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3 Resurrections

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Yet you fail to post it.

Here's why your theory doesn't work.
If the Prince of this world,the lord of this world,was destroyed then God is allowing all that is evil to continue unabated. And,being Satan et al are destroyed, that means they cannot be blamed for any of it today. Or for the millinea since 70 A.D.
Try responding to the single point I made about Satan's destruction from Romans 16:20 to begin with. I can certainly supply more. But I'm not about to dump a dissertation on you all at once. That wouldn't be fair, and nobody reading this can digest all of that proof at one time anyway.

God IS in His longsuffering allowing today's present evil committed by mankind to continue, but none of it is beyond His control. "He maketh the wrath of men to praise him. The remainder of wrath thou shalt restrain." Any evil that God has allowed to continue in this world since the Fall in Eden has never managed to upset God's ultimate plans for this planet. It has all been marching in stages over the millennia of fallen man's existence towards a final culmination point.

In the final judgment, God will completely purge this planet of any remnants of the human forces of evil. He has already taken care of the evil angelic forces by destroying them back in AD 70. The remaining wrath of mankind which has been under God's restraining control over the millennia will also be destroyed in the final judgment, leaving this planet without any corrupting influences inhabiting it from then onward. It has been and will be an incremental process leading to a final state of complete purification.
 

BlessedPeace

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Try responding to the single point I made about Satan's destruction from Romans 16:20 to begin with. I can certainly supply more. But I'm not about to dump a dissertation on you all at once. That wouldn't be fair, and nobody reading this can digest all of that proof at one time anyway.

God IS in His longsuffering allowing today's present evil committed by mankind to continue, but none of it is beyond His control. "He maketh the wrath of men to praise him. The remainder of wrath thou shalt restrain." Any evil that God has allowed to continue in this world since the Fall in Eden has never managed to upset God's ultimate plans for this planet. It has all been marching in stages over the millennia of fallen man's existence towards a final culmination point.

In the final judgment, God will completely purge this planet of any remnants of the human forces of evil. He has already taken care of the evil angelic forces by destroying them back in AD 70. The remaining wrath of mankind which has been under God's restraining control over the millennia will also be destroyed in the final judgment, leaving this planet without any corrupting influences inhabiting it from then onward. It has been and will be an incremental process leading to a final state of complete purification.
Great chapter. It reiterated the women who served as what today are labeled pastors.

Also, you need to read Tertius entire epistle of Romans 16 so to understand its context and so to realize your error regarding Satan's destruction.
 
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3 Resurrections

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Great chapter. It reiterated the women who served as what today are labeled pastors.
Yes, it does do that. As the ancient prophecy in Psalms 68:11related, "The Lord gave the word: the women that publish the tidings are a great host." This fits those women Paul listed in Romans 16, for certain.

Also, you need to read Tertius entire epistle of Romans 16 so to understand its context and so to realize your error regarding Satan's destruction.
The Romans 16:20 promise that God would crush Satan under the feet of the believers "shortly" was a duplicate of God's ancient promise to Eve. Even though the serpent would bruise the heel of her Seed, the Seed of the woman would end up crushing the serpent's head. God did the crushing, and the believers that were in Christ would "shortly" share in that victory of God over Satan in the first century.
 
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BlessedPeace

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Yes, it does do that. As the ancient prophecy in Psalms 68:11related, "The Lord gave the word: the women that publish the tidings are a great host." This fits those women Paul listed in Romans 16, for certain.


The Romans 16:20 promise that God would crush Satan under the feet of the believers "shortly" was a duplicate of God's ancient promise to Eve. Even though the serpent would bruise the heel of her Seed, the Seed of the woman would end up crushing the serpent's head. God did the crushing, and the believers that were in Christ would "shortly" share in that victory of God over Satan in the first century.
The 1st century victory was that of victory for The Elect over both the first and the second death.
The first death was spiritual death or separation from God due to Sin entering the world through one man, Adam and due to the serpents persuasion to disobey God.

