Does God love burning people in hell?

[MatthewG]

Some people believe that people died and went to heaven. But they went to Abraham’s bosom known as paradise; and it was a place for disembodied souls. There was a chasm, you see in the story and the rich man who was in the separated part from Abraham’s bosom, talks to those who are over in Paradise.

This was a picture of Hell - (not the place of fire) but the place of separation from God, both the faithful, and the faithless. It contained Paradise and the prison part within the realm of the dead with a separation between them, on top of being separated from God.


Why though? Why is it this way?

Because no one overcame the Law yet, or fulfilled it which would be fulfilled in Christ, and Christ had to go to paradise just like everyone else before being resurrected by God.

Then after Jesus would be the first person that came ascending to heaven taken seat near the Father until all enemies are done away with.

Sin kept people separated from God; until Jesus paid for it.

Then you have revelation, which if you click the link below can learn more on that.

 

[MatthewG]

Now today I believe people do not go to hell because of Jesus and his victory.


Hell is done away with. Lake of fire

 

[St. Joseph]

hello @St. Joseph do you wanna explain what you mean?

All I have is Jesus and his words to go off

Why didnt the rich man ask Lazarus for water himself?

 

[St. Joseph]

Hell is not a literal fire. You can not burn a spirit with a match. Hell is outer darkness. No darkness if a fire is burning. Hell will be a spiritual fire. And the scriptures do not elaborate.

 

[MatthewG]

Hey Joseph, I don’t understand the question. And I may not have a response for it. Anyway thank you for all who participated in this thread. I’m off to bed.

 

[Jack]

Is God who elected those who he would save, disregarding everyone else, and send them to be burning and screaming and literal flames?

Is he loving for doing so; ?


just to notice hell/ and lake of fire are two differing things.

No, but He is totally righteous in doing so.

 

[Jack]

Hell is not a literal fire.

Somebody should have told Jesus.

Luke 16
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

 

[St. Joseph]

Somebody should have told Jesus.

Luke 16
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

How are You going to strike match and burn a spirit. Hell is called outer darkness. A fire would really light up a room. Spiritual water is what the rich man was asking for. Jesus has the water that will make you never thirst again.
The virgins trimming their wicks arent literal either.

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite if you don’t believe Jesus went to hell just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, where did he go when he died on the cross and was buried? That would be my question, to understand your side of the story. I’m not gonna change just cause you suggest I need to, but I will hear you out on this question.

Where did Lazarus come from when Jesus called to him, "come forth"!
Where did Jesus come from when the tomb was opened and the stone rolled away?
Where was the Jairus' daughter when raised from the dead?
Where will you be when you are raised from the dead at the second coming? What does the scriptures say?
KJV Daniel 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Did you know the life we receive from Christ is age -during? That it isn't unconditional eternal life, but dependent on partaking of the tree of life? Also, we will be in the same position as the angels before creation of the earth, in that even their life was dependent on their continuing faithfulness and obedience, exemplified by the fact that Lucifer and one third of the angels were free to rebel. Ever wondered what will stop us from rebelling even in heaven?

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite, I love you as a brother in Christ but, when it comes to your theology I’ll have to say hey man, you believe what you do and that has nothing to do with me; or the faith I have between me and God.

I can’t try to change a mind that is already set.

And that is how you should be. Have your mind set.

Romans 15:4One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

If you aren't going to actually respond to what I'm saying, but rather change the subject as above, or relinquish discussions by saying, you can believe what you want... I'm not going to change... Demand I use scripture to defend my case but not applying the same requirement to yourself, then I see no further advantage in any more discussion. You need a love and passion for truth, be willing to obey and live by whatever truth God reveals, before you can learn anything new.

 

[Jack]

How are You going to strike match and burn a spirit. Hell is called outer darkness. A fire would really light up a room. Spiritual water is what the rich man was asking for. Jesus has the water that will make you never thirst again.
The virgins trimming their wicks arent literal either.

Why don't you ask Jesus. I was quoting Him.

 

[St. Joseph]

Why don't you ask Jesus. I was quoting Him.

Yes you did. But misinterpreted him

 

[Jack]

Yes you did. But misinterpreted him

I quoted Jesus. I didn't interpret anything.

