22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[rwb]

I will simplify this for you.

2000 years ago to present......some.

Future...all.

There, no contradiction.

Think when you read Romans 11.

It seems you're the one needing to think when you read the words of Paul. Your doctrine turns the message from Paul into a contradiction!

Let me simplify for you! Paul is very clear because he does not contradict himself, only the faithful remnant from Israel shall be saved, together with faithful Gentiles, and together they are the "Israel of God"! Not an ethnic people, but a people of God!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Rev 11 and the great whore of Rev 18 are 2 separate cities.

Rev 11 is Jerusalem and Rev 18 is the RCC.

As usual - your Biblical 'knowlwedge" is anything but . . .
The Bible states the following about the Whore of Babylon:

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill

- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26) along with pagan Rome.

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City" that became a “Whore”
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

5. Apostate Jerusalem has the blood of God’s holy people on her hands (prophets and martyrs) – NOT the Catholic Church (Rev 17:6, Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34, Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).

What happened in 70 AD??
The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by pagan Rome.

 

[WPM]

Yeah. Another practitioner of interpretation by regurgitation.

Good luck in getting a direct answer from him. And I do not believe in luck. Lol

 

[Truth7t7]

There are 3 types of baptism, not 1 - baptism into Christ upon salvation, baptism in water, and baptism in the Holy Ghost. Anyway, that is not the topic here. You are diverting this thread. Please address the multiples holes in your theology that you have skipped around since you visited.

"False"

It was a resurrection at salvation, now your trying to sell its a baptism at salvation tooooo?

Real Big Smiles!

 

[covenantee]

"False"

It was a resurrection at salvation, now your trying to sell its a baptism at salvation tooooo?

Real Big Smiles!

Off topic, go elsewhere.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

..what we have here is a failure to communicate.

What we have here is a failure by you to take scripture like Romans 9:6-8 into account when interpreting that passage.

How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

I helped you out by color coding the contrast between the two Israels Paul referenced here.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul was saying that all the saved will be saved?

He was saying that all those who are part of spiritual Israel will be saved, not national Israel. Since there are two Israels (see Romans 9:6-8) then you need to determine in which Israel are all saved? The one where being a part of it isn't dependent on one's nationality or the one where being a part of it does depend on one's nationality?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

C'mon man!

LOL

I'm glad you found it to be funny, Falser.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you not have the ability to address the multiple contradictions in your heresy? You attempt to explain away New Testament truth with your misunderstanding of the Old Testament. That sums up your theology. It lies in pieces tonight. Your rejection of the new covenant is damning!

Agree. I have to question which cult someone is part of when they deny that the new covenant is in full effect yet. Understanding that the new covenant was put into full effect by the blood of Christ long ago is a fundamental Christian belief.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see, only the saved are all, and not all.

All does not mean all but some?

It must be nice to be saved before being saved.

You're not even trying to understand the point being made. All who are part of spiritual Israel are saved and all who become part of spiritual Israel in the future will be saved as well. This isn't hard unless you are lacking in discernment.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"False"

It was a resurrection at salvation, now your trying to sell its a baptism at salvation tooooo?

Real Big Smiles!

That is what scripture teaches. But, of course, you have no understanding of scripture.

Colossians 2:11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

It is quite clear that you have no understanding of anything that Paul wrote about here. Pray for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

 

[Truther]

There are 3 types of baptism, not 1 - baptism into Christ upon salvation, baptism in water, and baptism in the Holy Ghost. Anyway, that is not the topic here. You are diverting this thread. Please address the multiples holes in your theology that you have skipped around since you visited.

Question: what would you have answered the 3000 if you were Peter?....


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Truther]

You are avoiding what he said again. That is all you do.

You don't see some...then all here?....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, (SOME)until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved(ALL)

 

[Truther]

What? Are you suggesting that those that hate Christ are God's chosen people?

Once again you avoided the Scripture presented and the many arguments. That is who you are and that is what you do. It is a waste of time discussing with you. You are out of your depth here. A 11 years old would give a deeper response.

Jews hate Christ or don't believe in him?

Sinners hate Christ or don't believe?

All other religions hate Christ or don't understand him?

Did you hate Christ before you converted?

How much did you hate him, a little or alot?

Funny, I was raised as an unbelieving, unsaved Catholic but didn't hate him.

Just remember, the actual murderers of Christ were the FIRST to obey Peter....


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


But you will not obey him.

They are better than you.

 

[Truther]

Highlight the word "they" so you don't miss it.

Just can't wrap your head around the Scriptural identity of "all Israel", can you.

Where I come from, ALL means ALL.

You would make a terrible employee when your boss says to complete all your tasks, and you think it means some tasks.

 

[Truther]

It seems you're the one needing to think when you read the words of Paul. Your doctrine turns the message from Paul into a contradiction!

Let me simplify for you! Paul is very clear because he does not contradict himself, only the faithful remnant from Israel shall be saved, together with faithful Gentiles, and together they are the "Israel of God"! Not an ethnic people, but a people of God!

You really don't want all Israel to be saved, do you?...


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Oh. boy!

 

[Truther]

As usual - your Biblical 'knowlwedge" is anything but . . .
The Bible states the following about the Whore of Babylon:

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill

- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills: Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet, Mount of Corruption, Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26) along with pagan Rome.

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City" that became a “Whore”
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

5. Apostate Jerusalem has the blood of God’s holy people on her hands (prophets and martyrs) – NOT the Catholic Church (Rev 17:6, Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34, Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

We read that the “ten horns” and the beast will hate the prostitute. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire” (Rev. 17:16).

What happened in 70 AD??
The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by pagan Rome.

The RCC is the great whore.

It is the mother of all Acts 2:38 skippers.

It invented Acts skipping.

It caused folks to skip water baptism entirely with the Acts 2:38 skipping spell on her daughters.

It is ecclesiastic Rome as a 4th world power(iron/clay)

Thou art the man.

 

[Truther]

What we have here is a failure by you to take scripture like Romans 9:6-8 into account when interpreting that passage.

How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

I helped you out by color coding the contrast between the two Israels Paul referenced here.

You still don't get it.

That was 2000 years ago.

Future national Israel will be saved, whether you Amils and preterists like it or not.

Now take this....


After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Truther]

He was saying that all those who are part of spiritual Israel will be saved, not national Israel. Since there are two Israels (see Romans 9:6-8) then you need to determine in which Israel are all saved? The one where being a part of it isn't dependent on one's nationality or the one where being a part of it does depend on one's nationality?

Not all, but some?...


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now repeat after me...

All.

 

[Truther]

You're not even trying to understand the point being made. All who are part of spiritual Israel are saved and all who become part of spiritual Israel in the future will be saved as well. This isn't hard unless you are lacking in discernment.

Here's the deal.

You only think a few Jews can or have been saved and voluntarily blind yourself to the greatest promise God has ever made to a human being since the world began.

The promise to the fathers.

You tweak it to mean a promise to YOU.

What a messed up belief system.

There is a promise keeper(God to the fathers).

And promise thieves(Amils and preterists).

You can protest the fulfillment of the promise all you want(as satan does to try to destroy Israel and the fulfillment of the promise in the tribulation), but you will never pull it off.

The promise is against you.

You are on the wrong team.

Read Zech 14....

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.




You lose.