The conquest of Satan's second domain,that second death of the fallen human, was achieved by Christ on the last altar as sacrifice for the sins of the people of this world who are the Elect of God.

Satan is still here.Because the fallen non-Elect are his.
 

3 Resurrections

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Satan is still here.Because the fallen non-Elect are his.
The human "children of the devil" (as Christ termed the Pharisees) can be present on earth without their "father" the devil still being in existence.

But you have the wrong definition of the "second death". Scripture calls the "second death" the Lake of Fire. These were the conditions in the city of Jerusalem when that city was being burned down in AD 70 for the second time since its first "death" under the Babylonian invasion in 586 BC.
 

face2face

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There is some really flawed logic proposed in the original post. This Psalms 103:20 verse never claims that ALL angels remained obedient.
Here is another

angels are ministering spirits who serve us for the sake of our salvation (Heb. 1:14)

Take care with the subject of Angels as the root word means messenger so care is required to work out if its speaking of human messengers or angelic.

It is only speaking a command to that particular group of angels who were preserved in faithfulness to God, directing these obedient, angelic mighty ones to bless the Lord. These obedient "ELECT angels" (1Tim. 5:21) are separate from those celestial beings who did NOT choose to "do His word, obeying the voice of His word" - the ones who "kept not their first estate" (Jude 6) and fell into iniquity by choice.

Can you show from 1 tim 5:21 this is referring to a group of Angels?

Your last point offered no evidence to Divine Angels being able to sin.

Maybe you havnt tested your knowledge on this subject?

F2F
 

face2face

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Jesus believed and even stated Satan fell from Heaven.



“Divine Nature”… ?

How do you define what “divine nature” means?


Isa. 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Luke 10:
[18] And he said Jesus speaking unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Glory to God,
Taken
That's odd Taken that you would take me to two passaged (unrelated) which offer nothing at all about divine nature.

Here, this is what you should have posted:

for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

Notice the difference between mortal nature (lusts, sin etc) compare to divine nature?

You have a problem because the emnity is in the flesh but if your divine natured angels can sin you have emnity in God.

F2F
 

BlessedPeace

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The human "children of the devil" (as Christ termed the Pharisees) can be present on earth without their "father" the devil still being in existence.

But you have the wrong definition of the "second death". Scripture calls the "second death" the Lake of Fire. These were the conditions in the city of Jerusalem when that city was being burned down in AD 70 for the second time since its first "death" under the Babylonian invasion in 586 BC.
 

Kabone

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This ‘satan is dead’ or ‘there’s no such thing as satan’ seems very Keyser Soze, ‘the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist’
 

3 Resurrections

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Take care with the subject of Angels as the root word means messenger so care is required to work out if its speaking of human messengers or angelic.
Of course, the Greek word for "angels" can be used for either a human messenger or a celestial messenger. Just one example is a reference to human "messsengers" (angelon) being sent to Christ from John, asking if He truly was the Messiah. (Luke 7:24). It depends on the context as to which meaning of human or celestial angels should be understood.

But in the context of 1 Timothy 5:21, Paul solemnly charges Timothy by the highest witnesses he can call upon, saying, "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." In this case, Paul was referring to righteous, celestial angelic beings that dwelled with God and the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven to bring the weightiest import he could possibly call upon in his directive to Timothy.

And yes, these "ELECT ANGELS" are a very large group of angels in the heavens. Daniel 7's description of the throne of the Ancient of Days pictures God's attending angels as a huge quantity of "a thousand thousand ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand attended upon him...". Psalms 68:17 also gives a very large number of angels representing God's strength in battle. "The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place."

Your last point offered no evidence to Divine Angels being able to sin.
Both the celestial angelic creatures and terrestrial humanity were originally created righteous, but with the ability to make righteous or evil choices from the time they were created. It was a "probationary" test that both categories failed. Only those whom God has elected will be preserved in a righteous status, both angels and humans.

