Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope no deflection.

Actually edited the response:
This is irrelevant. The topic is abiding is necessary for eternal life bc the life is only in Christ (1 Jn 2:28, 3:23, 24, 5:11,21).
The fact that we must be forgiven doesn't disprove that God expects holiness, nor that if we don't walk in holiness He has threatened to remove His Spirit (Ps 51:11; 1 Th 4:8; 1 Jn 3:23,24).

What is "typical" is you want to see a mutual exclusivity where there is none.

You still deflected..

You did not answer my post or even comment on it, You skipped right over it

its ok, You do it all the time.. You have to. Because you have no answer.. Thats why I do not fear you, or normally just ignore you. Because you show yourself to be untrustworthy.. You do not need my help

Have you ever really imagined yourself standing before God being judged? I have! I do! I think it's foolishness to think we know how God will judge us when we stand before Him. When the inner workings of our hearts are revealed. When all pretence is over.

I agree with you, it's easy to get caught up in thinking that you are OK when you are not, since that's where the flesh wants to lead us. Into allowing the fleshy way, thinking it's spiritual. Do we think, that can't happen to me?

Who is able to give a Biblical definition of exactly what "Abiding in Christ" means?

Much love!

I look at people in scripture who came to the presence of even an angel and fell flat on their faces. Godly men of old. Unable to even look up. Scared to death.

why? Because they knew they were in the presence of perfection. And they were sinful people who did not belong..

God told Moses if he saw him he would die.. This is why. The flawed human heart could not take the fear which comes from Guilt of knowing what you deserve.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Already disproved this : branches that don't abide are thrown in the fire. You have had no rebuttal to this for a long time already.

That's not the point. You're assuming a method of abiding, all I need to do to disprove OSAS is show abiding is necessary and that some do not abide, as I've done.

Please stop. You have not proven or disproven anything.

if this is all you have to offer I will move on..Like I usually do anyway.

and PS. You make be able to disprove the doctrine of OSAS from calvinism, But you will never disprove eternal security given to ALL of Gods children..

Try as you may, God keeps his promises.. And you can not counter that fact

 

[GracePeace]

You still deflected..

You did not answer my post or even comment on it, You skipped right over it

its ok, You do it all the time.. You have to. Because you have no answer.. Thats why I do not fear you, or normally just ignore you. Because you show yourself to be untrustworthy.. You do not need my help

I look at people in scripture who came to the presence of even an angel and fell flat on their faces. Godly men of old. Unable to even look up. Scared to death.

why? Because they knew they were in the presence of perfection. And they were sinful people who did not belong..

God told Moses if he saw him he would die.. This is why. The flawed human heart could not take the fear which comes from Guilt of knowing what you deserve.

Nope, no need to deflect, since I actually agree with what you said--but it's entirely beside the point.

 

[GracePeace]

Please stop. You have not proven or disproven anything.

if this is all you have to offer I will move on..Like I usually do anyway.

and PS. You make be able to disprove the doctrine of OSAS from calvinism, But you will never disprove eternal security given to ALL of Gods children..

Try as you may, God keeps his promises.. And you can not counter that fact

Just as an example of how you're wrong on this : You haven't had an answer for your error in saying being a branch that is cut off and thrown in the fire isn't a salvific matter for the longest time.

 

[marks]

Already disproved this : branches that don't abide are thrown in the fire. You have had no rebuttal to this for a long time already.

That's not the point. You're assuming a method of abiding, all I need to do to disprove OSAS is show abiding is necessary and that some do not abide, as I've done.

The branches gathered to be burned? I'm thinking that you are thinking that the branches that did not abide once had been abiding in Christ? Is that right?

I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I look at people in scripture who came to the presence of even an angel and fell flat on their faces. Godly men of old. Unable to even look up. Scared to death.

why? Because they knew they were in the presence of perfection. And they were sinful people who did not belong..

God told Moses if he saw him he would die.. This is why. The flawed human heart could not take the fear which comes from Guilt of knowing what you deserve.

It's like having a "Peter" moment, realizing the holiness of the God Who embraces . . . me . . . how could He? Only through Christ!

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

The branches gathered to be burned? I'm thinking that you are thinking that the branches that did not abide once had been abiding in Christ? Is that right?

I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

Much love!

The branches issue from the Vine, so of course they at one time had life. The issue is they don't abide, just as John warns the little children to abide in Christ (so they won't be ashamed at His appearance), not be led away by idolatry (1 Jn 2:28, 5:21).

 

[GracePeace]

The branches gathered to be burned? I'm thinking that you are thinking that the branches that did not abide once had been abiding in Christ? Is that right?

I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

Much love!

In Ro 11, the wild olive branch is the Gentile believer, and, yes, they're grafted in to His cultivated olive tree by faith.

 

[GracePeace]

TTYL guys

 

[marks]

The branches issue from the Vine, so of course they at one time had life. The issue is they don't abide, just as John warns the little children to abide in Christ (so they won't be ashamed at His appearance), not be led away by idolatry (1 Jn 2:28, 5:21).

So I was right then, you are inferring that the branch was previous in Christ, and the stopped being in Christ. Wouldn't that mean they were no longer "connected to the vine"? Having stopped abiding in Christ? Or is your thinking on this different?

The reason I ask is because this isn't really clearly stated in the passage. What concerns me is how it would contradict passages that are plainly stated.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In Ro 11, the wild olive branch is the Gentile believer, and, yes, they're grafted in to His cultivated olive tree by faith.

