Can one be saved while they are all alone?

[tzcho2]

“I’d say”? Why can’t you say....the Bible says....Saul received the HS on the road. You know why? Because IT DOESNT.


You are now applying a passage out of context. Peter DID NOT have Saul in mind when he made this statement. If he did then prove it.

For the record. I believe Saul would have received the HS from Jesus. The Bible just doesn’t say when. So, we cannot insert our own beliefs.

Side question....why are you so arrogant and obnoxious?

 

[CNKW3]

That's what these types always do when you provide the answer, they change the objection to something else, again and again.

These types never get answers

 

[tzcho2]

These types never get answers

You are the one that likes to change the goal posts & insult & btw, the only one who thinks that you are a bible teacher.

 

[CNKW3]

Side question....why are you so arrogant and obnoxious?

First of all...that is your opinion. I do not believe I am arrogant and obnoxious.
Second...I am just taking a page out of Elijah’s playbook on how to deal with stubborn, no it all but won’t answer anything type of people. I ask some of the most straight forward and simple questions that everyone of you dodge and then tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. You know how many times I’ve been told that in the last two months? More than I care to count. How should I respond? You tell me Saul received HS on the road when you know good and well the Bible doesn’t say anything about that. But you don’t seem to care. How am I supposed to respond?
Everybody on here acts like billy Graham, like they have the truth but then get mad at me when I say prove it. Read chapter 23 of Matt and tell me how Christ dealt with people like that. Ask him why he was being insensitive to their beliefs. They didn’t have Bible either.

 

[CNKW3]

You are the one that likes to change the goal posts & insult & btw, the only one who thinks that you are a bible teacher.

Give me an example of when I “moved the goal post”

 

[CNKW3]

You are the one that likes to change the goal posts & insult & btw, the only one who thinks that you are a bible teacher.

This is what I get when I ask Bible questions. I get attacked personally. I don’t attack individuals I attack doctrines. I don’t care who you are I just care what you say and teach.

 

[CNKW3]

And he [Saul] said, Who art thou, Lord? (Acts 9:5)

What does Scripture say about who calls Jesus "Lord"?
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost (1 Cor 12:3)

You are looking for text-book answers which you will never receive. These things are understood by the spirit through the Spirit. Saul had no choice except to believe that Jesus who spoke to him is both Lord and God, since he was blinded by the glory of God.

Come to the truth Enoch! I think you want to. You at least try to present Bible.

You won’t have to dodge anything. You won’t have to wonder...why did they not get the Spirit in acts 8 but they did in acts 10. You won’t have to spin any of Sauls conversion. You wont have to explain away acts 2:38. The great commission will completely harmonize with the rest of the NT.

I was listening to 2 guys on the radio today in the car, baptist, and they were all distraught by how many problems their people have with biblical teaching not harmonizing. It seems they are always having to spin things or dismiss things because of this problem. They can’t make the Bible fit.

Their solution was just to forget about it and put their faith in God and realize they just didn’t have all the answers. I was laughing going down the road, because the Bible is in complete harmony from start to finish. When you have truth you do not have to spin or wonder why it can’t be explained. I’m not saying that there aren’t tough passages but I am saying that overall doctrines will be in complete harmony when you have the trugh.
But then you’ll get called names. But that’s ok. What did Jesus say....
Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

[tzcho2]

This is what I get when I ask Bible questions. I get attacked personally. I don’t attack individuals I attack doctrines. I don’t care who you are I just care what you say and teach.

Why can't we just discuss? You conduct it like it's a game & only you have the answer.

 

[tzcho2]

This is what I get when I ask Bible questions. I get attacked personally. I don’t attack individuals I attack doctrines. I don’t care who you are I just care what you say and teach.

I am not a teacher.

 

[atpollard]

Give me an example of when I “moved the goal post”

Ask and you shall receive ...

You made a request.

So, I am asking for this....
For ANYBODY to show me where ANYONE was ever “saved” in the fashion many people say they were today. All by themselves with no participation from any other human being.

When I provided a requested example, you "moved the goal posts":

Q1: Rom 10 says nothing of repentance so I hope you arent implying that Rom 10:9,10 are all that is required?
Q2: Why did you stop at verse 10?
Q3: What did Paul say in vs 13.
Q4: So is calling on the name of the lord required?

Later you ask how God saves ...

The problem is....You say...”it is the lord that saves”.
you have not answered the most important question.
HOW DOES HE DO IT?

When I provided a scripture in which God himself explains how he saves and why he saves that way (by grace through faith and that not of ourselves, it is all the gift from God so that no man can boast), you "moved the goal posts":

Q5. Have you ever read the account of the Ephesians conversion?
Q6. Where in the Bible can I find it?
Q7. Won’t that account tell us what they did to become Christians?

