22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Taken]

They are. But Jesus is in heaven. Where is your Scripture in Rev 20 that teaches He is on earth?

Rev 2:

[18] And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
[19] I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
[20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
[24] But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[25] But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
[28] And I will give him the morning star.
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches

Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 Simple Questions that only require One or Two words to answer.
Can you answer?

1) Who shall experience “Great Tribulation”?

2) Who shall “live and reign over the Nations WITH Christ”?

3) How Long shall “(The Who identified in question 3, ) be Ruling the Nations WITH Christ ?

4) Who shall be Bound for 1,000 years?

5) Where Are The Nations Location?

 

[WPM]

Rev 2:

[18] And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
[19] I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
[20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
[24] But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[25] But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
[26] And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
[28] And I will give him the morning star.
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches

Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

2+2=4, not 22. Jesus is coming to judge the nations not reign on earth for 1000 years. You failed to support your claims in Rev 20 as I requested. Because it does not exist there. You forcing him to the text. Revelation 20 take us right back to the first advent. You falsely glue them together to support your error.

5 Simple Questions that only require One or Two words to answer.
Can you answer?

1) Who shall experience “Great Tribulation”?

This occurred in AD70.

2) Who shall “live and reign over the Nations WITH Christ”?

Jesus reigns at the right hand of majesty. The redeemed are reigning with Him.

3) How Long shall “(The Who identified in question 3, ) be Ruling the Nations WITH Christ ?

During the intra-Advent period (a long time).

4) Who shall be Bound for 1,000 years?

Satan has been spiritual bound since the first advent.

5) Where Are The Nations Location?

The nations are on earth at the moment but will be destroyed when He comes.

 

[Truther]

Where does it say this is on earth?

...
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,...


Keep in mind, the saints returned with Christ to earth in the previous chapter. They did not return to heaven.

 

[WPM]

...
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,...


Keep in mind, the saints returned with Christ to earth in the previous chapter. They did not return to heaven.

You did not answer my question: where does it say Jesus is on earth in Rev 20?

This above is where you and Premils err. Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

This is horrible hermeneutics.

This thesis totally contradicts numerous scriptural passages that show the second coming to be the end. You are building your whole theological edifice upon a notable preconceived error: that Rev 20 is yet future. That is the sole grounds of your thesis. But you have zero corroboration for that because every second coming passage we look at is climactic. It involves a general resurrection and a general judgment. It does not allow for 2 resurrection days or 2 judgment days.

 

[Taken]

Jesus is coming to judge the nations not reign on earth for 1000 years.

Every Seal is a result of the Lambs Judgement, WHO is IN Heaven, Sending Down Upon the Earth inhabitants who rejected the Lamb.
Men on Earth Will be Killed….
Some continuing to reject the Lamb, Some choosing to accept the Lamb and die, in belief, and be Saved.

Trumps are Warnings, The Devil will be given Power to Kill, Some will continue to die Having chosen to believe and be Saved and Some will continue to Reject the Lamb.

From a position sitting on a Cloud (which is not ON Earth…the Son of Man shall be seen by all eyes of men that have ever lived. The Son shall reap the Earth, Killing Bodys While Separating and Saving SOULS of believers from Rejectors.

Saved souls Of dead Bodys from the Seals -Through the Trumps All rise to Heaven….the Remainder Mortal Rejectors then Suffer the Vials Judgements Sent Down from Heaven, and then are Bodily Killed, their unsaved souls Sent to Hell, for 1,000 years to wait for judgement.

Satan and his band of fallen angels are confined to hell for 1,000 years.

A few who believed, remaining in their mortal bodies and escaped Death, shall remain ON the Earth….then Shall Christ the Lord Return to Earth, WITH the bodily dead (whose soul is saved, spirit quickened, and body raised in glory) to claim THEIR INHERITANCE…Abraham’s Promised Land, and Christ Jesus shall Claim His Inheritance….Abraham’s Promised Land AND King David’s Throne.

