TO particular persons. Knowing History, even discussing History does not translate to “presuming” that Old Covenant Applies to men it did not Apply to Anciently. Yet it is through ignorance, to presume NO men, continue with the OLD Covenant.

I never said or implied, I was Hebrew, Israel, of any Tribe, and thus am perplexed why you presumed and assumed such….after as in other posts I have stressed, Gods Order and Way.

I noticed in your posts that you didn't include any scripture to support your comments. Anyone can make comments but only scripture teaches truth.

Sure. I have found, me stating my view is sufficient. An other can look up to see if it be true. An other can ask any specific question about any specific point, as they choose.

Where is your scripture that says mankind's has a "free will" ability?

The term “Freewill” is not stated in Scripture.
However via study OF Scripture man having the ability to exercise whatever Choice he desires is evident.

Here is what scripture teaches about "free will" as it relates to the Elect:

I read your example Scripts.
Yes…God Himself Gives to every seed it’s own body as He chooses.

Of course I am speaking of FREEWILL choices to DO, not Create a body.

Certainly SOME have obtained an inheritance, and others not. Same as God Himself shall gain an inheritance of some and not another.

Of course EVERYTHING is “predestined”…
The All Knowing God, already Knows every Choice we will make…
It is manKIND who DOES NOT KNOW his choice, UNTIL he decides and chooses.

Yes…God already knows…And Has Prepared for every Option man shall choose.

That has nothing to do with man hearing, deciding, freely choosing….This God, that god, this spouse, this city, this home, this career, this many children, this name, this food, this sport, this music, this art, this animal….on and on.

How can you read the verses I presented above and then still claim that you are the one who is responsible for choosing Christ?

EASY. I am afforded the Freedom, Freewill…or as Scriptures over 40 times expresses those concepts with the Word…
Liberty to Choose for myself AS I desire.

God KNOWING my choice beforehand….
Does not Equate to God Dictating my choice.

By making your claim, you are STEALING from Christ and are claiming His work as your own.

Utter hogwash.

I made my choice…I expressly acknowledge and accredit the Lord God FOR His Works, His Power to accomplish what He Offered according to what I Chose.

God the Father, who alone has a free will ability.

Disagree.

YOUR Scriptural evidence….??
And is your statement IN agreement or disagreement with Scripture… ??

Gen 2:
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

You also said that all mankind will believe in Christ but then you deny what these verses below teach:

False. No I did not deny scripture and in Fact EXPRESSLY SAID…ALL SHALL BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP HIM!

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.[/COLOR][/B]

Already expressly addressed…
Gods WILL, does not mean FORCE a man to believe, submit.

Absolutely God Desires ALL men to be SAVED….
However the FACT IS…NOT ALL Men themselves desire to be saved, desire to live forever, desire to be with God….
AND?
To my own disagreement You are edging on proposing …. God shall save EVERYONE, no matter what.

Have you NOT read, heard, studied… God gives to every man that mans hearts desire?

Pss 37:
[4] Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Pss 37….DO THIS…and…
[5] Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

OR REJECT HIM….and duh, He shall reject you!

Pss 37….DO THIS…and
[9] For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Christ is the Savior and He is the one who will cause all mankind to be believe and be saved.

Amen…Christ IS the SAVIOR.
False, that ALL SHALL BE SAVED.

He makes this happen by freely giving each person the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. No person has any ability to reject the Spirit when Christ gives it to them. Why do you believe mankind has this power to reject the Spirit? It is not taught in scripture.

Nonsense. No.
Christ does NOT FORCE a man to Believe.
Christ does NOT FORCE a man to Commit.
Christ does NOT Quicken a spirit of a man, who such man does NOT freely, willingly, Heartfully CHOOSE Him.

No man RECEIVES the Spirit of God…and then rejects the Spirit of God.

Men REJECT the Spirit of God…by their own freewill to NOT believe, NOT confess belief, NOT submit, Reject, and deny Him.

Paul's conversion experience is the "type" of how Christ saves a person. Paul hated Christ and would have rejected the Spirit if Christ had asked him beforehand if he wanted to receive it. But Christ does not work this way. Christ does as He pleases:

Saul, (the Pharisee), had Heard, Knew what exactly Jesus was preaching, Who Jesus was claiming to be….and that men in Belief IN Jesus were called Jesus “Lord”.

WHEN Jesus approached Saul…Jesus called out to Saul…
Saul answered to the voice he heard…
And Saul said:

Acts 9:
[3] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[4] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[5] And he (Saul) said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

AND Saul’s response once he Knew it was the Lord Jesus speaking to him…??

[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Duh…nothing FORCED as you imply.
Jesus identifies He is speaking to Saul.
Saul acknowledges Jesus the Lord is speaking to him.
Saul directly calls Jesus Lord, and then Freely, willingly, agrees to do whatever the Lord Jesus will ask him to do…!!

When Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, Christ freely gave Paul the Spirit.

False.

In response, Paul fell to the ground

In brief…
Saul responded to a BLINDING BRIGHT LIGHT that shone upon Him, blinded him.

Saul was NOT Baptized with the Holy Spirit. He was sent to particular places…a mans house, ….AND…when he received back His Sight, He received his Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[17] And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
[18] And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Saul/ Paul also spent 3 years (similar to the 12 disciples) Hearing, Learning, being TAUGHT in the spirit BY the Spirit of God.