When I object to your moving the goal posts ...

You are going to have to make up YOUR mind.

Asking 'How does the LORD save?' is not the same as asking 'What do people do to become Christians?'
You asked and I answered the first question, exactly how God said He did it.

... again you "moved the goal posts":

Q8. You are kidding me right?
Q9. So God saves a person TOTALLY different then the way of the example he has left for us?
Q10. So when they asked Peter...what shall we do?
Q11. And Peter said repent and be baptized for remission of sins; at what point did “the Lord save” these People?

We know it wasn’t at the point of faith like you insist through Eph 2.
According to you we can’t learn anything from this example.

Q12. Is this the way you study the Bible?

I think you are just embarrassed because you don’t know where to find the conversion of the Ephesians.
So, you are turning to a bible program right now and we’ll see if you can find it.

When I finally respond to Q1 (which was written with a belittling tone to begin with when I was guilty of nothing at that point but being stupid enough to try to respond to your request for an example) ...

I am not implying it, but Romans 10:9 explicitly states it ...

[Rom 10:9 NASB] 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

No "might". No "and". It just says "you WILL be saved".
Better take your complaint up with Paul, because I didn't write Romans, I just quoted it.

Then I had to explain my objection a second time in response to Q8 ...

No kidding.
GOD's role in salvation is different than Man's role in salvation. You cannot ask about GOD's role and expect an answer that describes Man's role.

So you move the goal posts AGAIN from what Peter commanded the people to do, to when God saved them ...

You didn’t answer...
Q13. At what point did God save those on Pentecost?

Asking about the role of PEOPLE in salvation is not the same as asking about what GOD does in salvation!
You can't keep flipping back and forth and pretend that you are asking the same question.

When did God save them?
Before the foundation of the earth!
That is not when they repented and were baptized.

 

[CNKW3]

Why can't we just discuss? You conduct it like it's a game & only you have the answer.

You don’t think this is serious? Are there right and wrong answers? Or is just everybody right in their own way. It has never been that way when it comes to the Bible.

 

[CNKW3]

Ask and you shall receive ...

You made a request.


When I provided a requested example, you "moved the goal posts":


Later you ask how God saves ...


When I provided a scripture in which God himself explains how he saves and why he saves that way (by grace through faith and that not of ourselves, it is all the gift from God so that no man can boast), you "moved the goal posts":



When I object to your moving the goal posts ...


... again you "moved the goal posts":



When I finally respond to Q1 (which was written with a belittling tone to begin with when I was guilty of nothing at that point but being stupid enough to try to respond to your request for an example) ...



Then I had to explain my objection a second time in response to Q8 ...



So you move the goal posts AGAIN from what Peter commanded the people to do, to when God saved them ...



Asking about the role of PEOPLE in salvation is not the same as asking about what GOD does in salvation!
You can't keep flipping back and forth and pretend that you are asking the same question.

When did God save them?
Before the foundation of the earth!
That is not when they repented and were baptized.

I asked to be shown an example of someone who was saved all by themselves and you give me Saul. I then made a detailed explanation of why your example was invalid. We can settle it right now though. At What point were Sauls sins removed? The answer to that question will tell us at exactly what point Saul was saved. You won’t answer and that is the problem. I gave you the courtesy of a continuing response to your post even when you refuse my questions.

You then brought up the Ephesians. I asked about their conversion. You bailed and said it didn’t matter. Our discussion was over right then. That’s not moving the goal post. I want to know if they were all alone or not. If we see an example of their conversion we will know. But you didn’t want to look at it. I asked about those on Pentecost. And NOW you say they were saved before the foundation of the world.
We are now to the point of the absurd when it comes to Bible study.
The goal post is in the same spot. Why? Because those on Pentecost had their sins removed at the same time and in the same way as Saul and that process required another human being so they weren’t alone. And if you even care to look at the account of what happened to the Ephesians you would see they weren’t alone either.
Everybody should now see why I have very little patience for this kind of treatment. NOBODY on here wants to study the Bible EVERYBODY wants to cling to their favorite passages and no more.

 

[CNKW3]

Atpollard

You said this....
“You cannot ask about GOD's role and expect an answer that describes Man's role.”

Here is the truth of the matter...
God gives the plan...man obeys the plan.
Under the new covenant.
Christ gave the great commission...
Man carried out the great commission....
Man obeys the preaching of the great commission....
That is Christianity in its simplest form.
God and man working together to save souls. You can’t have salvation one without the other. They must both work together. Paul described it this way...
1 Corinthians 3:5-9 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
God doesn’t give the increase without the planting and watering. Man has a role that is in harmony with God.