ALL who are Occupying Abraham’s Promised Land….ARE Mortals who Willingly gave their MORTAL Live UNTO DEATH, FOR the Lord God, ARE soul SAVED, ARE spirit QUICKENED, ARE risen IN their glorified bodys….and ARE SAINTS, ARE Reigning WITH Christ the Lord, WHOSE TITLE IS “KING of kings”.

The “kings” Christ the Lord SHALL BE REIGNING OVER, (for 1,000 years) ARE MORTALS, living in Nations OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom (Abraham’s Promised Land borders)…
THE SAME MORTALS who BELIEVED and survived …. The Lamb’s Wrath, The Devils’ Wrath and Gods Wrath…..DURING the Great Tribulation.

ALL of that IS TRUE, Learned BY Study of Scripture.
None OF THAT has YET Occurred as YOU claim supposedly occurred in 70 AD….

Scripture Reveals ONLY TWO GREAT TRIBULATIONS SHALL Occur VIA God Sending Them Down from Heaven.

Nothing New Under the Sun….Gods Great Tribulations ARE Expressly Intended TO KILL OFF Mortal MEN AGAINST God, and Once Raised UP from the face of the Earth the Faithful, while God Cleanse the Face of the Earth WITH WATER (which already occurred) and Return to Earth, Gods Faithful (which already occurred)
AND Lastly raise up the faithful from the face of the Earth, Burn the Face of Earth with Fire, (which has not YET occurred), and Return the faithful TO the face of the Earth, (which has not YET occurred).

You failed to support your claims in Rev 20 as I requested. Because it does not exist there. You forcing him to the text. Revelation 20 take us right back to the first advent. You falsely glue them together to support your error.

You failed to support your claims in Rev 20 as I requested. Because it does not exist there. You forcing him to the text. Revelation 20 take us right back to the first advent. You falsely glue them together to support your error.

That IS a LIE. You have been expressly shown the Plain Language IN Scripture…Christ SHALL RULE the Nations as KING “over” kings…….“WITH” His Saints for 1,000 years (VOID of Satan’s Presence)

There are NO Nations IN Heaven.
There are NO underling “kings” IN Heaven.
Nations are Earthly Countries with Mortal “kings” and Mortal “citizens”.
The “Saints” Do not return to Earth and RULE over mortal kings, and mortal citizens…..ALONE!!!
The “Saints” are CLEARLY WITH Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus is CLEARLY WITH the Saints who Have Returned to Earth.

You are playing a dangerous game of preaching AGAINST Christ’s Return to Earth to Claim His Inheritance, Land, Kingdom, Throne, Title KING of kings.

WHO DO YOU THINK…..the “kings” ARE that KING Christ Jesus RULES OVER?

Men IN HEAVEN? Nations and kings IN HEAVEN?

You Come with a pocket full of Accusations for the sole purpose of ATTACK…..Yet flat out deny Christ claiming His Inheritance, His Kingdom, His Throne, His Express time-line Of 1,000 to RULE OVER MORTAL “kings” and “nations”……
The KeY wisdom, is this is 1,000 years wIthOUT the Presence of Satan to CORRUPT the Nations.
The Notable RESULT, ALL Mortals for 1,000 years Being Taught Christ Jesus, Believing, Living the duration of their mortal lives IN Harmony, peace…..withOUT some Greedy, underhanded, powerful MORTAL MAN, oppressing the people of the nations with fear, lies, oppression, threats, thefts, murders ….
AS “mortal kings” of THIS world DO TODAY.

This occurred in AD70.

No…The Last Great Tribulation send down from Heaven Has NOT Occurred.
No…Christ the Lord HAS NOT claimed His Inheritance of Land and Throne.
No…The Citizens of Nations HAVE NOT ALL Believed.
No…Christ the Lord Has NOT Ruled Over ALL Nations.

Jesus reigns at the right hand of majesty. The redeemed are reigning with Him.

No saved soul IN Heaven IS REIGNING.
No saved soul ON Earth IS REIGNING.
Saved souls IN Heaven Are Serving the Lord God.
Saved souls ON Earth Are Serving the Lord God.

