Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Ritajanice]

in case anyone thinks I am being rude.

Here are what we have discussed in many thread.

We are born again of imperishable seed. the winds blow and we do not know where it comes from. so is being born of the spirit.

You have left out how we are Born Of The Spirit.

WHen nocodemus asked how these things can be, (who does it happen) Jesus answered.

As moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted. that whoever believes will not perish but has eternal life, For God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believed will never perish, but has eternal life (new birth)

That is not how Jesus told Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit you left that part out....then by your own understanding explains how you believe we are Born Again...you twist Gods word to say what you want it to say.

for he was not sent (this time) to judge the world. but that the world might be saved.

whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

the part that is born again, is (whoever)

In ephesians, paul agrees with Jesus.

eph 2: And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast

Again, Who is born again? YOU (me) and anyone else who is born again,

Who walked according to the world? YOU - (I or me, or anyone else that has been born again)

WE Were dead in tresspassed and sin

He made US alive

Ha made US to sit in heavenly places

iT IS BY grace WE have been saved through faith. again US. ME, I, YOU, Everyone who is born again

its not some magic thing inside us. She keeps asking what inside us gets born again,m What kind of question is this. And because i quote Jesus and Paul. I am in error and I am not answering her question.

She will not admit this, if she does praise God. But I want people to know I am not just being a jerk. I have my reasons for calling what she does childish, it gets old

Our spirit is Born Again....not our ME is Born Again....no wonder your posts are so confusing...you have twisted Gods word to fit it in with your own understanding.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have left out how we are Born Of The Spirit.

No, I did not. We were born of the spirit the way God said,, I am not explaining how. I am explaing when and through what means..

That is not how Jesus told Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit you left that part out....then by your own understanding explains how you believe we are Born Again...you twist Gods word to say what you want it to say.

whatever. Please go away..

Our spirit is Born Again....not our ME is Born Again....no wonder your posts are so confusing...you have twisted Gods word to fit it in with your own understanding.

Jesus said I must be born again.

My spirit is me Rita. I do not know why you do not understand this, But it is me, Jesus did not say my spirit must be born again, he said I must be born again.

Please go away.. You are causing me to sin

 

[Ritajanice]

This is exactly how I was Born Of The Spirit as the spirit was indwelling my spirit he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...by divine revelation delivered straight to our spirit via Gods Spirit.

John 3

New International Version

​

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus​

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is exactly how I was Born Of The Spirit as the spirit was indwelling my spirit he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...by divine revelation delivered straight to our spirit via Gods Spirit.

John 3​

​

New International Version​

​

​

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus​

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit

Now tell us what Jesus said about WHEN this will happen.

 

[PinSeeker]

Typical reformed thinker.

LOL! Yeah, I'll own that. :)

Verse 1: God is not rejecting Israel....His people, the people to whom He revealed Himself. Paul himself is of the tribe of Benjamin...a real Israeslite.

Verse 2 - 4: God still had 7,000 who didn't quit. He had a remnant. There will always be a remnant, as even today....those who will be loyal to the finish.

Verse 5: The remnant is holding on tight....because they're convinced of God's grace in choosing them FOR A PURPOSE.
It's always through grace and not the works OF THE LAW.

So to you too I say, who is God's Israel, GG? Who makes up the Israel of God? And where... :) ...is the land of (Greater, so, true) Israel? :)

Maybe you should just plainly read the NT with an open mind and not by listening to the teachings OF A MAN...
John Calvin.

Hmmm, okay, well, by the same token, maybe you should just plainly read the NT with an open mind and not by listening to the teachings OF A MAN... Jacobus Arminius.

