22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Same applies to your claims of a (Spiritual Resurrection) and that (The Beast) won't be a future human man

Name-calling will not cut it.

So, how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

 

[Truth7t7]

Name-calling will not cut it.

So, how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

Nobody is name calling, your throwing rocks in a glass house

Reformed Preterist Eschatology Is In The Same Lineage As Pre-Millennialism, They Are Both Deception

 

[WPM]

Nobody is name calling, your throwing rocks in a glass house

Reformed Preterist Eschatology Is In The Same Lineage As Pre-Millennialism, They Are Both Deception

The reason you will not address the simple questions presented is that they expose the fallacy of your reasoning. Constant avoidance (which you do) testifies to the impotence of an argument, not its strength. Unfortunately, you habitually make wild claims that you cannot biblically support. This does not commend your teachings.

So, how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

 

[Truth7t7]

The reason you will not address the simple questions presented is that they expose the fallacy of your reasoning. Constant avoidance (which you do) testifies to the impotence of an argument, not its strength. Unfortunately, you habitually make wild claims that you cannot biblically support. This does not commend your teachings.

So, how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

Your claims have been addressed,, Once Again Your on the childish troll now, bending and twisting to suit your needs in chaotic confusion

You have been shown several times the 7 mountains represent the Mounts in Jerusalem, who is the "Whore"

The eighth king represents "The Beast"

The ten kings are separate from "The Beast" who I believe will be quickly recognized as 10 kings representing the ten lost tribes of Israel

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[Truther]

That sums up your theological position. You have nothing to bring to the table apart from your usual boring mantra: what saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20?

Rev 20 is boring?

I guess that is why Amils redefine the chapter?

 

[Truther]

The reason you will not address the simple questions presented is that they expose the fallacy of your reasoning. Constant avoidance (which you do) testifies to the impotence of an argument, not its strength. Unfortunately, you habitually make wild claims that you cannot biblically support. This does not commend your teachings.

So, how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

That is not the man, but the antichrist is among them.

 

[Truther]

Your claims have been addressed,, Once Again Your on the childish troll now, bending and twisting to suit your needs in chaotic confusion

You have been shown several times the 7 mountains represent the Mounts in Jerusalem, who is the "Whore"

The eighth king represents "The Beast"

The ten kings are separate from "The Beast" who I believe will be quickly recognized as 10 kings representing the ten lost tribes of Israel

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Rev 11 and the great whore of Rev 18 are 2 separate cities.

Rev 11 is Jerusalem and Rev 18 is the RCC.

 

[WPM]

Your claims have been addressed,, Once Again Your on the childish troll now, bending and twisting to suit your needs in chaotic confusion

You have been shown several times the 7 mountains represent the Mounts in Jerusalem, who is the "Whore"

The eighth king represents "The Beast"

The ten kings are separate from "The Beast" who I believe will be quickly recognized as 10 kings representing the ten lost tribes of Israel

I will try and ignore your petty and unnecessary name-calling.

Revelation 13:1 shows the “beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns.”

This is obviously a symbolic depiction of a spiritual entity that has been on the go long before John. This couldn't be clearer. How can a literal human have 7 literal heads (which you say are 7 mountains in Jerusalem) and 10 horns (which you say represent 10 kings)? This is totally absurd. It is nonsensical. I suspect you know that by your constant avoidance of this.

The seven heads, which are mountains, represent seven worldly kingdoms. Of these 7 kingdoms, 5 are prior to John’s prophecy, 1 present to him and 1 is yet future. Moreover, the 7th kingdom is predicted to manifest for “a short space.” Interestingly, there is an 8th kingdom. This is the beast himself, obviously rising up in his own right from the restraint placed upon him (and the demonic realm) after the cross rather than in a delegated sense (through other evil earthly empires) like before.

The beast embodies the 7 previous kingdoms; this beast “was” before John – obviously manifesting through the 5 tributary kingdoms before John, he “is” to John in the form of the 1 kingdom in existence at the time of John, and 1 is still future to John as it has “not yet come.” Additional to this we learn, “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” The 7 kingdoms are 7 heads on the beast – thus the beast is described as being “of the seven.” The 7 heads are part of this being. The number seven is significant as it normally represents completeness in Scripture. This book places the beast within the complete scheme of this dark antichrist reign.

This beast obviously represents the overall influence of Satan from which all the other individual kingdoms emanate throughout time. At the cross the beast went “into perdition” being curtailed in his wholesale deluding of the Gentile people. Notwithstanding, the beast is associated with the reign of evil on this earth throughout this intra-Advent period, although restrained from what the beast would have desired through the Gospel influence. Prior to the end this beast is released from his spiritual restraints and moves to the fore. This is his time to finally flex his muscles. This is his final throw.

 

[WPM]

That is not the man, but the antichrist is among them.