During the intra-Advent period (a long time).



Satan has been spiritual bound since the first advent.

WHAAAAT? Satan IS NOT Spiritually Bound!
Satan Was Cast DOWN from Heaven…TO Earth….BEFORE the First man was created and made.

Satan has BEEN SINCE the beginning of mankind ON EARTH, tricking and fooling men with His POWER and his Clever ability to make LIES appear as Truths to INFLUENCE men to Stand Against the Lord God.
And DURING the TRIB, Satan will not ONLY be slyly Influencing men, BUT SEEKING THEM OUT AS A predator Lion to DESTROY, KILL, any men who rejects him.

The nations are on earth at the moment but will be destroyed when He comes.

No, the Nations ARE NOT Destroyed when He Comes.

The Lord God….DIVIDES PEOPLE (and Has since the beginning of Mankind)…..then the Lord God SEPARATES PEOPLE (and has since the beginning of Mankind)….

The Dividing and Separating….BEGINS with INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE….IN the End of Days…
The Lands are divided….
Christ Jesus’ Land (Abraham’s Promised Land)….KING Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM…
And the Nations of Mortal men…(the kings, and the mortal people of their nation….ALL Mortal BeLIEVERS, (having had the Unbelievers DIVIDED and SEPARATED FROM THEM).
Remember….the Son of man sitting on a Cloud….REAPING? He is Separating the Divided, with and without Him.

The NATIONS of Mortals, (kings and citizens) continue for 1,000….and KING Christ Jesus WITH His Saints.

Ending the 1,000 years……SATAN RETURNS TO EARTH….nothing new under the sun….
Satan is powerful, clever, a trickster who influences the NATIONS. Convinces them to MAKE WAR AGAINST KING Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM….
THEIR Mortal Efforts FAIL, They become DESTROYED by FIRE that comes down from Heaven…..and in THAT MOMENT….
ENDS ALL MORTAL EXISTANCE….

Books are opened, ALL individuals body and souls who EVER Lived ARE JUDGED….
AND a FINAL SEPARATION….
Saints WITH the Lord God FOREVER…
Anti-God/Christ/Lamb/Jesus….
Separated FROM the Face of the Earth, the Heavens, the Saints and the Lord God Forever.

IF you studied Gods Word, step by step, Cross-referencing EACH BIT of Knowledge of who, what, when, why, where….You would have Hundreds of BITS of Gods Revealed Knowledge IN an ORDER and WAY, that a babe could follow along.

Scripture IS NOT WRITTEN in a billeted elementary fashion….The who, what, when why, where IS COMPLEX….as it applies to:
Believers IN Christ, IN Jesus, IN God, but not always ALL three, IN Unbelievers, IN the Saved, IN the wicked, IN the evil, IN Men, IN God, In the Lord, IN the Lamb, IN Christ, In holy angels, IN fallen angels…..

Scripture HAS A WIDE application….and While Every Word IS TRUE….NOT ALL of Scripture APPLIES to the ONE same man.

Your teaching style IS grounded IN BEING AGAINST men WHO are Believers AND AGAINST men WHO are Converted.

Not sure why you think that might be a Service the Lord would be pleased with.

 

[Truther]

You did not answer my question: where does it say Jesus is on earth in Rev 20?

This above is where you and Premils err. Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

This is horrible hermeneutics.

This thesis totally contradicts numerous scriptural passages that show the second coming to be the end. You are building your whole theological edifice upon a notable preconceived error: that Rev 20 is yet future. That is the sole grounds of your thesis. But you have zero corroboration for that because every second coming passage we look at is climactic. It involves a general resurrection and a general judgment. It does not allow for 2 resurrection days or 2 judgment days.

I will help you right now starting in the previous chapter....

Rev 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This event is on earth.

The next event is still on earth....