Only in the case of humanity represented by the fallen Adam, God designed a program of redemption through Christ. In the case of the angels which "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation", God did not design a program of redemption for them (Hebrews 2:16) - only a final destruction for which all the fallen angels were reserved (Jude 6). Those celestial "elect angels" were preserved in their original status of holiness before God and did not fall into sin against their Creator. And since AD 70, these "elect angels" are the only celestial angelic beings left after all the fallen angelic creatures were destroyed.

Paul in 1 Timothy 3:6 also referred to the Devil being judged for the sin of pride which led to his fall. Timothy's selection of a minister was not to include those new to the faith - "not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil." Satan as the "anointed cherub" was originally "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created till iniquity was found in thee." (Ez. 28:15). That "iniquity" of the anointed cherub had developed through Satan's pride, leading to his condemnation.
 

3 Resurrections

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This ‘satan is dead’ or ‘there’s no such thing as satan’ seems very Keyser Soze, ‘the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist’
No, the "greatest trick" is that the institutional church has convinced people that Satan was never slain by God as He had promised to do, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ez. 28:18-19). That fallen "anointed cherub" who had been in Eden was burned up and reduced to ashes on the earth long ago in the sight of men. Satan is dead as a doornail at present.

By keeping the threat of Satan and his devils to hang over the heads of the gullible congregants, the institutional church has maintained great power and control over the masses in past generations. Mother church has used this teaching as one of her means of keeping herself in power and control over the nations and to maintain the flow of money into her coffers. Unfortunately, the Reformation didn't reform this erroneous doctrine as they should have, along with other erroneous church traditions. So here we are today, with the vast majority of people still ignorant of the scripture texts which teach us that Satan and his devils and the unclean spirits were all destroyed back in AD 70.
 

Taken

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That's odd Taken that you would take me to two passaged (unrelated) which offer nothing at all about divine nature.

Here, this is what you should have posted:

for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

Notice the difference between mortal nature (lusts, sin etc) compare to divine nature?

You have a problem because the emnity is in the flesh but if your divine natured angels can sin you have emnity in God.

F2F

I questioned your words…”divine nature”…?

A bit of an oxymoron.
Divine…relates to the Holiness of a SPIRIT entity.
Nature…relates to a Creation.

The Lord God Almighty IS the ONLY Holy “not Created” entity.

The Lord God Almighty “CREATED” divine holy entities, and established their “estate”, (heavens above manKinds estate, Earth, but below Gods “estate” heaven above the heavens, and established their identity…ie. “celestial beings”, called broadly “angels”.)

Created celestial beings (angels), AND Created terrestrial beings (manKind)…
EACH, have FREEWILL…
Ie. THE LIBERTY to Choose as they decide.

Celestial Beings…can REMAIN holy and WITH God….or not.

Terrestrial Beings….can BE “with” God, “leave” God, return and be “with” God, or Remain “without” God.

Terrestrial Beings….can MAKE a VOW of “commitment”, TO the Lord, to FOREVER Be “WITH” God.

Such a TRUE VOW, is examined by the Lord…
Should such VOW, BE, by the Lord FOUND, DISCOVERED TO BE TRUE…
Then SHALL the Lord perform WORKS “with… IN “ that individual…TO KEEP that man, ASSURED…GUARANTEED…WITH God FOREVER!

Celestial (angel) beings…HAVE NO SUCH OFFERING!
They were were Created…’WITH’ God.
(Mankind wasn’t).

A Celestial (angel’s) Freewill OPTION …. Is to FOREVER Remain “WITH God”…OR “LEAVE God”….FOREVER…
ONCE they choose to LEAVE God, they have NO OPTION, NO CHOICE, to ever RETURN to God!

A celestial angel that which LIES TO or ABOUT God, has made his CHOICE to LEAVE God…
AND ?
God WHO IS Faithful and True…Keeps HIS WORD, and Separates Himself from the Created celestial angel, and the Created celestial angel from Himself….

