Do you believe this is...

[Taken]

Spirits ARE capable of being destroyed.

Spirits of whom “ARE capable of being destroyed” ?

 

[BlessedPeace]

At our physical death, the spirit "returns to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7) to deal with it as He wills. The spirit of humans and that of angels has an origination point from God Himself. But neither the spirit of humans nor of angels inherently possess an eternal character by themselves.

Only that which is covered by Christ's own inherent immortality has eternal life. Everything else not connected with Christ's inherent immortality will eventually die and utterly perish. "Who ONLY hath immortality" (1 Tim. 6:16) is an exclusively inherent quality that only Christ possesses. For those who are "IN CHRIST", that immortality will be shared with the children of faith who are elected. Eternal life with a deathless existence has also been granted to the righteous "elect angels" in heaven (Luke 20:36, Mark 12:25). But the non-elect of both human and celestial creatures are destined to utterly perish.

It's simple. The spirit returns to God who gave it. It is by definition immortal.

Why do we make things so ridiculously convoluted?

 

[face2face]

Of course, the Greek word for "angels" can be used for either a human messenger or a celestial messenger. Just one example is a reference to human "messsengers" (angelon) being sent to Christ from John, asking if He truly was the Messiah. (Luke 7:24). It depends on the context as to which meaning of human or celestial angels should be understood.

Wow that's a first - impressed!

But in the context of 1 Timothy 5:21, Paul solemnly charges Timothy by the highest witnesses he can call upon, saying, "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." In this case, Paul was referring to righteous, celestial angelic beings that dwelled with God and the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven to bring the weightiest import he could possibly call upon in his directive to Timothy.

All Angels are Elect - maybe you should consider what the word Elect means and how its used of the Saints?

And yes, these "ELECT ANGELS" are a very large group of angels in the heavens.

All of them!

Daniel 7's description of the throne of the Ancient of Days pictures God's attending angels as a huge quantity of "a thousand thousand ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand attended upon him...". Psalms 68:17 also gives a very large number of angels representing God's strength in battle. "The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place."

You have nothing in this discussion - nothing at all!

Both the celestial angelic creatures and terrestrial humanity were originally created righteous, but with the ability to make righteous or evil choices from the time they were created. It was a "probationary" test that both categories failed. Only those whom God has elected will be preserved in a righteous status, both angels and humans.

What is the source of enmity in an Angel?

Only in the case of humanity represented by the fallen Adam, God designed a program of redemption through Christ. In the case of the angels which "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation",

You quote this as if you know the context but you don't - thats the issue you are having.

Your knowledge is assumed.

Paul in 1 Timothy 3:6 also referred to the Devil being judged for the sin of pride which led to his fall. Timothy's selection of a minister was not to include those new to the faith - "not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil." Satan as the "anointed cherub" was originally "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created till iniquity was found in thee." (Ez. 28:15). That "iniquity" of the anointed cherub had developed through Satan's pride, leading to his condemnation.

We have already explained the cherub and how that relates to the King of Tyre.

You string passages together like daisy chains but they are all unrelated! It's messy work you do with the text.

This reply in no way shows the Elect Angels are a separate group!

F2F

 

[face2face]

I questioned your words…”divine nature”…?

A bit of an oxymoron.
Divine…relates to the Holiness of a SPIRIT entity.
Nature…relates to a Creation.

The Lord God Almighty IS the ONLY Holy “not Created” entity.

The Lord God Almighty “CREATED” divine holy entities, and established their “estate”, (heavens above manKinds estate, Earth, but below Gods “estate” heaven above the heavens, and established their identity…ie. “celestial beings”, called broadly “angels”.)

Created celestial beings (angels), AND Created terrestrial beings (manKind)…
EACH, have FREEWILL…
Ie. THE LIBERTY to Choose as they decide.

Celestial Beings…can REMAIN holy and WITH God….or not.

Terrestrial Beings….can BE “with” God, “leave” God, return and be “with” God, or Remain “without” God.

Terrestrial Beings….can MAKE a VOW of “commitment”, TO the Lord, to FOREVER Be “WITH” God.

Such a TRUE VOW, is examined by the Lord…
Should such VOW, BE, by the Lord FOUND, DISCOVERED TO BE TRUE…
Then SHALL the Lord perform WORKS “with… IN “ that individual…TO KEEP that man, ASSURED…GUARANTEED…WITH God FOREVER!

Celestial (angel) beings…HAVE NO SUCH OFFERING!
They were were Created…’WITH’ God.
(Mankind wasn’t).

A Celestial (angel’s) Freewill OPTION …. Is to FOREVER Remain “WITH God”…OR “LEAVE God”….FOREVER…
ONCE they choose to LEAVE God, they have NO OPTION, NO CHOICE, to ever RETURN to God!