Rev 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[WPM]

Every Seal is a result of the Lambs Judgement, WHO is IN Heaven, Sending Down Upon the Earth inhabitants who rejected the Lamb.
Men on Earth Will be Killed….
Some continuing to reject the Lamb, Some choosing to accept the Lamb and die, in belief, and be Saved.

Trumps are Warnings, The Devil will be given Power to Kill, Some will continue to die Having chosen to believe and be Saved and Some will continue to Reject the Lamb.

From a position sitting on a Cloud (which is not ON Earth…the Son of Man shall be seen by all eyes of men that have ever lived. The Son shall reap the Earth, Killing Bodys While Separating and Saving SOULS of believers from Rejectors.

Saved souls Of dead Bodys from the Seals -Through the Trumps All rise to Heaven….the Remainder Mortal Rejectors then Suffer the Vials Judgements Sent Down from Heaven, and then are Bodily Killed, their unsaved souls Sent to Hell, for 1,000 years to wait for judgement.

Satan and his band of fallen angels are confined to hell for 1,000 years.

A few who believed, remaining in their mortal bodies and escaped Death, shall remain ON the Earth….then Shall Christ the Lord Return to Earth, WITH the bodily dead (whose soul is saved, spirit quickened, and body raised in glory) to claim THEIR INHERITANCE…Abraham’s Promised Land, and Christ Jesus shall Claim His Inheritance….Abraham’s Promised Land AND King David’s Throne.

ALL who are Occupying Abraham’s Promised Land….ARE Mortals who Willingly gave their MORTAL Live UNTO DEATH, FOR the Lord God, ARE soul SAVED, ARE spirit QUICKENED, ARE risen IN their glorified bodys….and ARE SAINTS, ARE Reigning WITH Christ the Lord, WHOSE TITLE IS “KING of kings”.

The “kings” Christ the Lord SHALL BE REIGNING OVER, (for 1,000 years) ARE MORTALS, living in Nations OUTSIDE of Christ’s Kingdom (Abraham’s Promised Land borders)…
THE SAME MORTALS who BELIEVED and survived …. The Lamb’s Wrath, The Devils’ Wrath and Gods Wrath…..DURING the Great Tribulation.

ALL of that IS TRUE, Learned BY Study of Scripture.
None OF THAT has YET Occurred as YOU claim supposedly occurred in 70 AD….

Scripture Reveals ONLY TWO GREAT TRIBULATIONS SHALL Occur VIA God Sending Them Down from Heaven.

Nothing New Under the Sun….Gods Great Tribulations ARE Expressly Intended TO KILL OFF Mortal MEN AGAINST God, and Once Raised UP from the face of the Earth the Faithful, while God Cleanse the Face of the Earth WITH WATER (which already occurred) and Return to Earth, Gods Faithful (which already occurred)
AND Lastly raise up the faithful from the face of the Earth, Burn the Face of Earth with Fire, (which has not YET occurred), and Return the faithful TO the face of the Earth, (which has not YET occurred).

You failed to support your claims in Rev 20 as I requested. Because it does not exist there. You forcing him to the text. Revelation 20 take us right back to the first advent. You falsely glue them together to support your error.


That IS a LIE. You have been expressly shown the Plain Language IN Scripture…Christ SHALL RULE the Nations as KING “over” kings…….“WITH” His Saints for 1,000 years (VOID of Satan’s Presence)

There are NO Nations IN Heaven.
There are NO underling “kings” IN Heaven.
Nations are Earthly Countries with Mortal “kings” and Mortal “citizens”.
The “Saints” Do not return to Earth and RULE over mortal kings, and mortal citizens…..ALONE!!!
The “Saints” are CLEARLY WITH Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus is CLEARLY WITH the Saints who Have Returned to Earth.

You are playing a dangerous game of preaching AGAINST Christ’s Return to Earth to Claim His Inheritance, Land, Kingdom, Throne, Title KING of kings.

WHO DO YOU THINK…..the “kings” ARE that KING Christ Jesus RULES OVER?

Men IN HEAVEN? Nations and kings IN HEAVEN?

