Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Satan is at work.. to me just further proof we are in the last days, the falling away is happening before our very eyes
Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yes, it is/was all planned.
Thats what romans 9 - 11 is about. Paul took a great pause to answer a problem and division in the church's concerning the old testament jews, and the way the jews were acting in Pauls day.
Sadly,, People took romans 9 out of context and created a doctrine that is illogical and not founded in scripture.
This is good.
Keep living like this.
It's good.
Just don't think YOU are the only one and tell everyone else they just don't understand.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles...a 2Surely you have heard about the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus. 7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power. 8Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,9and to illuminate for everyone the stewardshipb of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12In Him and through faith in Himc we may enter God’s presence with boldness and confidence. 13So I ask you not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory. Paul’s Prayer for the Ephesians 14... for this reason I bow my knees before the Father,d 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I ask that out of the riches of His glory He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Then you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18will have power, together with all the saints, to comprehend the length and width and height and depth 19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us, 21to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen |
Ritajanice
Born-Again
This is too funny EG.
I'm shocked TTYTT.
You even know about Romans 9 and all....not many do.
So which pagan heresy do you think the CC is following??
Amen to that brother!
You got that right!
It's used, INCORRECTLY, by those that want to say that God chose who will be saved.
You hit the nail on the head.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Jeremiah 14:14
14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.Read ChapterAll Versions
Jeremiah 23:16
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Tell me about the eucharist. and tell me why the eucharist does not give the use what Jesus promised in John 6, in fact where did it come from. because it does not resemble the supper Paul spoke of in his epistles.. and it does not in any way give what Jesus promised in John 6. so it is not found in the word of God.
Tell me about the pope. and the hat with the fish "dogan" on it. and why is he called pontifus maximus, do you know where that title came from? (are they even called that anymore?)
where do you think the cathedrals came from. How about all the acts of penance. The priesthood.
Christmas and Halloween are two well known pagan holidays that were given Christian names and characters.
Mother of God. do you know where this term came from? Mary was not the first to be called mother of God..
Can you tell me who started the roman church, who was one and the same high priest of the Babylonian mystery (Caesar) and the head of the new church of Rome?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
1I speak the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as confirmed by my conscience in the Holy Spirit. 2I have deep sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the law, the temple worship, and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise!a Amen. God’s Sovereign Choice (Genesis 25:19–28; Malachi 1:1–5) 6It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”b 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring. 9For this is what the promise stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”c 10Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e 14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f 16So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g18Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. 19One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?”h 21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory— 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people, and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”i 26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”j 27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”k 29It is just as Isaiah foretold: “Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah.”l Israel’s Unbelief 30What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense;m and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”n |
That's a bit much for 10.30 PM!
Maybe I'll go thru it quick and then, if you want, maybe more tomorrow.
THE EUCHARIST (remember, I'm not Catholic - I do know the doctrine).
Read John 6:53....in Greek it means to chew. In any case, it means TO EAT.
Check out Strong's --- The same word is used throughout the NT. It means TO EAT.
It changed because the church grew. It could no longer by a meal in the real sense of the word.
So they kept the bread and they kept the wine.
Jesus said to DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE of Me. It's a memorial. It's as if we were standing at the foot of the cross when HIS BODY was broken and given for us. Think of the Last Supper....THIS IS MY BODY, and He held the bread.
The more I study this, the more I believe in the Real Presence.
The ECFs did too. I could post some writings, but I know it won't make a difference.
I don't really care about the Pope since he's not as important as most Protestants think he is.
Don't know anything about the hat symbol.
The title: PONTEFICE
It means THE BRIDGE.
PONTE.
The bridge between the people and God.
Jesus is the bridge, but the Pope is the VISIBLE bridge.
Cathedrals.
People worshipped God back then. They build beautiful bldgs in His honor.
Nothing wrong with this.
People gave money to the church. If you're thinking of indulgences...I agree that it was wrong and one of the major reasons for the reformation.