So the beast is not antichrist?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The scripture below speaks of dead living again, it states when it happens (Thousand Years Finished) and it identifies it as (The First Resurrection)

The KJV translators did a fantastic job below, 412 years and going strong, you aren't going to change this biblical truth before my eyes

Revelation 20:5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You have no discernment. That verse is talking about "the REST of the dead". Everyone except you can recognize that "the rest of the dead" are unbelievers. They are being contrasted with other dead people mentioned before that. Who would that be? The dead believers that John saw (he saw their souls). They are the ones who have part in the first resurrection, not the rest of the dead. The rest of the dead are those who end up being cast into the lake of fire.

 

[WPM]

Rev 20 is boring?

I guess that is why Amils redefine the chapter?

No, your obsession with Revelation 20 is boring and wrong. You cannot seem to let the rest of Scripture reveal the subject of eschatology to you. Premillennialist hermeneutics are horrible. They absolutely butcher the essential principle of corroboration. You interpret (explain away) every passage in Holy Writ by your faulty private interpretation of one highly symbolic chapter (Revelation 20), which just so happens to be the only passage in the Old or New Testament that mentions a thousand years reign. Premils are fixated with Revelation 20. They view all Scripture through that lens. This is ridiculous hermeneutics.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This will help my Amil friend...


13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.(THE ANTICHRIST RISING FROM THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD)

2 And the beast(ANTICHRIST) which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(CUNNING/POWERFUL PERSON) : and the dragon(SATAN) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority(AS WORLD RULER).

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.(PERFOMED A MIRACLE)

4 And they worshipped the dragon(SATAN) which gave power unto the beast(ANTICHRIST) : and they worshipped the beast(ANTICHRIST), saying, Who is like unto the beast(ANTICHRIST)? who is able to make war with him(MALE HUMAN PERSON)?


Amils are baffled by this.

New converts can figure this out their first week of Bible reading.

This is completely beside the point of what was being discussed. Regardless of what the dragon and beast, etc. represent, the fact is that those are symbolic terms and not literal. The book has many symbolic terms like that, but you are trying to say that it's mostly literal. No, it is not. What you posted here does not support that claim at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1: Rev 20

2: Rev 20(I noticed you already knew answer 1)

3: Rev 19-20

4: Zech 14, Isaiah 1 Cor 15 etc.

5: Rev 20.

I thought you read these chapters?

Those are the easiest questions ever asked.

Why don't you actually answer them then? In all 5 questions he was asking for scripture BESIDES Revelation 20. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is abstract to you?...

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No, the point was that it's symbolic. That's why I bolded the word "symbolic" in that definition.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, your obsession with Revelation 20 is boring and wrong. You cannot seem to let the rest of Scripture reveal the subject of eschatology to you. Premillennialist hermeneutics are horrible. They absolutely butcher the essential principle of corroboration. You interpret (explain away) every passage in Holy Writ by your faulty private interpretation of one highly symbolic chapter (Revelation 20), which just so happens to be the only passage in the Old or New Testament that mentions a thousand years reign. Premils are fixated with Revelation 20. They view all Scripture through that lens. This is ridiculous hermeneutics.

This is really what it all boils down to. Premils twist the rest of scripture in light of their hyper-literal interpretation of Revelation 20 while Amils interpret Revelation 20 in light of the rest of scripture including straightforward scripture like Matthew 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Acts 17:30-31, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Rev 1:5-6.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think you never read Rev 20, right?

You clearly have never read Revelation 20 carefully while keeping in mind that you should not contradict any other scripture when interpreting it. Your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts many other scriptures which talk about the timing of Christ's reign, the timing of Satan's binding and the timing of the resurrection of the dead and the day of judgment.

 

[Truther]

So the beast is not antichrist?

Same thing

 

[Truther]

No, your obsession with Revelation 20 is boring and wrong. You cannot seem to let the rest of Scripture reveal the subject of eschatology to you. Premillennialist hermeneutics are horrible. They absolutely butcher the essential principle of corroboration. You interpret (explain away) every passage in Holy Writ by your faulty private interpretation of one highly symbolic chapter (Revelation 20), which just so happens to be the only passage in the Old or New Testament that mentions a thousand years reign. Premils are fixated with Revelation 20. They view all Scripture through that lens. This is ridiculous hermeneutics.

Do you only redefine Rev or do you also redefine the rest of the prophecies?

 

[Truther]

This is completely beside the point of what was being discussed. Regardless of what the dragon and beast, etc. represent, the fact is that those are symbolic terms and not literal. The book has many symbolic terms like that, but you are trying to say that it's mostly literal. No, it is not. What you posted here does not support that claim at all.

You are treading in shark infested waters, as you redefine the literal passage.

Your assignment is to find signs, not redefine.

You failed the class this morning.

 

[Truther]

Why don't you actually answer them then? In all 5 questions he was asking for scripture BESIDES Revelation 20. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

Pop a question 1 at a time and I will gladly answer it.

Clogging up a single, page long post causes folks to miss main points.