Does God love burning people in hell?

[MatthewG]

Idk all I have the scripture that I believe about Jesus going to paradise as he promised the thief, and Jesus going to preach some message to those in prisons and I have no idea what he said to them, @QuantumBit. He was the only one to ever cross the chasm. As far as I can tell.

 

[PinSeeker]

Is God who elected those who he would save, disregarding everyone else...

I would surely disagree that he "disregarded everyone else." That brings up a great point, that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather not caring, and thus disregarding. I would absolutely disagree with the statement that God's having elected some means he disregarded others. Regarding those who are not members of His Elect, even God's pronouncement of eternal judgment upon a person and the subsequent placing of that person in a place of and under that eternal judgment ~ which is what will happen for all those on Jesus's proverbial left at the Final Judgment ~ is an act of love. That may be hard to fathom, but as a father, I can pronounce judgment upon my son (for a very limited time, of course, and in a much lesser sense) because of what he may have done, but that does not mean I do not love him, nor even does it mean that I do it in anything other than love.

and send them to be burning and screaming and literal flames?

This has been discussed, but we should disavow the idea of literally burning in literal fire. The "fire" is God's all-encompassing judgment devoid of His grace, compassion, and mercy. Likewise the idea of literal torture or tormenting; the utter hopelessness and anguish the person endures will be his torment through eternity, his "worm that will not die," as Jesus puts it in Mark 9 ~ not a literal worm, but what figuratively "eats away at him" and does not abate, forever and ever. Jesus Himself describes hell as a place of total darkness (Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30), which would denote at the least the absence of light, whereas light is actually produced by literal flames/fire.

Everyone is allowed to believe what they want, aren’t they?

Well, sure.

And aren’t we suppose to love the Calvinist?

LOL! Well, yes, I suppose... I am an unapologetic Calvinist; I believe John Calvin was right about Scripture. Are you saying you are a Calvinist, Matthew? Or not?

Hey Devin, you understand everyone in the old testament’s went to hell?

I hope not, because that surely is not the case. Have we not just been discussing Abraham? The Abraham of Genesis 13-17? The one who, as Moses writes in Genesis 15:6, believed God, and it was counted to him righteousness? And the one Jesus uses in His parable in Luke 16?

Even Jesus went to hell too, dying on the cross. Did you know that?

Hm. Well, Jesus said to the thief crucified on His right that he would be with Him that very day in paradise (Luke 23:43). What I would say, Matthew, is that Jesus did endure hell ~ being placed under the judgment of God ~ while on the cross.

Yes, Peter, in 1 Peter 3, says Jesus "went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison... in the days of Noah." We should understand this in the same light as what Peter says of us as Christians now, we who "live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God" (1 Peter 4:2), and even now preach "even to those who are dead..." so that "...they might live in the Spirit, the way God does." While believers are spiritually reborn in Christ, unbelievers are spiritually dead in their sins. But through our preaching ~ to the spirits in prison in the present day ~ the Holy Spirit may work in them and bring them, spiritually speaking, from death to life... in this life. We call this evangelism. This is along the same lines as what Paul says in Romans 10:14-17...

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!' But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?' So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

Grace and peace to you, Matthew.

 

[MatthewG]

No I’m not a Calvinist. Calvin was Just flawed-human being with theories like the rest of us. I am not so sure if he was right about anything. May God be with you too.

 

[Windmillcharge]

What do you want to really say?

Who are you trying to communicate with?
Please either use the quote or the reply function, then those who have replied to you will know you are talking to them.

What am I trying to say, simple.
You need to provide evidence to back up your accusations.

God has never murdered anyone. Basic biblical 101. As creator he gives life and ends life, it is his right to to so and in acting on that right he does not commit the legal crime of murder.

Does God enjoy punishing sinner? try using google or any biblical serach engine and you'll find verses that say that God takes no pleasur in punishing sinners.

Again prove your accusations.

 

[MatthewG]

The Lord Rejects Saul as King​

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lordsent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a]all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

 

[MatthewG]

Did a righteous God allow murder in the scripture above @Windmillcharge? Did he approve of the murder or killing of men, women’s and children?

 

[Windmillcharge]

The Lord Rejects Saul as King​

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lordsent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a]all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

What is your purpose in this post?
Are you replying to me or to someone else?
If you are please us the reply button in the bottom right corner.

 

[MatthewG]

Posting to post. Can answer if you want or not.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Did a righteous God allow murder in the scripture above @Windmillcharge? Did he approve of the murder or killing of men, women’s and children?

Chapter and verse please.

Remember murder is the unlawful killing of a person. You need to present your evidence for this charge.
Lawful killing as in a time of war is different. Ultimatly every death is at Gods decision, he grants life and he ends it.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for answering.

 

[Brakelite]

Here is the parable

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Earlier in Luke 16 there were other parables...
1 ¶ And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods...