Saul/Paul was received unto the other disciples/Apostles with skepticism and afraid of Saul/Paul….but were TOLD…

Acts 9:
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Saul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [/B]


Yes…the Lord Chose Saul/Paul…
And…Saul immediately AGREED to do whatever the Lord asked…

That is not FORCE!
That is the Lord desiring Saul to Choose to do as the Lord desired…and Saul Agreeing to do as the Lord desired.

Continued…

 

[Taken]

Continued….

I want to make one last point which concerns your member name "Taken".

To be "taken" in scripture can mean one of two things.

Taken IN Scripture means WHATEVER an individual has chosen to Submit and Surrender to.

I do not require a lecture on the meaning of submission or the receipt of ANOTHER having TAKEN a persons submission.

Your inference is out of line, or you are utterly ignorant of a person who has submitted unto the Lord God, and thereafter consistently, acknowledges Praise and Glory unto the Lord God Almighty!

If you believe that to be "taken" is referring to the teaching of the rapture

Never have I said or remotely implied such a thing…

I ELECTED, freely of my own will, to submit my whole (body, soul, spirit) unto the Lord God Almighty, for Him to KNOW, my choice, that He be my Master, my God…

And I fully trust, what I can NOT SEE, but that which the Lord God Promised, is He has fully Accepted TAKEN my (body, soul, spirit) unto Himself, His Power, to forgive, wash, sanctify, cover, dwell within me…..(you should know the whole list of Gods Works unto any individual who submits unto the Lord God)…

you are wrong. The rapture doctrine is false.

You make a bold statement, but your opinion is irrelevant.

The Lord God HAS NUMEROUS, BILLIONS of individual human beings and celestial beings to “expressly” deal with in the end of days as we know them.

It is NOT my dilemma, issue to worry about what you believe.

I trust the Lord Jesus Offered an EXPRESS Offering of a BETTER TESTAMENT, OF an option for a man to BECOME MADE …
Forgiven.
Soul Saved.
Spirit Quickened.
Body accounted DEAD, yet it be still Alive.
….
WITH NO NEED to participate, by subjection to Gods Tribulations, or appointed to Wrath…of which SHALL occur during the last days tribulation.
….
There is an EXPRESS exception, For Christ’s Church, to be EXCEPTED from Gods Tribulations and end of days WRATH…
Scripturally Called a “Catching Up”…”Caught Up”.
Well known in other languages…such as:
Harpazo, Rapio, Rapiemur, or English my preferred language…Rapture.

The only event that will occur at the end of the literal age is the bodily resurrection from the grave.

Resurrections, bodies raised from the dead, even raised from the grave….has occurred for centuries.

This is when the Elect are given their spiritual bodies.

yep…after the 1,000 year reign of Christ Jesus….Resurrected … not raptured.

The Sav-ED, Christ’s Church are Raptured ie., RAISED TO THE CLOUDS.
The Saved Resurrected are RAISED from their graves TO the Face of the Earth!
Big difference!

The dead in Christ will receive their spiritual body first.

Yep, 1,000 years before others.

Then the Elect who are still living, will receive their new body immediately afterwards.

The Living in their natural body…DO NOT RECEIVE a new body…

The OLD BODY MUST FIRST DIE.

You are all over the place, as IF you KNOW NOT which Scriptures apply to WHOM or WHY.

There absolutely SHALL BE a “Catching Up”.
It is expressly applicable to Christ’s Church.

They are already SANCTIFIED…forgiven, soul saved, spirit quickened, and body….already accounted DEAD…

what do you think Crucified WITH Christ Jesus means?

what do you think …. “IN” Christ means?

The body of a person “IN” Christ, is already accounted DEAD, and uhhh, they ARE LIVING “IN JESUS” RISEN BODY….(ding, ding, ding…. “ IN CHRIST” !!! ) until the DAY the Servant of the Lord, summons Christ’s Church UP to Meet their Lord, face to face…
Um…saved soul, quickened spirit, rising UP IN “THEIR” new body….meet the Lord…SEE Him as “HE IS”…
Thereafter Forever with Him where ever He goes!!

Jesus returns to Earth with His Angels.
Jesus returns to Earth with His Saints.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Phoneman777]

The Papacy is a Religion** of unsaved men, which is not to be confused with the laity of the RCC, that have faith in Jesus as their Savior, and do read the DR Bible, which is much like the KJV in translation.

Any other religious construct, for the worship of God, by the Papacy, is of course forced upon the laity, for their free will choice to believe it, or not believe it.
I know of many Catholics that do not worship the Saints or Mary, but they DO believe in Jesus, knowing full well that the Pope is not Him.

**Note: "Religion": being equivalent to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.,... including satanism.

The papacy claims to "take the place of Christ" which is the very definition of "antichrist".

The DR, according to experts, is the "Jesuit" version - which has many errors that conflict with the KJV, including Genesis 3:15 KJV which says "...shall lie in wait for her (Mary) heel" instead of "His heel". Jesuits are responsible for the Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism that has seduced so many "protestants".

The papacy fulfills all the identifying marks of antichrist in prophecy.