And you know, even John Calvin said himself the following:

"Augustine is so much at one with me that, if I wished to write a confession of my faith, it would abundantly satisfy me to quote wholesale from his writings."​

In John Calvin's master work Institutes of the Christian Religion, one of every four pages contains a direct quote of Augustine, who lived centuries before there was any such thing as a Reformation. The Reformation came to be a thing when Martin Luther posted his ninety-five theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenburg, Germany in 1517... in rejection of doctrines held by the Catholic church.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ritajanice]

No, I did not. We were born of the spirit the way God said,, I am not explaining how. I am explaing when and through what means..

I was Born Again exactly as Jesus explains to Nicodemus here....then you add the rest of that scripture trying to twist how Jesus has already told Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit.

whatever. Please go away..

Jesus said I must be born again.

My spirit is me Rita. I do not know why you do not understand this, But it is me, Jesus did not say my spirit must be born again, he said I must be born again.

Please go away.. You are causing me to sin

My spirit in me has been Born Again....my spirit ...not me....me is not my spirit.....my spirit is a spirit child of God...just as God is a Spirit...me does not communicate with God....I communicate with God in my spirit not me!...me is flesh and bones.....my spirit is in the Spirit of Christ....Born Again....Spirit gives birth to spirit.... my spirit is Born Again.....

 

[Ritajanice]

Now tell us what Jesus said about WHEN this will happen.

No...nothing more needs to be added..that’s exactly how I was Born Of The Spirit having never read a Bible.....Jesus explains it to Nicodemus perfectly.

You added your own spin to that scripture to say what you want it to say....that’s how you think/ believe you become Born Of The Spirit....so don’t push your belief onto me...cause it ain’t happening...I know exactly how I became Born Again..by divine revelation....exactly as Jesus explains to Nicodemus and by the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children/ Born Again of imperishable seed...that Living seed the Holy Spirit indwells my spirit never ever to leave....Spirit gives birth to spirit....spirit children.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No...nothing more needs to be added..that’s exactly how I was Born Of The Spirit having never read a Bible.....Jesus explains it to Nicodemus perfectly.

You added your own spin to that scripture to say what you want it to say....that’s how you think/ believe you become Born Of The Spirit....so don’t push your belief onto me...cause it ain’t happening...I know exactly how I became Born Again..by divine revelation....

I rest my case.

Good day..

 

[GodsGrace]

Show me where I said that?

Who makes our spirit Born Again you or God?

Let’s start with that one question for now.

I’ve already posted you scripture..we are Born Again of imperishable seed.

Did you do that or did God do that divine Living act?

Theology and 1,500 AD...has got nothing to do with being Born Of The Spirit...zilch/ nada.

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever....where does that seed liveth and abideth forever @GodsGrace ?

Who brought your spirit from death to life?

You?

Hmmm.
Could it be that I misunderstood you?

I'll be reading along.

As to the rest.....
I don't reply to rants....
If you care to post scripture....I just might respond (not sure).

 

[PinSeeker]

This is wrong

So you think; I get that loud and clear. :)

In romans 11. There was a remnant (Those of Isreal who were saved) which means there was lost Israel as well

then there were Gentiles who believed (non jew

Yes, and together they make up all of God's Israel... as Paul says in Romans 11:26.

Israel was called the natural branch, Gentiles are called the unnatural branch.

Right, but the Gentiles are grafted in, which is to make natural from what was unnatural.

the whole chapter has seperated saved jew from saved gentile.

Well, the distinction is cited, but then resolved. Paul says this in all his letters in many different ways; there is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile believers, they ~ we ~ are all one in Christ Jesus.

And the warning it to save gentiles not to boast or think they have it all. Because there will be a time when ALL Israel (natural Israel) is saved..

Agreed.

God is not done with Israel.

Agreed. See above. He is still building it, even today, as in Ephesians 2:11-22. See below.

Thats Pauls argument in romans 11 which he started in chapter 9 .

As posted above, I point out again what this same Paul says in Ephesians 2:11-22, again, speaking to Gentiles:

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision' by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands ~ remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, Who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit."​

You know, there's no need to keep going back and forth over the same ground. Grace and peace to you, EG.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hmmm.
Could it be that I misunderstood you?