 

[St. Joseph]

I quoted Jesus. I didn't interpret anythin

I quoted Jesus. I didn't interpret anything.

 

[MatthewG]

I’m uninterested in continuing communicating with you @Brakelite. It’s not because of anything you have said but the approach that is being taken.

There will be nothing from here. May God keep you.

Maybe I’m running off maybe I’m not such a great fighter.

But I do believe in all working out their own salvation with trembling and fear.

Thank you again for at least communicating, and no one here is the master over anyone else.

All have freedom to believe and are responsible for themselves.

Thank God your blood,or my blood is not on mine or your hands.

 

[PinSeeker]

Calvin was Just flawed-human being with theories like the rest of us. I am not so sure if he was right about anything.

LOL! Fair enough. <chuckles> Yes, I'm sure John Calvin was not perfect. But that has no bearing on whether he understood Scripture, at least for the most part, well.

Hey, you know, by saying "like the rest of us," you are admitting your own... imperfection... :) So how is it that you're so sure you're right about... well, maybe not everything, but at least the things we are talking about here? :)

"Verily verily I say to you today, you shall be with Me in paradise". Jesus did not go to paradise that day.

Hmmm, so you think He gave the thief crucified on His right false hope (at best), or lied to him (at worst)?

He didn't rise from the dead until 2 days later. He spoke to Mary and warned her not to touch Him because He was not yet ascended to His Father.

Well, actually, He told her not to cling to Him, which has a much different connotation than mere touch.

And I would suggest to you, Brakelite, that Jesus's telling Mary Magdalene that He had not yet ascended to the Father does not deny the fact that Jesus's spirit went to the presence of the Father at the moment of His death, but affirms that His bodily ascension after His resurrection had not yet occurred. And this would be consistent with what Jesus told the thief crucified on his right. Yes, the thief's body was dead and presumably buried, just as Jesus's was, but the spirit of that man was with Jesus's spirit in the Father's presence that very day. As you well know, I'm sure, Brakelite, Jesus, in His dying breath, offered up His spirit to the Father ~ "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit" (Luke 23:46); and, "He said, 'It is finished,' and He bowed His head and gave up His spirit" (John 19:30).

This also tells us how it will be for us as believers. At the moment our physical bodies die, our spirits will immediately go to be with the Lord. And then when we are physically resurrected, our spirits will be reunited with our bodies. Our resurrection will be just like His. But of course we will not ascend to heaven as He did, because on that great day, heaven and earth will finally be one. :)

Grace and peace to you!

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @PinSeeker,

I could be wrong on everything and have to tell God sorry, maybe. Idk it’s faith he is pleased anyway; and the spirit causes for us to what?

Love one another, @PinSeeker and with so many with different view and perspectives; I have to love and not let my flesh get the best of me, and understand that only God changes hearts and minds when a person allows him to work with them in their life.

That is the model of Christian life; dying to yourself and living by raising with Christ as God raised him from the dead by the spirit of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Some may suggest that “by doing the will of God” you must force your beliefs on someone.

That type of mentality is ignorant.

Here are some scriptures dealing with Gods will for people who wanna do Gods will.

Because of the new covenant established, God now works in the minds and hearts writing his law in them, by those who seek him out in faith and are his. (Jeremiah 31?)

@VictoryinJesus you may find this useful.

“To do Thy pleasure, my God, I have delighted, And Thy law [is] within my heart.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭40‬:‭8‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Psalms 40:8 To do Thy pleasure, my God, I have delighted, And Thy law [is] within my heart. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

To do Thy pleasure, my God, I have delighted, And Thy law [is] within my heart.

bible.com

The ability to have access and God to ask him to help to do his will is available.

“Teach me to do Thy good pleasure, For Thou [art] my God — Thy Spirit [is] good, Lead me into a land of uprightness.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭143‬:‭10‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Psalms 143:10 Teach me to do Thy good pleasure, For Thou [art] my God — Thy Spirit [is] good, Lead me into a land of uprightness. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

Teach me to do Thy good pleasure, For Thou [art] my God — Thy Spirit [is] good, Lead me into a land of uprightness.

bible.com

“‘Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6‬:‭10‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 6:10 ‘Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

‘Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

bible.com

Ever wanna be known to Jesus as brother, sister, or mother?