The priesthood. It's good to have a priest.
It's known as Apostolic succession.
I believe that it's a correct teaching.
The OFFICE of the Apostles is still alive in Bishops.
The NT spoke of Bishops and Deacons.
Halloween is a Christian holiday?
I don't think so - in any country.
It wasn't even celebrated here in Vatican country until about 20 yrs ago when Italians wanted to imitate Americans.
Christmas. OK. The church gave a different reason to celebrate what was a pagan holiday.
They replaced it with the birth of Jesus.
I don't have a particular problem with this.
It doesn't make Christmas be a pagan holiday...it just replaced it.
Mother of God....
if it's rejected, it creates a real problem with calling Jesus GOD.
I hope you don't mean Constantine.
You're too smart.
Know nothing about a Babylonian mystery. If it's in Revelation, that'll be why. Never studied it.
The head of the new chruch of Rome? Francis! JK.
Guess I covered it all.
Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
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Okay, thanks, GG.
You are not alone in thinking that.
Knowingly or otherwise, many draw their views on Scripture directly from him. Others, independent as they may be, believe along the very same lines as he did.
Ah, early Christian fathers and commentaries. Yes, there's a lot out there, good and bad. And yes, people make their own decisions about what they do and do not believe, certainly.
And Arminius took his ideas from Pelagius, who was a contemporary of Augustine.
God can use anyone, believer or otherwise, to accomplish His purposes. Many great Christians were formerly heinous sinners. Paul was one. Not to compare Augustine or Calvin with Paul, though, at least in the sense that nothing Augustine or Calvin wrote was inspired by God...
Well, then that would call into question whether any of the other "early fathers" were actually Christians. It matters not; predestination is unquestionably mentioned/taught in God's Word, specifically by Paul in his letters to the Romans and the Ephesians and by Peter in his first epistle. Since God certainly predestines, we, as Christians, have to believe in it... somehow... right? Regardless of who did or did not, or does or does not, believe in it, we... kind of have to at least grapple with it.
Okay, yes, by elimination, or by exclusion ~ by not choosing some for heaven ~ He effectively consigns the rest to hell. However, God sets the standard, and we all ~ all ~ deserve hell. But there is such a thing as grace, God's grace, GodsGrace... [see what I did there? :)] ...which He gives to those whom He chooses, which is His right as Creator.
Paul, though, in Romans 1, says that since "what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them" and they "exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator," God "gave them up to dishonorable passions," which, GodsGrace, is to say that He lets them have what they want. So in that sense, by denying God, they bring condemnation on themselves.
Whether he did or did not makes no difference. What's true is true. God determines that, not Augustine. Or me, or you, or anyone else, past, present, or future.
Okay, to each his own, certainly. But it's not about Augustine. Or anyone else, other than God.
Thank you. But it's not about Calvin either.
As I said, God can use anyone to accomplish His purposes.
Sure. No matter.
Well, to Christians of all times from his forward.
Yes, the Catholic Church has its problems, certainly. Churches of all kinds unfortunately discard clear Biblical doctrines.
Sure. Unfortunate, in most cases, but no real matter, except for the Catholic Church. Beyond that, though, as I said, it's not really about Augustine or Calvin. See above.
No way to know. But again, no real matter, in the sense that Scripture is Scripture... God's Word is God's Word... whether any one person "hangs on to it" or not.
Grace and peace to you.
In your opinion. And I have no problem with you saying that what I am saying is my opinion. All good, right? :)
And I would say the exact same thing to you, EG.