You Come with a pocket full of Accusations for the sole purpose of ATTACK…..Yet flat out deny Christ claiming His Inheritance, His Kingdom, His Throne, His Express time-line Of 1,000 to RULE OVER MORTAL “kings” and “nations”……
The KeY wisdom, is this is 1,000 years wIthOUT the Presence of Satan to CORRUPT the Nations.
The Notable RESULT, ALL Mortals for 1,000 years Being Taught Christ Jesus, Believing, Living the duration of their mortal lives IN Harmony, peace…..withOUT some Greedy, underhanded, powerful MORTAL MAN, oppressing the people of the nations with fear, lies, oppression, threats, thefts, murders ….
AS “mortal kings” of THIS world DO TODAY.



No…The Last Great Tribulation send down from Heaven Has NOT Occurred.
No…Christ the Lord HAS NOT claimed His Inheritance of Land and Throne.
No…The Citizens of Nations HAVE NOT ALL Believed.
No…Christ the Lord Has NOT Ruled Over ALL Nations.



No saved soul IN Heaven IS REIGNING.
No saved soul ON Earth IS REIGNING.
Saved souls IN Heaven Are Serving the Lord God.
Saved souls ON Earth Are Serving the Lord God.




WHAAAAT? Satan IS NOT Spiritually Bound!
Satan Was Cast DOWN from Heaven…TO Earth….BEFORE the First man was created and made.

Satan has BEEN SINCE the beginning of mankind ON EARTH, tricking and fooling men with His POWER and his Clever ability to make LIES appear as Truths to INFLUENCE men to Stand Against the Lord God.
And DURING the TRIB, Satan will not ONLY be slyly Influencing men, BUT SEEKING THEM OUT AS A predator Lion to DESTROY, KILL, any men who rejects him.


No, the Nations ARE NOT Destroyed when He Comes.

The Lord God….DIVIDES PEOPLE (and Has since the beginning of Mankind)…..then the Lord God SEPARATES PEOPLE (and has since the beginning of Mankind)….

The Dividing and Separating….BEGINS with INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE….IN the End of Days…
The Lands are divided….
Christ Jesus’ Land (Abraham’s Promised Land)….KING Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM…
And the Nations of Mortal men…(the kings, and the mortal people of their nation….ALL Mortal BeLIEVERS, (having had the Unbelievers DIVIDED and SEPARATED FROM THEM).
Remember….the Son of man sitting on a Cloud….REAPING? He is Separating the Divided, with and without Him.

The NATIONS of Mortals, (kings and citizens) continue for 1,000….and KING Christ Jesus WITH His Saints.

Ending the 1,000 years……SATAN RETURNS TO EARTH….nothing new under the sun….
Satan is powerful, clever, a trickster who influences the NATIONS. Convinces them to MAKE WAR AGAINST KING Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM….
THEIR Mortal Efforts FAIL, They become DESTROYED by FIRE that comes down from Heaven…..and in THAT MOMENT….
ENDS ALL MORTAL EXISTANCE….

Books are opened, ALL individuals body and souls who EVER Lived ARE JUDGED….
AND a FINAL SEPARATION….
Saints WITH the Lord God FOREVER…
Anti-God/Christ/Lamb/Jesus….
Separated FROM the Face of the Earth, the Heavens, the Saints and the Lord God Forever.

IF you studied Gods Word, step by step, Cross-referencing EACH BIT of Knowledge of who, what, when, why, where….You would have Hundreds of BITS of Gods Revealed Knowledge IN an ORDER and WAY, that a babe could follow along.

Scripture IS NOT WRITTEN in a billeted elementary fashion….The who, what, when why, where IS COMPLEX….as it applies to:
Believers IN Christ, IN Jesus, IN God, but not always ALL three, IN Unbelievers, IN the Saved, IN the wicked, IN the evil, IN Men, IN God, In the Lord, IN the Lamb, IN Christ, In holy angels, IN fallen angels…..

Scripture HAS A WIDE application….and While Every Word IS TRUE….NOT ALL of Scripture APPLIES to the ONE same man.