“for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭50‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 12:50 for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.’ | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.’

bible.com

Jesus Christ is the perfect example of someone who denied himself in allowing Gods will to be performed.

“Again, a second time, having gone away, he prayed, saying, ‘My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26‬:‭42‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 26:42 Again, a second time, having gone away, he prayed, saying, ‘My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;’ | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

Again, a second time, having gone away, he prayed, saying, ‘My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;’

bible.com

“‘I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.”

‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭30‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

John 5:30 ‘I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App

‘I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

bible.com

Submitting to doing Gods will leads to having spiritual knowledge.

“if any one may will to do His will, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God, or — I do speak from myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7‬:‭17‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

John 7:17 if any one may will to do His will, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God, or — I do speak from myself. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

if any one may will to do His will, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God, or — I do speak from myself.

bible.com

“and he not being persuaded, we were silent, saying, ‘The will of the Lord be done.’”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭21‬:‭14‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Acts 21:14 and he not being persuaded, we were silent, saying, ‘The will of the Lord be done.’ | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

and he not being persuaded, we were silent, saying, ‘The will of the Lord be done.’

bible.com

“and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God — the good, and acceptable, and perfect.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Romans 12:2 and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God — the good, and acceptable, and perfect. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God — the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

bible.com

It requires the heart to be towards the things of God, submitting to Gods will. It’s not always about pleasing people. Sorry.

“not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as servants of the Christ, doing the will of God out of soul,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6‬:‭6‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Ephesians 6:6 not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as servants of the Christ, doing the will of God out of soul | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as servants of the Christ, doing the will of God out of soul

bible.com

“make you perfect in every good work to do His will, doing in you that which is well-pleasing before Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom [is] the glory — to the ages of the ages! Amen.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Hebrews 13:21 make you perfect in every good work to do His will, doing in you that which is well-pleasing before Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom [is] the glory — to the ages of the ages! Amen. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download

make you perfect in every good work to do His will, doing in you that which is well-pleasing before Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom [is] the glory — to the ages of the ages! Amen.

bible.com

A daily rule to live by, in life.

“instead of your saying, ‘If the Lord may will, we shall live, and do this or that;’”
‭‭James‬ ‭4‬:‭15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

James 4:15 instead of your saying, ‘If the Lord may will, we shall live, and do this or that;’ | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

instead of your saying, ‘If the Lord may will, we shall live, and do this or that;’

bible.com

“and the world doth pass away, and the desire of it, and he who is doing the will of God, he doth remain — to the age.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

1 John 2:17 and the world doth pass away, and the desire of it, and he who is doing the will of God, he doth remain — to the age. | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

and the world doth pass away, and the desire of it, and he who is doing the will of God, he doth remain — to the age.

bible.com

 

[PinSeeker]

You're a very... interesting... person, Matthew.

Going to respond to this statement of yours: "only God changes hearts and minds when a person allows him to work with them in their life"

I agree that God changes hearts. As for the mind, though, I would say that it inevitably follows the heart. But I would disagree strongly that His purposing to change a person's heart depends on that person's allowing Him to do so. As Job finally acknowledged, no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:21), and as Paul said, the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable (Romans 11:29). And Paul is very clear in Philippians 1:6 that if God begins a good work in a person (gives him/her faith), He will ~ will, not "might" ~ bring it to completion at the day of Christ.​

Grace and peace to you.

 

[MatthewG]

If I say

Spoiler: Hid

f**k

you God I don’t want you to work in my life will he?

Amazing the free will of Israel to refuse unwillingly to accept the truth.

These are just some of the few things picked up along the way; like sticks along the trail, that can be thrown over to a pile and start a fire.


Many people limit God, it’s always been a two way street.

God was first touching down with his Word; a promise.

That if you believe in Him salvation from the wrath would be so. Even more so freedom from old ways of life that were hindering the spiritual ways.


Willingly to let God work on your heart, reach out to Him.

The street of him wanting us to desire him by reaching out speaking through the creation, and for us to reach out to him to help us.


Jesus did that.