When in that same verse he says, preceding "all of Israel," Jewish and Gentile believers? Hmmm...
it should be clear that the olive tree metaphor that Paul uses for Israel is multilayered. From one perspective, the tree consists of Jews according to the flesh, including natural Jewish branches. From another perspective, the tree that is Israel represents the entire believing community regardless of ethnicity. Natural Jewish branches can be broken off from the tree and wild Gentile branches can be grafted in so that Gentiles become part of the people of God that can rightly and collectively be designated as Israel. Notice that the Gentiles do not replace the Jews in God's plan, and the church does not replace Israel. Instead, Israel is both expanded to include Gentile Christians and narrowed to refer, in the final analysis, to the children of the promise alone. The Lord's true Israel is the invisible church that is made up of faithful Jews and Gentiles. As Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16, "But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God."
Well, right, not to be arrogant toward Jewish people, who could still be regrafted in.
Absolutely. But again, God's true Israel is far greater than you suppose, and the Covenant is greater than you suppose. I'm sure you will be somewhat... taken aback, I guess... at my saying that. But as Paul says, "'through Isaac shall (Abraham's) offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." If you are a Gentile believer as I am (you are), you are a child of the promise as I am (you are), and we are thus true Jews and part of God's Israel, which will someday be complete and will consist of an innumerable multitude (as the stars of heaven, the grains of sand on the seashore), people hailing from every tongue, tribe, and nation. And we shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5), not some small sliver of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. This is greater Isreal, the Israel of God, which will include the lesser (ethnic, mostly) Israel of the Old Testament... Just as Jesus is the greater David, our true and forever King.
Grace and peace to you.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
Your interpretation of Romans 9 is contradictory. God clearly says that He hated Esau (not his future offspring) as you're trying to suggest. The passage has nothing to do with Jews and Gentiles, there is no mention of that nonsense. It's all about God's sovereign election to salvation.
Romans 9:10-13 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
What don't you understand about the simple truth of what God is saying. "that the purpose of Go, according to election might stand" NOT OF WORKS!!! but ELECTION.....
We know that God saved many Edomites, because He always saves a remnant from every tribe and tongue. It seems that you just can't stand Gods Word as it is, so you always have to twist it to conform to your unbiblical narrative. how do you explain God hating untold millions of unborn babies and killing them with the flood. Do you think that we're dealing with a different God now???....
God said He never changes, He is the same as He always has been. He hates sinners just as much today, as He ever did. I know this truth about God, exposes your version of the gospel, which is not a gospel at all. I won't describe you as an Arminian, because they stand by their version of the gospel. But you don't stand for any known gospel interpretation.
You just cherry pick the Bible, ignoring and trashing those things God said which expose you and you take those things Gods said to His elect and apply them to yourself.
The context was absolutely about God hating Esau while he was in his mothers womb, why didn't God say that He hates all Edomites? answer: because He didn't hate all Edomites He hated Esau as an individual unborn baby. In any case, what right do you have to dictate who God can love and whom he can love.
You can worship your single attribute god, but I despise a god who loves child raping murderers. Your god loves the most sick and evil scum, on the planet and it sounds like you do too. The God of the Bible hates evildoers and loves those who have been washed clean by the blood of Jesus.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I left right after to go to my mens bible study, Spoke on the flood tonight, Thanks for answering. It is a little after 9p here now. So i am sure your out..lol
yes, But what are we eating?And how often did Jesus tell them to eat in John 6
Che church was huge in Pauls day, Peter led 3000 to christ at one time Yet they had meals when they met. But also remember, they met in homes, not in cathedrals.
Yes, But I am talking about John 6, Did Jesus say this in John 6. Is it the same bread and cup? I am going to say no. Thats what I am hoping you will see also.
But again, This is not the bread in john 6, Jesus said whoever eats this bread will live forever. Yet the catholics and other Protestants take this Eucharist over and over, and no one is assured they ill live forever. Why is this?
then again, Why does it not give the giver what Jesus promised
Read john 6
they will never hunger, never thirst, they will live forever. They will be raised on the last day. They will (unlike the fathers who ate manna and died) never die and again live forever.