A celestial angel that which LIES TO or ABOUT God, has made his CHOICE to LEAVE God…
AND ?
God WHO IS Faithful and True…Keeps HIS WORD, and Separates Himself from the Created celestial angel, and the Created celestial angel from Himself….

By all indication…God has Created MILLIONS of celestial angels.
By all indications…Lucifer, WAS the First Created celestial angel.
By all indications…Lucifer, had great Beauty, had great Power, had great Talents, of song, of music, of persuasion….
and
By all indications…a great ego, of desire, of greed, of entitlement to Rule “OVER” His Creator, His Master and His Masters Creations.

And THUS…the True and Faithful Lord God Almighty…Separated, Sent, Banned Lucifer, FROM Lucifers “estate”….DOWN to Gods…
Created manKinds “Estate”…Earth.

Essentially, ALLOWING Lucifer (with a New. Name, Satan, and a New description, Liar, Murderer, Deceiver, Serpent, Devil)… to Occupy, mingle, influence, Gods manKIND of creations “IN” manKINDS estate, EARTH.

God, ALLOWING, Lucifer / Satan, to Occupy Earth…DID NOT PREVENT Gods OWN PLAN for He Himself, to ALSO “influence” His OWN created manKind of Terrestrial Beings, IN the Order, Way, Manner, God Himself had Already ESTABLISHED…AND BIT BY BIT, REVEALED TO manKIND.

My Comment regarding…”your words”…”DIVINE nature”, was SPOT ON.

The ONLY Divine (ie. holy) nature (ie.Created) entities are “angels”.

When they “choose” to “stand Against God”…by default, they LOSE their “divine holiness”.

Created humans, are natural Creations. They are NOT DIVINE, NOT holy.
They CAN freely Choose, to become made “perfected”…….”IN” Christ…..occupy HIS risen Holy Body…
AND “promised” to be RISEN UP IN their OWN ANEW, holy, divine, glorified body.

No HUMAN HAS YET, been RISEN UP IN their OWN ANEW, holy, divine, glorified body.

Many (yet a FEW by comparison to ALL of manKIND that has EVER been naturally born)….HAVE Expressly Received the
NON-REVOKABLE PROMISE of God, by and through Christ the Lord God….
THEY SHALL BE RISEN UP IN the holy, divine, glorified body, according to Gods PROMISE.

Glory to God,
Taken

What a mess Taken

Divine nature is not flesh and blood but it can take on the appearance of flesh nature however its Spirit - we both know that much!

The point is of course is this Spirit Nature cannot sin - impossible otherwise you have an eternal sinner and you make God sin!

F2F

 

[Taken]

What a mess Taken

So you claim…

Divine nature is not flesh and blood

So? I never said that….yet that is your response for the basis of your claim…
LOL

[QUOOTE] but it can take on the appearance of flesh nature however its Spirit - we both know that much! [/QUOTE]

Then you continue speaking for you AND ME…”to your MESS claim”…

] The point is of course is this Spirit Nature cannot sin - impossible otherwise you have an eternal sinner and you make God sin!

F2F

The “POINT” of course is you have identified nothing I said was not true.

 

[The Learner]

as I remember, satan had to get permission in Job

 

[face2face]

as I remember, satan had to get permission in Job

Yes the adversary had no power whatsoever.
Scary being that one lol

 

[One 2 question]

Yes the adversary had no power whatsoever.
Scary being that one lol

I have felt sorry for him. For Satan to have an Opponent who will always be superior to him. To think that he must seek his Creator's permission to do things.

I saw that Satan's role as God's adversary is the worst role possible, causing him constant frustration. It came to the point where I felt very sorry for Satan that I asked God to have mercy on him. That God would feel sorry for him and bring him to the point of repentance thus bringing his rebellion to an end.

 

[face2face]

I have felt sorry for him. For Satan to have an Opponent who will always be superior to him. To think that he must seek his Creator's permission to do things.

I saw that Satan's role as God's adversary is the worst role possible, causing him constant frustration. It came to the point where I felt very sorry for Satan that I asked God to have mercy on him. That God would feel sorry for him and bring him to the point of repentance thus bringing his rebellion to an end.

There is no such being! Only One True God and beside Him there is none other.

Go away and learn what this means.

F2F

 

[One 2 question]

There is no such being! Only One True God and beside Him there is none other.

Go away and learn what this means.

F2F

I'm not sure who or what you're refering to. Can you clarify please.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I have felt sorry for him. For Satan to have an Opponent who will always be superior to him. To think that he must seek his Creator's permission to do things.