By all indication…God has Created MILLIONS of celestial angels.
By all indications…Lucifer, WAS the First Created celestial angel.
By all indications…Lucifer, had great Beauty, had great Power, had great Talents, of song, of music, of persuasion….
and
By all indications…a great ego, of desire, of greed, of entitlement to Rule “OVER” His Creator, His Master and His Masters Creations.

And THUS…the True and Faithful Lord God Almighty…Separated, Sent, Banned Lucifer, FROM Lucifers “estate”….DOWN to Gods…
Created manKinds “Estate”…Earth.

Essentially, ALLOWING Lucifer (with a New. Name, Satan, and a New description, Liar, Murderer, Deceiver, Serpent, Devil)… to Occupy, mingle, influence, Gods manKIND of creations “IN” manKINDS estate, EARTH.

God, ALLOWING, Lucifer / Satan, to Occupy Earth…DID NOT PREVENT Gods OWN PLAN for He Himself, to ALSO “influence” His OWN created manKind of Terrestrial Beings, IN the Order, Way, Manner, God Himself had Already ESTABLISHED…AND BIT BY BIT, REVEALED TO manKIND.

My Comment regarding…”your words”…”DIVINE nature”, was SPOT ON.

The ONLY Divine (ie. holy) nature (ie.Created) entities are “angels”.

When they “choose” to “stand Against God”…by default, they LOSE their “divine holiness”.

Created humans, are natural Creations. They are NOT DIVINE, NOT holy.
They CAN freely Choose, to become made “perfected”…….”IN” Christ…..occupy HIS risen Holy Body…
AND “promised” to be RISEN UP IN their OWN ANEW, holy, divine, glorified body.

No HUMAN HAS YET, been RISEN UP IN their OWN ANEW, holy, divine, glorified body.

Many (yet a FEW by comparison to ALL of manKIND that has EVER been naturally born)….HAVE Expressly Received the
NON-REVOKABLE PROMISE of God, by and through Christ the Lord God….
THEY SHALL BE RISEN UP IN the holy, divine, glorified body, according to Gods PROMISE.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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No, the "greatest trick" is that the institutional church has convinced people that Satan was never slain by God as He had promised to do, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ez. 28:18-19). That fallen "anointed cherub" who had been in Eden was burned up and reduced to ashes on the earth long ago in the sight of men. Satan is dead as a doornail at present.

FALSE.

Satan IS ALIVE, IS Present upon the Face of mankind’s “ESTATE”…Earth.

Satan CONTINUES to exercise his Power of Deceptions, Trickery, Deceit, Persuasion OVER the WEAKEST of manKind alive upon the face of the Earth…
The Children, the ignorant (void of Gods Truth), the insatiable GREEDY…are Satan’s prime TARGETS.
OPEN your EYES…LOOK around, OBSERVE, the RESULTS, in the Children, the Ignorant, the Greedy….IN their ANTI-Godly, IMMORAL, coddling, promotions, advocating, forcing through fear and threats.
Satan SHALL NEVER DIE.
Satan IS Banned, Separated from Gods Heavenly Kingdom.
God SHALL “ultimately” OPEN His Present Division of Heaven and Earth, Bringing HIS Kingdom TO Earth.
Satan SHALL “ultimately” Be Banned, SEPARATED from Earth, and SENT LOWER, to Hell.
God SHALL Claim VICTORY OVER Satan, Devils, mans dead body’s, mans lifeless souls, Death, and Hell AGAINST GOD…and they BURN FOREVER IN a LOWER (in the Earth) pit of Fire, WITH NO MEANS to ESCAPE…
The Celestial spirits, are alive forever, and shall burn forever IN the fire pit of hell, and remembered by the smoke thereof that rises up to the earth.
The Terrestrial dead mans lifeless body & lifeless soul shall become ash and the memory of them forgotten.

Those things have NOT yet Occurred.
 
