Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

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VictoryinJesus

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precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little” (Isaiah 28:10)

I’ve never understood that passage which goes on to say
Isaiah 28:12: He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen.

Isaiah 28:13: So (therefore)the word of the LORD to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

that they may stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive? It doesn’t sound too pleasant?
 

praise_yeshua

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Let me post it again for you brother:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

These prophesying daughters would have to obey this rule set forth by the Apostle Paul when they entered the church.

Period end of story!

Nope. Paul appeals to those married. You can tell because he mentions "husbands"......

Why didn't you "BOLD" that part of the verse.

Single women..... no one to obey.
 

n2thelight

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To put it simply, if you follow Scripture, yes.

Wives are to submit to husbands.
Women are not to have authority over men in the church.
Women are to remain quiet in the church (yes that means women pastors is wholly against Scripture).

Only if the man has Christ as the head
Who were the woman Esther and Ruth
Everybody should remain quiet in Church

Really wanna hit the women Pastor thing though

What would you have us do with Ruth and Esther ?

There are only two books in the Bible named after women, Esther and Ruth. "Ruth" in the Hebrew tongue means "Beauty". In the case of Esther, the story line goes that this Jewess woman married a Gentile; while Ruth, a Gentile married a Hebrew husband. Ruth was a Moabitish woman, and because Ruth will be found in the genealogy of Christ, it is good to know who these Moabites were. Of course they are of the same family as Abraham, as Moab was the son of Lot, Abraham's nephew. The word "Moab" means, "of his own father". So Moab was born after Lot had escaped the destruction of Sodom, the residence of Lot. So Ruth was of the eighth day creation, and not the sixth day creation. This was all in the plan of God, in keeping the bloodline of our Lord Jesus Christ pure. It is important to us today, for this is the key to knowing who the true Messiah is. In the true Messiah, all can come to our heavenly Father.

This book of Ruth had its place in the Hebrew Canon, and it is the second of the five Megalith, or Scrolls to be read at the Feast of Pentecost. The order determined by the order of the feasts. Written for the purpose of linking David and Christ; as we read in Matthew 1:5-16, placing Christ, the son of David. Many even today think it is impossible for a Moabitess to be in the genealogy of Christ, because of what was written in Deuteronomy 23:3; "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever:" Why?

Deuteronomy 23:4 "Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee."

So here we have Ruth in the seedline of Christ; How can that be? The banishment was not directed to women, only to the Moabite men. There is no contradiction in the Word concerning Ruth and the seedline of Jesus Christ. However there is one word that is necessary to understand complete, and that word is "kinsman redeemer". The "kinsman", in the Hebrew is "Goel", meaning next of kin, the one "who had the right of redemption". In that Ruth was the great grandmother to David, the man through which the Messiah Jesus Christ would come, then this book that was read on Pentecost day is telling of the Kinsman Redeemer of all Redeemers, for Christ would become our Kinsman Redeemer for once and all times. You are His kin if you have faith and love Him, and He is in you. Jesus paid an awesome price to fulfill that position to redeem your soul and give you life eternal.
 

n2thelight

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What is a pastor?

A pastor is a shepherd. That’s what the word literally means. A pastor is someone who tends and guides spiritual sheep.

Can women pastor?

Let me answer that question with a better one: If God has gifted and called a woman to pastor, should we oppose him?

Here’s another: Since God empowered women to lead churches in the New Testament, is there any reason to expect that he has stopped doing that today?

Some may say, “No female pastors are named in the Bible.” Neither are any male pastors named in the Bible. Search the scriptures and you will find no one identified as Pastor So-and-so.

We live in the age of the celebrity pastor, but the early church had no such thing. What it did have were nameless groups of elders or overseers, such as the Ephesian elders who met with Paul, or the elders Paul greeted at the start of his letter to the Philippians.

That said, the Bible identifies at least three females who pastored. It’s time for us to meet these little-known ladies.

Pastor Prisca
Prisca was one of Paul’s closest friends. They were such dear friends that the apostle called her by the diminutive version of her name, Priscilla.

Priscilla and her husband Aquila were Jewish business people who met Paul in Corinth and travelled with him to Ephesus (Acts 18). When Paul left Ephesus, Priscilla and Aquila stayed behind and continued to preach the gospel (1 Cor 16:19). Soon they were hosting a church that met in their house. Later, they went to Rome and planted another church.

We know this because of the way Paul greets them in his letter to the Romans:

Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. Greet also the church that meets at their house. (Romans 16:3-5a)

This brief mention speaks volumes.

Priscilla and her husband weren’t merely homegroup leaders; they were church planters with a multinational legacy. Such was her influence that Paul said the Gentile churches owed Priscilla a debt of gratitude.

What did Priscilla do?

To quote Gene Edwards, Priscilla was “Paul’s right-hand man.” Paul considered her his equal and said she had risked her life for him (like a good shepherd).

Priscilla was not just a preacher or teacher. She was a pastor to the apostles. She trained Apollos in Ephesus and had two apostles, Andronicus and Junia, in her church at Rome. Priscilla was not merely a pastor; she was a super-pastor who raised giants in the faith. (I guess she never got the memo about women staying silent in church.)

Nympha’s church
At a time when the church only met in people’s homes, several women were recognized as church leaders. Priscilla was one; Nympha was another.

Paul greeted “Nympha and the church that is in her house” (Col. 4:15). We know very little about Nympha. Her house was located either in Laodicea or elsewhere in the Lycus Valley. Was she a pastor? Did she lead the church that met in her house? She must have done so, for Paul greets no one else in her church.

Chloe and her people
Chloe is another one of those intriguing people who gets only a single mention in the Bible: “I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you” (1 Cor. 1:11).