And in the previous chapter there is...
11 ¶ And he said, A certain man had two sons:

I have never heard anyone attempt to claim the story of the prodigal son or the one above as a true story. Yet neither parable is illogical or unable to be lived out in real life. Yet Luke 16, which contains incidents totally contradictory to common logic (like the saved and lost being able to talk to one another, see one another, while the lost is in torment) is presented as literal. On the basis of 'certain'? Sorry, that is not conclusive enough to prove anything. There are many features of the Rich man and Lazarus that have powerful symbolic lessons...it isn't an explanation of the after-life. It's a lesson to the Pharisees on salvation, and like other parables reveals how difficult it is for anyone to rely on wealth, birth, privilege to be saved. It was also a rebuke to the Pharisees for not sharing the truths of their religion with the peoples around them. (The 'dogs'). Not even crumbs.

 

[MatthewG]

Hi @Brakelite it’s understood that you and me do not see in the same perception, and have differences of understanding and perception on what is being said.

Therefore to continue to go back and forth in this fashion is useless, as you have your own personal held thoughts and opinions just as I do.

You may believe however you would like, you can also claim that what I am saying is not lying up with scripture.

If anyone is interested in the lake of fire review, they should click the link in my signature.

But to continue to bicker, and fight over difference, is childish and foolishness, and I will say I could be wrong and maybe you are right, all I do know is that from my faith and what I believe.

Jesus went to Paradise and to Prison, according to what he said to the person on the cross, and what Peter writes about the Lord being in prison.

The Parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a display of hell, Jesus said so…by his description in the parable, (Hades) the realm of the dead which the Word of God went to, at least that is what I believe by the spirit anyway.

But maybe I am wrong; though I don’t believe so, freedom is important.

 

[Brakelite]

Idk all I have the scripture that I believe about Jesus going to paradise as he promised the thief, and Jesus going to preach some message to those in prisons and I have no idea what he said to them, @QuantumBit. He was the only one to ever cross the chasm. As far as I can tell.

You need to read those passages again, there is absolutely nothing about Jesus going to hell to speak to anyone. Unless you want it to and use it to bolster your preconceived ideas.
What Peter is talking about is the holy Spirit speaking to the contemporaries of Noah, through Noah a preacher of righteousness, calling them to repentance. Jesus did not give them a second chance, they had 120 of Noah's warning ringing in their ears, which they rejected and scoffed at. If they got a second chance, then God needs to apologize to everyone else.
And I know why you still haven't offered any scripture that supports the idea that God gives eternal life to sinners. And don't you dare suggest I am a member of a cherry squad standing by exalting in the fact that God must punish the unrepentant. No need to go there, just find me scriptures to support your theories. And your preterist worldview doesn't work either. The book of Revelation, written well after 70ad, speaks of the second coming of Jesus and a devastation of the planet, as do scriptures elsewhere.

 

[MatthewG]

@Brakelite if you don’t believe Jesus went to hell just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, where did he go when he died on the cross and was buried? That would be my question, to understand your side of the story. I’m not gonna change just cause you suggest I need to, but I will hear you out on this question.

 

[Brakelite]

Hi @Brakelite it’s understood that you and me do not see in the same perception, and have differences of understanding and perception on what is being said.

Therefore to continue to go back and forth in this fashion is useless, as you have your own personal held thoughts and opinions just as I do.

You may believe however you would like, you can also claim that what I am saying is not lying up with scripture.

If anyone is interested in the lake of fire review, they should click the link in my signature.

But to continue to bicker, and fight over difference, is childish and foolishness, and I will say I could be wrong and maybe you are right, all I do know is that from my faith and what I believe.

Jesus went to Paradise and to Prison, according to what he said to the person on the cross, and what Peter writes about the Lord being in prison.

The Parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a display of hell, Jesus said so…by his description in the parable, (Hades) the realm of the dead which the Word of God went to, at least that is what I believe by the spirit anyway.

But maybe I am wrong; though I don’t believe so, freedom is important.

"Verily verily I say to you today, you shall be with Me in paradise".
Jesus did not go to paradise that day. He didn't rise from the dead until 2 days later. He spoke to Mary and warned her not to touch Him because He was not yet ascended to His Father. And His Father lives in paradise. Check out and compare the following scriptures...
KJV Revelation 2:7
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
KJV Revelation 22:1-4
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 

[St. Joseph]

Age during destruction only last for a time @Brakelite many disregard, more archaic translations.

That verse is not as scary as you may think it is or believe that it is their destruction was age steering and who is on display in 70 A.D.

Everlasting is everlasting. Scarier than you think.

 

[St. Joseph]

You gonna tell me when Jesus refers to them in hades both groups are not inside the one place? One on a paradise side and one on a prison side separated because of faithful and faithless? That was the way the realm of the dead worked. Apparently they could commune with each other, as disembodied spirits.

That scripture proves they cannot converse

 

[MatthewG]

@Brakelite, I love you as a brother in Christ but, when it comes to your theology I’ll have to say hey man, you believe what you do and that has nothing to do with me; or the faith I have between me and God.

I can’t try to change a mind that is already set.

And that is how you should be. Have your mind set.

Romans 15:4One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

 

[MatthewG]

That scripture proves they cannot converse

hello @St. Joseph do you wanna explain what you mean?

All I have is Jesus and his words to go off.

 

[MatthewG]

here is the story again

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”