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3 Resurrections

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Satan SHALL NEVER DIE.
NOT TRUE. Isaiah 27:1 predicted that God would slay that Dragon. Ezekiel 28:18-19 predicted just HOW God would slay Satan, the formerly "anointed cherub" which fell into iniquity. God said He would bring a fire out of that fallen cherub, and reduce him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of men, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore". This was total destruction of Satan by fire. What God created can be destroyed by God.

Satan as a created being does not have inherent immortality. Only Christ has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16), and anyone who is "IN CHRIST" will put on that imputed immortality in the resurrection process (1 Cor. 15:53-54). Satan is not "IN CHRIST", and so does not have that imputed immortality ("The Prince of this world...hath nothing in me..."). "No murderer hath eternal life", and we are told regarding Satan that "He was a murderer from the beginning". Ergo, Satan doesn't have eternal life in any sense of the word.
 

Taken

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NOT TRUE. Isaiah 27:1 predicted that God would slay that Dragon. Ezekiel 28:18-19 predicted just HOW God would slay Satan, the formerly "anointed cherub" which fell into iniquity. God said He would bring a fire out of that fallen cherub, and reduce him to ashes upon the earth in the sight of men, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore". This was total destruction of Satan by fire. What God created can be destroyed by God.

You didn’t continue LEARNING.
Gods WORD…KNOWLEDGE is given manKIND, little by little, bit by bit.

The UNDERSTANDING of Gods WORD…
“Begins unto manKIND … LOGICAL, what a mans NATURAL CARNAL MIND can “naturally” comprehend…
“Gods SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING”…is Far beyond what a mans Carnal “natural” Mind CAN, IS ABLE to comprehend.”

“WHEN”…a mans “natural spirit” (truth in his Heart)…BECOMES MADE…BORN AGAIN…
That mans TRUTH (in his heart), BECOMES ESTABLISHED to RECEIVE Gods supernatural Understanding OF HIS OWN WORD!

So…Early, Ancient manKIND, learns…God shall SLAY the Dragon…

What DOES Slay mean in a carnal mans Minds understanding? KILL? Right?

What is the common Carnal minds Understanding of KILL ? Death…Secession of Life. Right?

How come you DID NOT LEARN… Spirits are NOT mortal entities subject to DEATH?

How come you DID NOT LEARN…A mere SEPARATION from God…IS DEATH…whether or not the “separated thing is ALIVE or DEAD” ?

Millions of “Bodily Alive” persons…”ARE spiritually dead” ! They ARE separated from THEE Spiritual God.

A human, that God has OFFERED Salvation TO: (according to His order, way, means)…
IS: Dead (yet bodily alive)…
IS: even called DEAD…and Revealed WHY one (who is living…is DEAD-) he “IN” God ? NO…he “IN” sin Against God? Yes.

Col 2:
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


A living human man SHALL remain DEAD, (throughout his whole ALIVE natural bodily Life…
UNTIL, such time…he is freely, willing TO be Crucified (consent, pledge, vow his bodily life unto Death FOR God)…

THEN is that mans SPIRIT made ALIVE FOREVER.

Spirits do not DIE.

(Celestial Spirits AGAINST God, as well ARE DEAD IN THEIR SIN, AGAINST GOD…
They SHALL forever Be Separated FROM God).

Satan as a created being does not have inherent immortality.

Satan IS a created spirit…he shall LIVE Forever…yet separated from God, DEAD to God Forever.
 
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BlessedPeace

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No, the "greatest trick" is that the institutional church has convinced people that Satan was never slain by God as He had promised to do, so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ez. 28:18-19). That fallen "anointed cherub" who had been in Eden was burned up and reduced to ashes on the earth long ago in the sight of men. Satan is dead as a doornail at present.
.....
I'm hoping someone will post the name of the Denomination that teaches Satan is dead.


The king of Tyre was a man.

Not Satan.


