Another Premillennial absurdity

[rwb]

AGREE = 100% TRUTH = We must FIRST be made spiritually Alive in Christ BEFORE we physically die.

Were the Saints who Jesus was speaking to in Rev 2:10 born-again/alive in Him?

The letter addresses the churches, and Christ says he who overcomes shall not be harmed by the second death. If they are spiritually alive in Him, then they will hear what the Spirit says. Those who shall not be harmed by the second death have part in the first resurrection in time. If they have part in the first resurrection, they have been born again. The binding of the devil does not prevent him from bringing great tribulation to the Churches on earth. Satan was bound by Christ's crucifixion and resurrection so that he is no longer able to deceive believers among the nations by holding them in bondage to fear of death. When people throughout the nations hear the Gospel and by grace through faith believe in Christ the power Satan once possessed to hold them in bondage of fear to death is broken forever. Believers are no longer deceived by Satan's lies. It is in this manner that Satan is bound. He was never bound to prevent him from bringing the Churches on earth suffering through great tribulation. Because great tribulation is always connected to proclaiming the Gospel.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[WPM]

AGREE = 100% TRUTH = We must FIRST be made spiritually Alive in Christ BEFORE we physically die.

Were the Saints who Jesus was speaking to in Rev 2:10 born-again/alive in Him?

In your opinion: are the living in Christ physically resurrected from the dead when Jesus comes - yes or no?

 

[Timtofly]

• Where in Revelation 2:10-11 does it even mention "the first resurrection"? You are obviously making it up as you go here.
• Rev 20:4-6 refers to the first resurrection of Christ - the only first resurrection in Scripture.

Those 2 passages have more corroboration between them, than what Amil offer.

 

[Timtofly]

You obviously have nothing. Isa 65 refers to the new heavens and the new earth.

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?

So there is offspring according to Isaiah 65 in the NHNE? I thought that is not possible in your future hypothesis?

Try reading Isaiah 65 as it is written instead of twisting it into your human understanding.

People will live like trees. They will have offspring. They will build, and never move to a different location. Their offspring will continue the process until the earth is subdued. Kind of hard to have offspring, if you demand there is no procreation.

 

[David in NJ]

The letter addresses the churches, and Christ says he who overcomes shall not be harmed by the second death. If they are spiritually alive in Him, then they will hear what the Spirit says. Those who shall not be harmed by the second death have part in the first resurrection in time. If they have part in the first resurrection, they have been born again. The binding of the devil does not prevent him from bringing great tribulation to the Churches on earth. Satan was bound by Christ's crucifixion and resurrection so that he is no longer able to deceive believers among the nations by holding them in bondage to fear of death. When people throughout the nations hear the Gospel and by grace through faith believe in Christ the power Satan once possessed to hold them in bondage of fear to death is broken forever. Believers are no longer deceived by Satan's lies. It is in this manner that Satan is bound. He was never bound to prevent him from bringing the Churches on earth suffering through great tribulation. Because great tribulation is always connected to proclaiming the Gospel.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Please answer the question pertaining only to the saints whom Christ said: "

"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you,
and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Were these saints born-again and in Christ?

 

[WPM]

So there is offspring according to Isaiah 65 in the NHNE? I thought that is not possible in your future hypothesis?

Try reading Isaiah 65 as it is written instead of twisting it into your human understanding.

People will live like trees. They will have offspring. They will build, and never move to a different location. Their offspring will continue the process until the earth is subdued. Kind of hard to have offspring, if you demand there is no procreation.

You are twisting the language to support Premil. This is talking about the NHNE. There is nothing you can do to change what the text says.

Isaiah 65:24 says, “They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.”

Isaiah is passionate in using synonymous parallelism. He also is passionate about employing the Hebrew word Lo' to tell us what will not be happening in the eternal state.

Isaiah 65:24 says,

They shall not (Lo') labour in vain
nor (Lo') bring forth [for] trouble

Let us remind ourselves that the word Lo' it is a negation. It is telling us what will not happen. It is not saying children will be born on the new earth as now, but that they will not be born.

the former shall not (Lo') be remembered,
nor (Lo') come into mind.

I am not sure where you see babies being birthed here. I feel you are imputing things into this reading that aren't there. Where does it say babes are born? It doesn't say they will have offspring, only that they will bring their offspring with them into the eternal state and that they will be blessed. That is just a reminder of the covenant promise that believers hold unto. I am sure you believe it is possible to bring our saved children with us to heaven?

Whilst there is much about eternity that has been concealed from the finite mind, we do have glimpses of what it will be like in Scripture. Our reading above is one such passage. In this reading we see the difference between our age and the age to come. In this age we labor much in vain. Also, through the fallen nature, we bring forth our progeny for trouble. Why? All men are born sinners and therefore prone to rebel and head for trouble. The Bible says that we are all “by nature the children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3). The new heavens and a new earth will be completely different. Our wearisome labours in this life will come to an end, all our service then will be joyous and tireless unto God. Moreover, childbirth shall be no more.