I'll be reading along.

As to the rest.....
I don't reply to rants....
If you care to post scripture....I just might respond (not sure).

Already posted scripture......

Who made your spirit Born Again...is not ranting.

 

[GodsGrace]

Most of them did, Arminius was nt much better. sadly alot of people left the catholic church, but brought some of her heresy's with them, and many made up new heresies..

I'd need to know the difference between a heresy and incorrect doctrine.

The CC saved Christianity from MANY heresies, so I don't know what you mean that those of the reformation took some Catholic heresies with them.

Do you mean predestination?

 

[Ritajanice]

A Born Again has also been grafted into the true vine.....that true vine is Jesus.....we also kept by the power that is within us...that being the Spirit of God...we house his Spirit ....His Spirit indwells our spirit....our spirit is what has been Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.

Liveth and abideth forever in our spirit never ever to leave.....by divine revelation.

◄ 1 Peter 1 ►

King James Bible Par ▾ Greetings from Peter (2 Peter 1:1-2) 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. A Living Hope 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. A Call to Be Holy (Hebrews 12:14-17) 13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. The Word of the Lord Stands Forever (Isaiah 40:6-8) 22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[GodsGrace]

in case anyone thinks I am being rude.

Here are what we have discussed in many thread.

We are born again of imperishable seed. the winds blow and we do not know where it comes from. so is being born of the spirit.

WHen nocodemus asked how these things can be, (who does it happen) Jesus answered.

As moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted. that whoever believes will not perish but has eternal life, For God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believed will never perish, but has eternal life (new birth)

for he was not sent (this time) to judge the world. but that the world might be saved.

whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

the part that is born again, is (whoever)

In ephesians, paul agrees with Jesus.

eph 2: And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast

Again, Who is born again? YOU (me) and anyone else who is born again,

Who walked according to the world? YOU - (I or me, or anyone else that has been born again)

WE Were dead in tresspassed and sin

He made US alive

Ha made US to sit in heavenly places

iT IS BY grace WE have been saved through faith. again US. ME, I, YOU, Everyone who is born again

its not some magic thing inside us. She keeps asking what inside us gets born again,m What kind of question is this. And because i quote Jesus and Paul. I am in error and I am not answering her question.

She will not admit this, if she does praise God. But I want people to know I am not just being a jerk. I have my reasons for calling what she does childish, it gets old

It's a mystery to me why anyone posts t persons that say weird things.
I must be getting old because I can hardly stand it anymore.
Sometimes I feel like Christianity is going to have a bad end with all these weird ideas floating around.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is wrong

In romans 11. There was a remnant (Those of Isreal who were saved) which means there was lost Israel as well

then there were Gentiles who believed (non jew

Israel was called the natural branch, Gentiles are called the unnatural branch.

the whole chapter has seperated saved jew from saved gentile..

And the warning it to save gentiles not to boast or think they have it all. Because there will be a time when ALL Israel (natural Israel) is saved..

God is not done with Israel. Thats Pauls argument in romans 11 which he started in chapter 9 .

In Romans 9 the NT actually states that God was using the Gentiles to cause envy to the Jews.
I can't get into this right now....
Romans 11:11

 

[GodsGrace]

LOL! Yeah, I'll own that. :)

Cute!

So to you too I say, who is God's Israel, GG? Who makes up the Israel of God? And where... :) ...is the land of (Greater, so, true) Israel? :)

The above is of no interest to me PS.
People seem to get stuck on very particular teachings.
The reason I don't care for the reformed faith is because it changes the nature of God.

Hmmm, okay, well, by the same token, maybe you should just plainly read the NT with an open mind and not by listening to the teachings OF A MAN... Jacobus Arminius.

Who's Jacob Arminius?
Never read him....
Don't know what he believed...
I read the NT and the ECFs up to 325 AD.