"...The king of Tyre at the time Ezekiel was written was Ithobaal III (sometimes spelled Ethbaal III) who reigned from 591–573 BC. His name connects him with the Phoenician god Baal." ....continues at link
 

3 Resurrections

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How come you DID NOT LEARN… Spirits are NOT mortal entities subject to DEATH?
Spirits ARE capable of being destroyed. They are not inherently eternal in character. God creates the spirit, soul, and body of all mankind. Paul expressed his desire in 1 Thess. 5:23 for his Thessalonian readers that their spirit, soul, and body would be preserved unblameably in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. This desire for a blameless preservation of all three of these tells us that there was a fate for the ungodly that all these three things (including the spirit) would NOT be preserved in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the judgment.

We are to fear Him who has power after the physical death of a person to destroy both body and soul in Hell (Matt. 10:28). Since God has created not just the terrestrial and celestial bodies of men and angels (1 Cor. 15:40), but the spirits of both men and angels as well, then He has the prerogative to destroy the spirits of terrestrial AND celestial creatures if they have disobeyed Him.
Satan IS a created spirit…he shall LIVE Forever…yet separated from God, DEAD to God Forever.
Satan was more than just a spirit being. He was created with what Paul called a "celestial body" (1 Cor. 15:40). Celestial angelic beings (like Gabriel) can take on the appearance of a man (Daniel 8:15, 10:16, 18).
 

BlessedPeace

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Spirits ARE capable of being destroyed. They are not inherently eternal in character. God creates the spirit, soul, and body of all mankind. Paul expressed his desire in 1 Thess. 5:23 for his Thessalonian readers that their spirit, soul, and body would be preserved unblameably in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. This desire for a blameless preservation of all three of these tells us that there was a fate for the ungodly that all these three things (including the spirit) would NOT be preserved in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the judgment.

We are to fear Him who has power after the physical death of a person to destroy both body and soul in Hell (Matt. 10:28). Since God has created not just the terrestrial and celestial bodies of men and angels (1 Cor. 15:40), but the spirits of both men and angels as well, then He has the prerogative to destroy the spirits of terrestrial AND celestial creatures if they have disobeyed Him.

Satan was more than just a spirit being. He was created with what Paul called a "celestial body" (1 Cor. 15:40). Celestial angelic beings (like Gabriel) can take on the appearance of a man (Daniel 8:15, 10:16, 18).
Do you know the source of a spirit?
 

3 Resurrections

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The king of Tyre was a man.

Not Satan.
You should take note that from Ezekiel 28:11-19, the particular "Prince of Tyre" addressed there was pronounced "PERFECT IN THY WAYS from the day thou wast created till iniquity was found in thee." This is NOT something that could be descriptive of a human "Prince of Tyre".
The human "Prince of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28:1-10 was NOT "Perfect" in his ways from the time he was created. This monarch was "conceived in iniquity" before he was ever born, as is true of all fallen mankind who have descended from Adam.

But the "anointed cherub" of Ezekiel 28:11-19 who had been in Eden and who had originally been created "perfect in thy ways" until he fell into the sin of pride and disobeyed his Creator - this is a different species being written about - a different celestial "Prince of Tyre" than the human "Prince of Tyre" written about in Ez. 28:1-10.
 

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Do you know the source of a spirit?
At our physical death, the spirit "returns to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7) to deal with it as He wills. The spirit of humans and that of angels has an origination point from God Himself. But neither the spirit of humans nor of angels inherently possess an eternal character by themselves.

Only that which is covered by Christ's own inherent immortality has eternal life. Everything else not connected with Christ's inherent immortality will eventually die and utterly perish. "Who ONLY hath immortality" (1 Tim. 6:16) is an exclusively inherent quality that only Christ possesses. For those who are "IN CHRIST", that immortality will be shared with the children of faith who are elected. Eternal life with a deathless existence has also been granted to the righteous "elect angels" in heaven (Luke 20:36, Mark 12:25). But the non-elect of both human and celestial creatures are destined to utterly perish.
 
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