Jesus said the food he came to give would endure to eternal life. In this sense, You eat one, just like in John 4, where he told the woman at the well. If you asked he would give living water flowing to eternal life, which you can drink and never thirst. So why is the Eucharist different? Why does it not promise a single thing Jesus promised?
It is a pagan symbol which was worn by the Caesar’s of rome, who were the pagan high priest of the Roman Empire.
Is he though?
Who does the Bible say the mediator is between God and man?
They did not worship in buildings, they met in homes local house churches.
All that money spent on a building that is not required..
plus as i said, all of the pagan temples when Constantine made christianity the official religion of rome, because christian cathedrals.
All of the acts of penance, the rosary and everything involved, where is this found in scripture. Penance was a pagan term, not a christian
The bible says we are all kings and priests. He gave the gifts of pastors and teachers. The last priest was the mosaic priests. There were no NT priests.
Thats what they call it..
yes, But this does not mean the catholic bishops are true bishops.
I don;t either, but you asked what was pagan, All of the different things about Christmas was in essence pagan. Even the child son relationship was a pagan theology between the mother and child. And easily converted to Roman christianity
I disagree,
No it does not
Mary Gave jesus his humanity, Jesus was always God. Mary gave birth to the body that Jesus entered when he left heaven.
Again, it is a pagan theology.
The one and only
Yes, Maybe a few more questions I brought up. Hope you slept well
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Good day sir.
I believe God keeps his promises, You evidently think he partially keeps his promises.
I believe God is a God of love
You believe God is only partially a God of love
We have no root to our foundations that we can even begin to agree on, so I think it is time to move on.
Grace and peace to you
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
God is not "Bipolar", He doesn't love a person one day and cast him into the lake of fire the next day. You make God out to be an evil psychopath who tortures people He loves. You make Him out to be worse than Satan, at least we know Satan is an enemy who wants to harm us, but there's nothing worse than a backstabber who tells you they love you then, turn around and show their true evil nature.
Your theology is completely incoherent and totally messed up, at least Jacob Arminius was consistent in his heretical theology. Your theology is always contradictory so you have to keep adding more lies all the time to make it float. Your self delusion is evident by the fact that you trash 2000 years of Church history and claim that all the Church fathers got it wrong and only your interpretation is biblically correct. That is the height of ignorance, in my view.
The fact that you came to the conclusion that God casts those He loves into the lake of fire to be tormented day and night for ever and ever, show how far you are from the truth. God would never do that to those He loves. He created hell for those He hates.
You still don't know what the word "Theology" means, why don't you go away and find out what it means. I would love to hear your interpretation of the word.
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Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
Who are you to question anything God does. Incase you don't know who you are, allow me to fill you in. You were born dead and totally depraved in trespasses and sin. You were born into slavery to sin and Satan, as Satan's slave you have no power against Him, He is infinitely stronger and smarter than you, so you're at His mercy and we know He has no mercy.
Your best works are as stinking rags in Gods sight, you were born hating God and loving sin. If God leaves you in your natural state, you will most certainly be cast into the lake of fire. Everyone has been born into that same state, God said "You can do nothing without me", in other words a dead man can do nothing. You were not born half dead, so you have nothing to offer God for Him to save you. All you can offer is your filthy rags.
Your free will allows you to serve your Master Satan, and your lust. It doesn't allow you to receive spiritual things, the things of God are foolishness to the natural man. He can never receive them, unless God regenerates him first. So salvation ahs nothing to do with man and everything to do with God.
Here are those few verses you requested, they testify to your ignorance of Gods Word.
Ephesians 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
If you deny that these verses clearly demonstrate that God chose His elect for salvation before He made the world, then you're doing what Satan did by asking Eve "hath God said" you would be denying Gods Word.
Do you wish to discuss reformed theology, or are you just going to tell me I'm wrong?
Why do you understand God's Word differently than all the rest of Christianity?
Maybe reformed theology is wrong??
Give me a verse that states that God chooses who will be saved.
Otherwise this is all just cheap talk.
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