Right, so being called a branch doesn't mean a person is born again.

Romans 11:23 KJV
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

"branches" seems to be being used as an idiom for people referring to their dependency on God regardless of their salvation status. Such as these here who are able to be grafted in again.

In the same way, "in Christ" is used in a great many places referring to the born again, and the relation of a born again person to Christ, being "in Him."

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, no need to deflect, since I actually agree with what you said--but it's entirely beside the point.

Please tell me what you agreed to

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just as an example of how you're wrong on this : You haven't had an answer for your error in saying being a branch that is cut off and thrown in the fire isn't a salvific matter for the longest time.

Its not

Its about producing fruit. Not being saved.

I am going to copy this post so next time you say I did nto answer you I can show you to be as deciever

 

[Zao is life]

Yeah, idk why you see mutual exclusivity between one sin meriting death (eg, Adam) and the fact that we're called to walk in faith, and when we don't, we sin, and are not justified but condemned (as also James teaches), because we're not revealing God's righteousness from faith to faith (Ro 1:5,16,17, 14:5,23) whereby we would otherwise be justified.

Yes. Adam had a choice between believing the Word of God which ended with the words ".. you will surely die" and the word which said, "You will not surely die"

There was a motive - not merely being made in the image and likeness of God, but becoming like God Himself.

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version.

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

Adam's eternal life was in His Creator, who breathed His Spirit into Adam. Adam (creature) did not have that life in himself.

The lie from the beginning was "You will not surely die" and "You will be like God" (who alone possesses immortality and who alone has life in Himself).

This is why your thread is so important, IMO. Believing the Word and remaining in the Vine:

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." (John 15:6-7).​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. Adam had a choice between believing the Word of God which ended with the words ".. you will surely die" and the word which said, "You will not surely die"

There was a motive - not merely being made in the image and likeness of God, but becoming like God Himself.

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version.

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

Adam's eternal life was in His Creator, who breathed His Spirit into Adam. Adam (creature) did not have that life in himself.

The lie from the beginning was "You will not surely die" and "You will be like God" (who alone possesses immortality and who alone has life in Himself).

This is why your thread is so important, IMO. Believing the Word and remaining in the Vine:

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." (John 15:6-7).​

This is legalism

this is trying to keep yourself saved. This is not allowing God to save you.

I can not attach myself to the vine, I can not keep myself attached to the vine, it is God who does it all.

And I am assured of this promise, my confidence in the same confidence that paul had. that he who began a good work in me will complete it. It did not say he might complete it. or I could stop him from completing it, He said he will

thats why the OP is so dangerous. It is trying to make people credit for their own salvation. And denies the power of God to change people.

 

[Zao is life]

This is legalism

this is trying to keep yourself saved. This is not allowing God to save you.

I can not attach myself to the vine, I can not keep myself attached to the vine, it is God who does it all.

And I am assured of this promise, my confidence in the same confidence that paul had. that he who began a good work in me will complete it. It did not say he might complete it. or I could stop him from completing it, He said he will

thats why the OP is so dangerous. It is trying to make people credit for their own salvation. And denies the power of God to change people.

I don't believe you are correct in what you assume the OP to be saying. It's talking about trusting in God because only God can complete the work began in the believer.

What you said above is tantamount to saying that Jesus was being legalistic by telling those who believe in Him to abide in Him.

The poster of the OP did not snatch scriptures out of the air. Jesus uttered those words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't believe you are correct in what you assume the OP to be saying. It's talking about trusting in God because only God can complete the work began in the believer.

thats not what the op is saying

What you said above is tantamount to saying that Jesus was being legalistic by telling those who believe in Him to abide in Him.

I teach people to abide in him. and I am not legalistic.

so this thinking is flawed

The poster of the OP did not snatch scriptures out of the air. Jesus uttered those words.

I can make the word say whatever I want. just because I can pick and chose verses that appear to support me does nto make those verses in my textual support valid or true.

He is saying we must abide or we will lose salvation.

that is not in scripture.

 

[Zao is life]

thats not what the op is saying

I teach people to abide in him. and I am not legalistic.

so this thinking is flawed

I can make the word say whatever I want. just because I can pick and chose verses that appear to support me does nto make those verses in my textual support valid or true.

He is saying we must abide or we will lose salvation.

that is not in scripture.

It is in scripture. From the very beginning when Adam did not abide in the Word of God. In the very verse where Jesus says abide in the Vine He says if you don't, you will be cast off as a branch.

There's no OSAS in scripture. Hebrews also tells us about what happens to someone who draws back.

@Eternally Grateful What in your opinion was Jesus saying would happen to someone who does not abide in Him?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

 

[Zao is life]

I can make the word say whatever I want.

You should consider if that is not what you are doing with regards to OSAS.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes. Adam had a choice between believing the Word of God which ended with the words ".. you will surely die" and the word which said, "You will not surely die"

There was a motive - not merely being made in the image and likeness of God, but becoming like God Himself.

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version.

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

Adam's eternal life was in His Creator, who breathed His Spirit into Adam. Adam (creature) did not have that life in himself.

The lie from the beginning was "You will not surely die" and "You will be like God" (who alone possesses immortality and who alone has life in Himself).

This is why your thread is so important, IMO. Believing the Word and remaining in the Vine:

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." (John 15:6-7).​

He raised a valid point, it just was beside the point. Irrelevant.