Worship of Christ
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
. Jesus explained spiritual realities by telling Nicodemus that he must be “born again” (John 3:3). He used this physical term because we all understand birth. When two babies have shared the same womb or the same father, they are of the same family. They carry similar DNA, inherited traits, and rights to claim parentage. When a human being is born into the family of God, through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus, God becomes our Father (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:4–6). This happens through an act of the Holy Spirit who moves into our spirits and begins to change us (2 Corinthians 5:17). God is also the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we share in that relationship as adopted children. Jesus, our brother, purchased with His blood the right for us to call His Father our Father. He is not ashamed to call us brothers because His righteousness is imputed to us, making us blameless as He is blameless (2 Corinthians 5:21).
| Audio Cross Study Comm Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. New Living Translation For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. English Standard Version For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Berean Standard Bible For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. Berean Literal Bible because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to beconformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be firstborn among many brothers. |
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Please stop forcing your will/ belief onto others, it’s controlling and prideful...it’s not of God.
I stand by all of my posts that Jesus is not fully God...I will not continue arguing with you on the subject, God has shown me and taught me, when it’s time to walk away , from a wilful and argumentative person, as I once was.....you are an argumentative person also....anyone can see that.......I will leave with this....goodbye.
In the Hebrew scriptures, the ‘son of man’ is also used many times speaking of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6-8; 3:1-3).Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called ‘the son of man’, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called ‘son of man’ specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a ‘son of man’ according to the Bible.
The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)
And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)
Jesus did not teach people that he was God
If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.
The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
Jesus never instructed his disciples to worship him
‘When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.’ (Luke 11:2)
‘In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.’ (John 16:23)
‘The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.’ (John 4:23)
If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself
Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.
Jesus worshipped the only true God
‘that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.’ (John 17:3)
‘he continued all night in prayer to God.’ (Luke 6:12)
‘Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve’ (Matthew 20:28)
How did Jesus pray to God?
‘he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father’ (Matthew 26:39)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I am right and you are wrong.
Your doctrine is heretical to what every Bible plainly says over and over again, there is one God (YHWH), who we relate to as Father. This is Jesus’ God.
Jesus plainly said that the Father is the only true God. Why do you not believe Jesus?
You're the one who said Jesus isn't THE Savior! Remember? The Bible says Jesus is THE Savior!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
As ritajanuce observed, you are argumentative. The Bible has a lot of agency in it. You are denying it.
A cup bearer may drink from the king’s cup. Doesn’t make him king.
I simply reminded you of your comment that Jesus isn't THE Savior! How is that arguing? The Bible insists that Jesus is God!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Answered in your very next sentence and the sentence before.
No verse states that. Many verses states Jesus is NOT God by implication, e.g., Jesus died.
If I was arguing, so were you.
Many absolutely prove that Jesus is God of the Bible!
Hebrews 1:6-10
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." 10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Jack, you are so argumentative. That is the charge @Ritajanice made against you. Educate yourself on the difference between having a disagreement with someone from being argumentative. It might help your ministry.
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Defending the Bible is arguing? I'm here to defend the Bible. Bible defenders always get attacked and falsely accused!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No, my friend. Defending something is called Apology. From Merriam
apology
noun
apol·o·gy ə-ˈpä-lə-jēplural apologies
Synonyms of apology
1a: an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret
a public apology
b apologies plural : an expression of regret for not being able to do something
I won't be able to attend. Please give them my apologies.
2a: something that is said or written to defend something that other people criticize : DEFENSE
The book is an apology for capitalism.
b: EXCUSE sense 2a
3 informal : a poor substitute or example : MAKESHIFT
He's a poor apology for a father.
When you think about what we do in having these online discussions, we employ the Proverb, "iron sharpens iron." It means by our interactions, we improve our defense of our faith. I am a unitarian Christian. We should be able to disagree agreeably and I think that is the point that @Ritajanice was making about your being argumentative, i.e., NOT disagreeing agreeably.
Imagine a scenario when all is said and done. The facts are on the table. The arguments (or apologies made). We side one way or the other and so do the readers.
Compare us on the political field, where I believe we are aligned. Why is it that we are aligned in support of MAGA but others are opposed? Apologies, defenses are needed there as well. And again, imagine a scenario when all is said and done. The facts are on the table. The arguments (or apologies made). We side one way or the other and so do the readers. My stepdaughter is not a Christian and is a raving Progressive. Passions run high on the topics of religions and politics, don't you think?