I saw that Satan's role as God's adversary is the worst role possible, causing him constant frustration. It came to the point where I felt very sorry for Satan that I asked God to have mercy on him. That God would feel sorry for him and bring him to the point of repentance thus bringing his rebellion to an end.

The Rolling Stones beat you to that concept.

It's wacko, but many things are.

 

[One 2 question]

The Rolling Stones beat you to that concept.

It's wacko, but many things are.

The strange thing is, it's going to happen. And that's something that excites me.

I guess that could've been the response to the wacko who said that salvation would come through faith in God and His grace alone. That God would cut off His chosen people and graft in Gentiles so that salvation could extend to non Jews, the Gentiles and barbarians.

But that could never happen according to what that wacko believed and preached. Surely God wouldn't go that far and stoop that low to open up the way for sinners to be redeemed and reconciled to Himself. God forbid! Those unclean Gentiles are so undeserving of God's mercy, grace, love, forgiveness, compassion. They are beyond redemption.

I'm so glad these critics were wrong, and Paul was right. And I'm glad you are not right in the case of God's redemption of Satan.

 

[face2face]

I'm so glad these critics were wrong, and Paul was right. And I'm glad you are not right in the case of God's redemption of Satan.

If your satan has God's Divine Nature how can he be redeemed?

 

[face2face]

as I remember, satan had to get permission in Job

The issue is the Bible just doesnt hold such an evil powerful being - only in the imaginations of weak minded Christians does it exist.

Imagine the relisation when/if they discover it was all lies and the true battle was totally unknown to them.

Wow, the weeping in that day!

F2F

 

[One 2 question]

If your satan has God's Divine Nature how can he be redeemed?

Satan's Creator reconciles him in eternity. Bringing him back to Himself. In fact his God elevates Satan, placing him on a throne to His left. This has been one of the greatest revelations I have received from God's Spirit.

What a God we serve. His loving kindness blows me away. I can say that it is a massive blessing to be able to love my enemies, especially the devil.

 

[Scott Downey]

Okay, so getting back to the OP you don't believe those two texts?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Basically you understanding is a contradiction of what is taught about the angels and God Will in Heaven.

F2F

Praise the Lord, you angels of his,

God has His angels, here the meaning is clear.
Angels of God are also called ELECT angels.

1 Timothy 5:21
I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

Devil also has his angels, the fallen angels. And they are cursed by God. Nothing good will happen to or for them.

Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Devil and his angels are evicted from heaven. They no longer have the right to access heaven, while still celestial beings, they were cast out from where God is to the earth. Heaven also has levels, fallen angels have access to the lower heavens as they are also called powers of the air.
Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Even though All things were created for God and by God and through God, their allegience was shown to be of Satan as they fell from heaven to earth at the word of God, they were cast down. They wanted to rule Heaven and Earth, and in the end inherit only the fire and destruction.

 

[Scott Downey]

Just like earthly kingdoms of men, kings have armies and are referred to as the king's men.
Devil has his angels.

Whose side are you on?

 

[Scott Downey]

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Angels are very powerful and the fallen angels seem to have been deceived by their great strength and abilities.
Devil is a great orator, he speaks great swelling words against God, for some reason some of the angels listened to the devil, and believed whatever he was saying. Angels left their own estate, habitation given to them by God, they came to the earth on their own, following the devil's desires, to rule the earth and challenge the plans of God for His Christ to save fallen sinful mankind. They were tempted and willfully chose to do what God had forbidden for them. Perhaps they disapproved of the higher management of the kingdom of God He had ordained in the heavens.

Devil wanted all of heaven and earth to rebel against the rule and divine order God created, to fully oppose God. What crazy being would think this could be successful, but apparently devil was also deceiving his own self by his own great power, which had been given to hm by God. Devil has always desired his own worshippers and must have been jealous of God.


Elect angels are His servants and do His will willfully, and are not disobedient to the heavenly vision given to them by God.
They are of those who keep the word of God. And are also our fellow servants.

6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the [b]holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8 Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [e]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

 

[One 2 question]

They wanted to rule Heaven and Earth, and in the end inherit only the fire and destruction.

Could I say that I once stopped there too in my thinking or understanding of Satan and his angels eternal never ending state. It was only because that's where Jesus and other contributors of the bible stopped. Maybe it was because that's where God was up to in revealing the future. Daniel, Paul, John said they were not able to say certain things, things they saw of the future. Even Jesus had limited knowledge of what the future held.

But it would be foolish of me to think that all the information they had received regarding eternity is recorded in the bible.

Then there is all the knowledge that God has given to His church over the past 2,000 years, some having to do with the future, what is to come in eternity.

I will not push the pause button at the end of the book of revelations. And I would definatly not push the pause button for God hasn't finished telling His story. Actually, His story will never end.