 

[Helen]

I am not implying it, but Romans 10:9 explicitly states it ...

• [Rom 10:9 NASB] 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

No "might". No "and". It just says "you WILL be saved".
Better take your complaint up with Paul, because I didn't write Romans, I just quoted it.

Hello. I don't think I welcomed you to the yet? :)

Hopefully you can find your way around. Thankfully there are more threads than just this one guy 'banging his own drum.'. lol

I am old now , 77 , but when we were first saved in our twenties, our pastor asked us to bring an old man to the Sunday services, as he lived quote close to us.
This old guy told us how he got saved etc.
He wasn't 'searching for God', he didn't belong to a church.
One night when in his 40's he woke up with a blinding flash in his bedroom.
At the end of the bed stood Jesus, he held out His hands and showed him His hands . " For you".
He started crying and asked Jesus what he should do. etc
The Lord also told him..." Your life is a waste, and I have work for you to do. If you serve me I will do some amazing things through you. " etc etc

He told us lots of stories of how God used him to lead people to Him.

But, long story short. He told us sadly , that after about a decade it all 'went to his head'. He thought that he was invincible in the Spirit, and he thought that it was he himself which had the power to be led so clearly, and say these things that God told him to people, that only they knew, and then he'd lead them to the Lord...
Like Ichabod , = "The Glory has departed "

By the time we knew him he was in his late 80's. And such a sad character.
God has taken His hand of ministry from him...and , a bit like Samson after his hair was cut...he was powerless.
He'd groan in prayer because he had once tasted....and he'd pray -"Lord , show them Your power, and save people."

Of all the colourful people that have crossed our path in the last 56 years as christians, this old guy was one we will always remember.

And he was saved in his bedroom by Jesus, totally alone.

God is God. He does what He likes, when He likes, and how He likes, and He asks no man for their approval.

God bless....Helen

 

[CNKW3]

Why can't we just discuss? You conduct it like it's a game & only you have the answer.

We can’t discuss because when I ask a basic question like....
At what point was Sauls sins removed?
Nobody will answer and study the text to see what the Bible actually says. Discussion over!

 

[atpollard]

God and man working together to save souls.

How does this not give men reason to boast? (Contrary to what God states in Ephesians 2)

Planting and watering are indiscriminate. The word of God is preached to the Elect and the Reprobate equally. Only God can till the soil of the heart to make the seed grow.

Soli Deo gloria!

 

[CNKW3]

Thankfully there are more threads than just this one guy 'banging his own drum.'. lol

Hahaha!
I love the mindset of “Christians” on this board.
It’s like NOBODY else starts a thread about something they feel strongly about? Therefore “beating their own drum”.
It’s only me!
I think Isaiah wrote of this type of attitude..
Isaiah 30:9-10 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
I get the feeling all people want is “smooth things”.
I’ve always loved that expression.

 

[Helen]

Everybody on here acts like billy Graham, like they have the truth but then get mad at me when I say prove it. Read chapter 23 of Matt and tell me how Christ dealt with people like that.

Try reading Matt 27 and see how Jesus dealt with it...
13 Then said Pilate unto Him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
14 And He answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly."

No one can "show you the truth"...truth comes by revelation, not by showing.

John 20- "Jesus saith unto him, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

 

[CNKW3]

How does this not give men reason to boast? (Contrary to what God states in Ephesians 2)

Planting and watering are indiscriminate. The word of God is preached to the Elect and the Reprobate equally. Only God can till the soil of the heart to make the seed grow.

Soli Deo gloria!

How can man boast about something they are doing through obedience? Man didn’t devise the plan of salvation. Could Gideon boast when he won the battle? Could Joshua boast when he took Jericho? He did have to take it didn’t he? He couldn’t just sit on his rear end. Could Moses boast on the east side of the Red Sea? People preach this crazy lesson about standing still. Moses and the people NEVER just stood still. They would have perished.

I’m going to ask a couple of questions. The answer to these questions will help us tremendously.
You have read the parable of the Sower? Right?
What is the seed?
Can the seed be sown without man?
I ask questions because I want people to come up with the answers on their own. I don’t want people thinking I am just feeding them my opinion.

 

[CNKW3]

Try reading Matt 27 and see how Jesus dealt with it...
13 Then said Pilate unto Him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
14 And He answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly."

No one can "show you the truth"...truth comes by revelation, not by showing.

John 20- "Jesus saith unto him, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

Why did Jesus not say a word? Will you answer me that..