It's OK if we don't agree on every point. United on some things. Not united on other things. This is the way of the human condition, even within marriages and bff's. No need to be acrimonious brother. We both defend Jesus and the Bible.
Isn't that what you're doing right now?
You sound like a JW.
How ironic!
Hebrews 1:6-10
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
Wow! Are you really saying Jesus wasn't good???
Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
ONLY Jesus / God are "Mighty God" in the Bible! Jesus is God!
You want me to apologize for defending the Bible? Ain't gonna happen. The Bible is God's written Word. Jesus is God and Hell Fire is eternal! The CYB Statement of Faith agrees with me.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
@Wrangler ...put him on ignore....that’s what I’ve done...he tries to antagonise JWS on here as well...I’ve done the same in the past.with Aunty....not now, God showed me to respect what Aunty believes....
Remember that the flesh loves to argue, the Spirit does not..
What did Jesus say about fruit?
You will know them by their fruit.
Also we should be growing in spiritual maturity becoming more and more like Jesus, would Jesus have argued in the flesh as some of us do/ have done...I think not.
I always remember Rita saying, have your say then walk away....for some of us that can take a long time to register...plus we can’t do it in our own strength...having the last word is about Control and pride..
Adamant that they/ we are right, is also control and or pride...been there done all that.....I’ve moved on from that mindset and immaturity...it’s childish and unedifying......plus it brings no GLORY to God..Praise God, Ive moved on ....taken long enough......remember the enemy is like a roaring lion ,he also knows our weaknesses.....stay alert....
You and I ,don’t believe Jesus is God, we’ve posted the scripture to prove that...that is what we believe....no point in arguing over it.....I did that on another thread.....the thread got locked because it started to get nasty...by some involved.
If he wants to force his point let him...that’s his choice....I’ve made mine...to walk away.
Remember that the flesh loves to argue, the Spirit does not..
What did Jesus say about fruit?
You will know them by their fruit.
Also we should be growing in spiritual maturity becoming more and more like Jesus, would Jesus have argued in the flesh as some of us do/ have done...I think not.
I always remember Rita saying, have your say then walk away....for some of us that can take a long time to register...plus we can’t do it in our own strength...having the last word is about Control and pride..
Adamant that they/ we are right, is also control and or pride...been there done all that.....I’ve moved on from that mindset and immaturity...it’s childish and unedifying......plus it brings no GLORY to God..Praise God, Ive moved on ....taken long enough......remember the enemy is like a roaring lion ,he also knows our weaknesses.....stay alert....
You and I ,don’t believe Jesus is God, we’ve posted the scripture to prove that...that is what we believe....no point in arguing over it.....I did that on another thread.....the thread got locked because it started to get nasty...by some involved.
If he wants to force his point let him...that’s his choice....I’ve made mine...to walk away.
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I try to pull JW's and JW defenders from the fire as Jesus instructed!
Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
And I will continue to defend the Bible no matter how much is upsets Bible attackers.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. I'm saying defending the Bible IS an apology. Did you not read the definition?
An apology, a defense is different from being argumentative. Again from Merriam
ar·gu·men·ta·tive ˌär-gyə-ˈmen-tə-tiv
variants or less commonly argumentive
ˌär-gyə-ˈmen-tiv
Synonyms of argumentative
1
: given to argument : tending to argue : having or showing a tendency to disagree or argue with other people in an angry way
Using politics again as an example. I apologize for Trump and MAGA, which means I acknowledge there may be arguments against him but the arguments in his favor outweigh the negative. This is a humble apology.
Today, we are dumbed down as a society and make such humble apologies less and less. On all topics - including religion and politics - we take the polar position that there is not one single argument against my position, all the facts line up on my side. This is not humble.
Deepak Chopra wrote a book called the 7 Laws of Spiritual Success. One law is the Law of Defenselessness. What it means is to gain all kinds of energy and time by NOT defending what is not important to you. In this case, the facts against our position. Those who criticize the Bible, for instance, I can simultaneously acquiesce to their criticisms while also holding the Bible is the word of God that we should live our lives by.
In other words, it's an application of don't resist evil. We don't have to have an answer to every question or critique and this is very freeing and liberates us spiritually. I hope you take all this into consideration in your next apology.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Self-righteousness is in that post, my friend. You "try" too hard. You know the verse about shaking the dust off your feet?
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