This is clearly telling us that the old corrupt temporal decaying arrangement is going to be replaced by the new perfect eternal regime. The promises in this prophecy in regard to the new heavens and new earth is not more of the same to dread but rather the opposite – a brand new arrangement free of death and decay.

 

[rwb]

Please answer the question pertaining only to the saints whom Christ said: "

"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you,
and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Were these saints born-again and in Christ?

It certainly appears they are! Because only believers would be faithful unto death.

 

[David in NJ]

It certainly appears they are! Because only believers would be faithful unto death.

CORRECT for two reasons:

#1 - as you stated = HE said be faithful (to HIM) unto death

#2 - If they were not saved then Christ would be preaching a false gospel = salvation thru our own suffering & death

 

[WPM]

So there is offspring according to Isaiah 65 in the NHNE? I thought that is not possible in your future hypothesis?

Try reading Isaiah 65 as it is written instead of twisting it into your human understanding.

People will live like trees. They will have offspring. They will build, and never move to a different location. Their offspring will continue the process until the earth is subdued. Kind of hard to have offspring, if you demand there is no procreation.

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?

 

[David in NJ]

It certainly appears they are! Because only believers would be faithful unto death.

Since Christ confirms that they are Believers in Him, Born-Again thru the Spirit of God,
what is the 'crown of Life' that He is promising them, since they already have Eternal Life in Him?

 

[rwb]

Since Christ confirms that they are Believers in Him, Born-Again thru the Spirit of God,
what is the 'crown of Life' that He is promising them, since they already have Eternal Life in Him?

It seems your questions are distracting from the topic we were having. What does your question have to do with our disagreement regarding the first resurrection? You have yet to acknowledge the first resurrection is NOT physical???

 

[David in NJ]

It seems your questions are distracting from the topic we were having. What does your question have to do with our disagreement regarding the first resurrection? You have yet to acknowledge the first resurrection is NOT physical???

The answer to my question is perfectly applicable to the topic and to the very question you just now posed.

 

[Timtofly]

I am sure you believe it is possible to bring our saved children with us to heaven?

Sorry, but every human has to accept God on their own individual acceptance. No spiritual grandchildren in heaven. It is you who twist Scripture to fit your Amil paradigm. No there is no ethnic guarantee your offspring will accept Christ. You should know that with your use of Spiritual Israel, that replaced physical Israel.

But you seem to reject this future Millennium, at all points, even if it means changing Scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

It seems your questions are distracting from the topic we were having. What does your question have to do with our disagreement regarding the first resurrection? You have yet to acknowledge the first resurrection is NOT physical???

The question below is perfectly applicable to the topic and to the very question you just now posed.

Since Christ confirms that they are Believers in Him, Born-Again thru the Spirit of God,
what is the 'crown of Life' that He is promising them, since they already have Eternal Life in Him?

Do not be afraid. Jesus loves you and His answer supplies to us confidence in the Scripture.

 

[WPM]

Sorry, but every human has to accept God on their own individual acceptance. No spiritual grandchildren in heaven. It is you who twist Scripture to fit your Amil paradigm. No there is no ethnic guarantee your offspring will accept Christ. You should know that with your use of Spiritual Israel, that replaced physical Israel.

But you seem to reject this future Millennium, at all points, even if it means changing Scripture.

You are so difficult you cannot even understand plain simple language. No wonder your theology is messed up. No wonder you avoid the obvious.

 

[WPM]

It seems your questions are distracting from the topic we were having. What does your question have to do with our disagreement regarding the first resurrection? You have yet to acknowledge the first resurrection is NOT physical???

Bro, he is trying to divert because his position was exposed and he had no answer. He could not even answer a simple query I asked him. To do so honestly would have exposed his position.

 

[Timtofly]

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?

What is the point if no one is born?

You have literally removed all those humans from existence, because you won't even allow them a human birth.

If no one is born after 1,000 years on earth, what is the point of bringing earth under subjection to Christ?

It is certainly not under subjection now, but under the burden of sin.

 

[Timtofly]

You are so difficult you cannot even understand plain simple language. No wonder your theology is messed up. No wonder you avoid the obvious.

No wonder you don't even have a point. It is your amil error we are dealing with, not my pre-mill understanding of Scripture.

 

[WPM]

What is the point if no one is born?

You have literally removed all those humans from existence, because you won't even allow them a human birth.

If no one is born after 1,000 years on earth, what is the point of bringing earth under subjection to Christ?

It is certainly not under subjection now, but under the burden of sin.

You really do not get it. Address these simple questions that destroy your sinless sinners nonsense.

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?

 

[WPM]

No one wonder you don't even have a point. It is your amil error we are dealing with, not my pre-mill understanding of Scripture.

Try and divert away from these questions that expose your thesis all you want but it is showing everyone that your beliefs are vain imaginations. Your journey has finally come to a crunching halt.