22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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Truther

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They are sequential. You must first be saved from sin before you can be saved from hell.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God ..

Period.

No saved, unsaved, then resaved.
 

Truther

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You didn't specifically address anything I said. This is a waste of time.
You need to really teach what you think for all to see, rather than talk about passages.

Break them down sentence by sentence with your redefinitions for us.
 

Truther

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Weak argument. Do you think that what is described in Revelation 12 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11?
The book of Rev is definitely written in chronological order.

The 7 churches are in the first 3 chapters and the end of the world/new world in the last 3.

All leads up accordingly.
 

Truther

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Okay, maybe we're actually getting somewhere here. So, you agree with me that the way in which the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night is when Jesus comes and destroys His enemies, right?

What does 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicate about the scope of destruction that occurs at that time? It will be global and will even burn up the earth, right? That's why Revelation 19:17-18 talks about the destruction of all people "both free and bond, both small and great".
Eventually.

Remember, the day is preceded by this verse...


8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Get the hint?
 

Truther

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Yes, I did. I was baptized in a lake. But, that is not the topic of this thread, so I don't really want to derail this thread with that topic. Feel free to create a new thread in the Christian Theology forum or Controversial Topics forum and I'd be glad to discuss why your understanding of water baptism in relation to salvation is wrong there.
Was the name of Jesus invoked over you upon immersion or Father/Son/Spirit?
 

Truther

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Stop derailing this topic.
I'm not, just getting to know where you stand.

Kinda like arguing the validity of the Bible with someone.

Need to know a little background first.
 

Truther

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Oneness Pentecostalism, The Cult Of (Robert T. McAlister) In 1913
I am not oneness.

I wouldn't call the folks that obey Acts 2:38 a cult when you refuse it altogether.

Thou art the man.
 

Truther

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Oneness Pentecostalism, The Cult Of (Robert T. McAlister) In 1913
They are more honest than the RCC daughters(trins) that hate water baptism, mocking(by debunking) Mark16:16, Acts 2:38, 8:16 and 19:5.
 

Truther

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He that believeth and is baptized by the Holy Spirit shall be saved! He that believeth without baptism of the Holy Spirit, is of their father, the Devil.

James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

We are baptized in water as a means of becoming separated from the world of unbelief. After water baptism we belong outwardly to the body (physically) of Christ, the church. The water only cleanses outwardly but cannot cleanse our conscience. Only baptism of the Holy Spirit, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience has the power to set us free from the penalty of death that is the result of sinning. We can be plunged, dipped, poured or sprinkled with water, but unless the water is pure and undefiled of the Holy Spirit, our sins shall still condemn us. There is no physical water on earth that can change our hearts and give us full assurance of faith.

Hebrews 10:22 (KJV) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
I see now...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


LOL
 

rwb

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The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God ..

How does water baptism create in us a good conscience toward God? It does not! That's why the verse says it is not by water which would only put away filth of the flesh. "Ye must be born again"! This is baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes from Christ, not from outward dunking, or sprinkling of water outwardly. The cleansing MUST be inward through the Spirit of Christ in us.
 

rwb

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I see now...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


LOL

How do you reconcile the need to be baptized in water to be saved with what is written in chapter 16? Here is taught one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE being baptized with water. How can that be if you are correct and one must be baptized in water for salvation? If you would stop trying to force your doctrine based upon one verse from Scripture, but instead allow the whole of Scripture to rightly divide, who knows you might come to correctly understand?

Acts 16:30-34 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
 

rwb

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I see now...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


LOL

Here's another passage from Scripture that you MUST reconcile or be accused of forcing contradiction into the Sacred Scripture. Notice the eunuch first believed then Philip baptized him with water. Even telling him he could only be water baptized if he already believed with all his heart.

Acts 8:35-38 (KJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
 

rwb

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I see now...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized BY THE HOLY GHOST every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


LOL

Here's another passage proving faith/believing comes before being baptized in water, because it is not water baptism that saves.

Acts 16:14-15 (KJV) And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Your teaching salvation through physical water is a contradictory train-wreck!
 
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Truther

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How does water baptism create in us a good conscience toward God?
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God ..

Now you know.
 

Truther

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How do you reconcile the need to be baptized in water to be saved with what is written in chapter 16? Here is taught one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE being baptized with water. How can that be if you are correct and one must be baptized in water for salvation? If you would stop trying to force your doctrine based upon one verse from Scripture, but instead allow the whole of Scripture to rightly divide, who knows you might come to correctly understand?

Acts 16:30-34 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


As per...

See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest
. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water,...
 
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