We don’t know anything about Chloe other than she lived in Corinth and she had people.

Who were these people?

Were they her companions or a church that met in her house?

We can’t be sure. But in the same way that “men from James” came to Antioch, “people from Chloe” came to Paul, and he recognized her as a leader within the church community. In short, she was a pastor.

If Paul objected to women pastors, the visit from Chloe’s people would’ve presented him with the perfect opportunity to say so. To quote Tim Fall, Paul might have expressed his concerns like this:

It has come to my attention you have a woman (Chloe) presiding over a group of brothers and sisters. This must not be! Is there not a man among you who could take over? Don’t wait until I am among you to correct this abomination.

Of course, Paul said no such thing because Paul had no problem with women in leadership. Instead of rebuking Chloe’s people for putting a woman in charge, he credited them for drawing his attention to a problem.

Nice job, Chloe’s people.

Many people say women cannot be pastors and they cannot lead churches, yet women did these very things in the Bible. The New Testament church had female pastors, female apostles, female prophets, female evangelists and female teachers, because God has commissioned all of us, men and women, to proclaim the good news.

Some say women can’t teach because Eve was deceived. They forget that Jesus redeemed us from whatever mistakes Eve and Adam made, and he proved it by empowering women and including them among his disciples.

“But Paul, you have forgotten that the qualifications for a pastor that Paul gave in 1 Timothy 3 exclude women.”

No I haven’t, and no it doesn’t. Although many churches exclude women from influential positions of leadership, the reasons for this have more to do with tradition than what the Bible actually says.

Women Pastors in the Bible
 
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OzSpen

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“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.” (1 Corinthians 14:26)

Because Paul already told you:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

So the passage you bring attention to does not include women because:

“precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little” (Isaiah 28:10)

M-I,

It's an oxymoron for women to be commanded to "keep silence in the churches" (1 Cor 14:34) and yet in 1 Cor 14:39 (NIV) they are taught: "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." Men and women could prophesy and speak in tongues. That does not mix with silent women.

Then you throw 1 Tim 2:11-12 into the mix. It is too easy to "let a woman learn in silence with all subjection" without careful exegesis. See my attempt at exegesis in: Must women never teach men in the church?

Oz
 

Lambano

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reformed1689

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I think they handled all the top leadership roles, from military commander to supreme court, Deborah was also a prophetess. Whether that means she gave spiritual leadership, that would be speculation.

I agree, this does not define the woman's role in the church. But it does speak towards what God will and won't do.

Much love!
I disagree that it speaks to what God will and won't do, because he told us what he will not do in the NT.
 
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reformed1689

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Understood. And I don't think he'd have said "deacon of the church in Cenchrea" lightly. I think this was a serious mission taking Paul's letter to Rome.

Romans 16:2 KJV
2) That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Much love!
We actually do not know definitively that she carried the letter. We assume that based on culture.

Phoebe as a Possible Courier

Phoebe was most likely the courier for Paul’s letter to Rome. In Romans 16:1–2 Paul urges the Roman Christians to receive and assist her as she comes to them, presumably with the letter. Such commendations for couriers were frequent in the ancient world, because often the recipients did not know the courier (compare Acts 18:27; 2 Cor 3:1; 2 Maccabees 9:25). The term diakonos might suggest Phoebe carried the letter, since the term can describe an intermediary. For example, in some of the manuscripts of Romans the subscriptio at the end of the letter reads, “The letter was written to the Romans from Corinth through Phoebe.” Since it is clear that Tertius was Paul’s secretary (compare Rom 16:22), it is likely that Phoebe was the courier. This does not necessarily suggest she read the letter to the church on arrival—letter carriers did not function as lectors in the ancient world (compare Acts 15:30; Col 4:16; 1 Thess 5:27; Head, “Named Letter-Carriers,” 279–99; contra Miller, “What Can We Say,” 17–18).

Lexham Bible Dictionary
 
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ScottA

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This completely ignores the context. You are wrong sir.
You refer to the context of that pertained only to this world, which is not why the story is even included in the eternal word of God. But if you are going to stop and include only the matters of this world--do as you will. Your own will.

But the greater context of Paul's message--is not of this world, but of the kingdom, of which Paul was a servant.

I have told you the truth.
 
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marks

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We actually do not know definitively that she carried the letter. We assume that based on culture.

Phoebe as a Possible Courier

Phoebe was most likely the courier for Paul’s letter to Rome. In Romans 16:1–2 Paul urges the Roman Christians to receive and assist her as she comes to them, presumably with the letter. Such commendations for couriers were frequent in the ancient world, because often the recipients did not know the courier (compare Acts 18:27; 2 Cor 3:1; 2 Maccabees 9:25). The term diakonos might suggest Phoebe carried the letter, since the term can describe an intermediary. For example, in some of the manuscripts of Romans the subscriptio at the end of the letter reads, “The letter was written to the Romans from Corinth through Phoebe.” Since it is clear that Tertius was Paul’s secretary (compare Rom 16:22), it is likely that Phoebe was the courier. This does not necessarily suggest she read the letter to the church on arrival—letter carriers did not function as lectors in the ancient world (compare Acts 15:30; Col 4:16; 1 Thess 5:27; Head, “Named Letter-Carriers,” 279–99; contra Miller, “What Can We Say,” 17–18).

Lexham Bible Dictionary
Also true. I'd say she was "almost certainly" the one, however, this is not explicitly stated. However, that doesn't change that she is called a deacon to the church, specifically to a certain church.

Much love!
 

reformed1689

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Also true. I'd say she was "almost certainly" the one, however, this is not explicitly stated. However, that doesn't change that she is called a deacon to the church, specifically to a certain church.

Much love!
Right and the usage doesn't allow for anything more than a servant. You are reading way too much into this.