Maybe a commentary on a rare occassion.
That's it.

And you know, even John Calvin said himself the following:

"Augustine is so much at one with me that, if I wished to write a confession of my faith, it would abundantly satisfy me to quote wholesale from his writings."​

I know Calvin took his ideas from Augustine.
Did you know that Augustine was a gnostic manachian for 10 years before entering the CC?

Did you know that he was THE ONLY early father (although too late for my tastes) to believe in predestinaton?
It wasn't double predestination --- but, let's be honest here, --- what's the difference?
If God chooses some for heaven
It means he chooses the rest for hell.
Same difference as to double predestination.

Also Augustine changed his mind about free will, so I don't know how you can trust someone like that.
I certainly don't.

In John Calvin's master work Institutes of the Christian Religion, one of every four pages contains a direct quote of Augustine, who lived centuries before there was any such thing as a Reformation. The Reformation came to be a thing when Martin Luther posted his ninety-five theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenburg, Germany in 1517... in rejection of doctrines held by the Catholic church.

Grace and peace to you.

Quite a masterpiece.
So much good stuff in it....
and so much that is incorrect and comes from the mind of Calvin himself.

And WHO IS HE that you should pay any attention to him?

I hope you know that the ECFs did not agree with Augustine about anything...
he was useful to the CC though....but the church has since denied that God predestines persons to salvation.

Even the CC, to which he belonged, has denied his teachings.
So what does Calvin hang on to if he were alive today?

NOTHING.

 

[GodsGrace]

Already posted scripture......

Who made your spirit Born Again...is not ranting.

When you're on ONE TRACK....
You never get off....
and that's all you can speak to....
that's ranting.

Whether if be of worldly paradigms or of God.
People will tire of it and stop listening to you.

 

[Ritajanice]

When you're on ONE TRACK....
You never get off....
and that's all you can speak to....
that's ranting.

Whether if be of worldly paradigms or of God.
People will tire of it and stop listening to you.

No.i don’t agree with any of your accusations.

Only interested in listening to the Spirit...not your ranting accusations.

I thrive on the Living Holy Spirit witnessing Gods truth to my heart/spirit...petty accusations are boring and manipulating of people’s emotions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you think; I get that loud and clear. :)

No, it is literally wrong. I can not make the bible say somethign it does not say like you are doing

Yes, and together they make up all of God's Israel... as Paul says in Romans 11:26.

No. This is not true.

Romans 11: 26 is when all of physical Israel on earth at the time repent and come to Jesus.

Right, but the Gentiles are grafted in, which is to make natural from what was unnatural.

They are still unnatural.

God was not warning jewish believers, he was warning gentile believers.

Well, the distinction is cited, but then resolved. Paul says this in all his letters in many different ways; there is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile believers, they ~ we ~ are all one in Christ Jesus.

yes as far as salvation goes

But God made a specific coveant with israel. he called them out during the tim eof abraham, and his gifts and calling are irrevocable. thats why he colled them (the nation) hated according to thegospel but beloved according to the election.

Agreed.


Agreed. See above. He is still building it, even today, as in Ephesians 2:11-22. See below.


As posted above, I point out again what this same Paul says in Ephesians 2:11-22, again, speaking to Gentiles:

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision' by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands ~ remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, Who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit."​

You know, there's no need to keep going back and forth over the same ground. Grace and peace to you, EG.

Grace and peace to you also.

God made a covenant between himself and Israel., that covenant still stands.. He did nto break it. He will keep it, and when the repent and he restors them, the whole world will know.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'd need to know the difference between a heresy and incorrect doctrine.

The CC saved Christianity from MANY heresies, so I don't know what you mean that those of the reformation took some Catholic heresies with them.

Do you mean predestination?

The CC by itself is a heretical church. They did not save anyone from heresy, they practice it.

Most of their doctrines and practices are founded in paganism.. Only given Christian names.