Your teaching style IS grounded IN BEING AGAINST men WHO are Believers AND AGAINST men WHO are Converted.

Not sure why you think that might be a Service the Lord would be pleased with.

When you write a book of gibberish i do not even start to read it. You have just wasted your time.

 

[WPM]

I will help you right now starting in the previous chapter....

Rev 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This event is on earth.

The next event is still on earth....

Rev 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

You are not even addressing my objections. To do so would expose the error of your interpretation.

Where is your corroboration for your interpretation of this elsewhere in the Book? Where teaches this thousand years after the second coming in any other passage?

 

[Truther]

You are not even addressing my objections. To do so would expose the error of your interpretation.

Where is your corroboration for your interpretation of this elsewhere in the Book? Where teaches this thousand years after the second coming in any other passage?

I only quoted scripture with 2-3 sentences of comment.

You clearly read the scripture you are in opposition to.

You know now, that the end of Rev 19 and the first half of Rev 20 are on earth, not heaven.

Your long, drawn out "explanation" will never debunk the scripture to create a narrative you want.

 

[WPM]

I only quoted scripture with 2-3 sentences of comment.

You clearly read the scripture you are in opposition to.

You know now, that the end of Rev 19 and the first half of Rev 20 are on earth, not heaven.

Your long, drawn out "explanation" will never debunk the scripture to create a narrative you want.

But Rev 19 is climactic. All flesh is destroyed. Read the passage! Rev 20 goes right back to the first resurrection - Jesus Christ. It shows the victory of the redeemed no longer residing in Abraham's bosom after the resurrection but reigning in heaven with Jesus. Jesus overcome all this 2000 years ago.

This forbids your claims. You have to deny the obvious recaps in Revelation.

 

[Taken]

When you write a book of gibberish i do not even start to read it. You have just wasted your time.

You made a comment….stating.

WPM:
You are not even addressing my objections. To do so would expose the error of your interpretation.

Per your own TACTIC Let’s call your “objections” Gibberish, after NOT READING IT!….LOL.

Fact is you have NO CLUE what you reveal ABOUT YOURSELF…

Fact is you are KNOWN by your fruits.

Fact is you DENY Christ will reign WITH His saints, OVER mortal Nations, mortal kings, VOID of Satan’s Presence for 1,000 years.

Fact is you DENY the Word of God…
Rev 20:2 FACT:
…Satan, and bound a thousand years..
Rev 20:4 FACT:
…them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Fact IS:
You DENY “THEM” who have GAVE THEIR LIFE BEFORE the TRIBULATION (according to Gods OFFERING of CRUCIFIXION WITH CHRIST….(.rather than beheading DURING the Tribulation)….ARE NOT APPOINTED to SUFFER THE WRATH…OF THE TRIBULATION.
1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ…

WHO “US” IS THOSE WHO OBTAINED SALVATION.
THOSE WHO OBTAINED SALVATION, WERE CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, BEFORE the Tribulation.
THOSE WHO DID NOT become Crucified WITH Christ, SUFFER WRATH DURING the TRIBULATION….
UNTIL….THEY ARE BEHEADED, DEAD, AT THAT TIME Giving their Life to the Lord…
KILLED, and Suffer NO “MORE” Wrath.

The Entire tribulation IS ABOUT THEM, who have REJECTED….the Lamb, Satan, God.

The Entire tribulation IS ABOUT….
The Lambs Wrath…for being Rejected
Rev 6:16
Satans Wrath…for being Rejected.
Rev 12:12
Gods Wrath…for being Rejected…
Rev 16:1

Not ONE MAN, having GIVEN his life crucified WITH Christ, IS SUBJECT to WRATH….Not the Lambs wrath, Not Satans Wrath, Not Gods Wrath.

Those Crucified WITH Christ are called:
SAV-ED, IN Christ, and RISEN UP FROM the Earth TO the CLOUDS, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT APPOINTED TO SUFFER THE WRATH which shall occur UPON the Earth…
BECAUSE…1 Thes 5:9…THEY obtain-ED Salvation BY the Lord Jesus Christ, BEFORE Great Tribulation IS SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN, UPON the Unrighteous.

Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

WHY IS the Lord God AGAINST” any man?
SCRIPTURE TELLS YOU…
IF A MAN HAS NOT FREELY CHOSEN TO BE “WITH” the Lord God…
That man “IS” AGAINST the Lord God…and IN TURN…the Lord God “IS” AGAINST that man.

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me;

Any man WHO IS WITH the Lord God IS NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.
The Crucified WITH Christ…ARE SAV-ED, ARE WITH the Lord God.
The Undecided ARE Appointed to Wrath.
The Undecided DURING the Tribulation, WHO GIVE their LIFE (beheaded FOR the Lord)….BECOME DEAD, Suffer no more WRATH and Become SAVED.

Rev 6:16 (SEALS…Wrath of the Lamb)
Rev 12:12 (Devils Wrath)
Rev 16: 1 (VIALS…Wrath of God)

You searching out Scriptures THAT DO NOT APPLY to THOSE WITH and IN Christ, And DENYING What Scripture DOES SAY and TEACHING YOUR DENIAL APPLIES to those WITH and IN Christ…
IS YOU, DENYING Gods Word…and BEING AGAINST those SAV-ED, WITH and IN Christ.

And BY YOUR FRUITS, YOU Reveal YOUR position AGAINST those Crucified WITH Christ, SAV-ED, WITH, IN, Christ, and NOT Appointed to WRATH Sent down from Heaven……Quakes, Fires, Satans Ruling, Wars, Woes, Chaos, beheading, bodily killed…

AND AS told to you BEFORE…I do NOT respond FOR YOUR BENEFIT (you have already Revealed your EYES and EARS are closed)….however others may BENEFIT, Hear and GO READ with their OWN eyes, What Scripture SAYS, APPLIES TO, THOSE…WITH Christ Jesus, IN Christ Jesus….and THOSE NOT WITH Christ Jesus and NOT IN Christ Jesus…..AND WHY….

IF a man IS NOT WITH Christ Jesus….HE IS ACCOUNTED AGAINST Christ Jesus, and Appointed to WRATH!

And a little tid-bit….A man WITH and IN Christ Jesus, CAN NEVER SPEAK AGAINST the TRUTH OF Christ Jesus….as you do.

 

[WPM]

You made a comment….stating.

WPM:
You are not even addressing my objections. To do so would expose the error of your interpretation.

Per your own TACTIC Let’s call your “objections” Gibberish, after NOT READING IT!….LOL.

Fact is you have NO CLUE what you reveal ABOUT YOURSELF…

Fact is you are KNOWN by your fruits.

Fact is you DENY Christ will reign WITH His saints, OVER mortal Nations, mortal kings, VOID of Satan’s Presence for 1,000 years.

Fact is you DENY the Word of God…
Rev 20:2 FACT:
…Satan, and bound a thousand years..
Rev 20:4 FACT:
…them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Fact IS:
You DENY “THEM” who have GAVE THEIR LIFE BEFORE the TRIBULATION (according to Gods OFFERING of CRUCIFIXION WITH CHRIST….(.rather than beheading DURING the Tribulation)….ARE NOT APPOINTED to SUFFER THE WRATH…OF THE TRIBULATION.
1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ…

WHO “US” IS THOSE WHO OBTAINED SALVATION.
THOSE WHO OBTAINED SALVATION, WERE CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, BEFORE the Tribulation.
THOSE WHO DID NOT become Crucified WITH Christ, SUFFER WRATH DURING the TRIBULATION….
UNTIL….THEY ARE BEHEADED, DEAD, AT THAT TIME Giving their Life to the Lord…
KILLED, and Suffer NO “MORE” Wrath.

The Entire tribulation IS ABOUT THEM, who have REJECTED….the Lamb, Satan, God.

The Entire tribulation IS ABOUT….
The Lambs Wrath…for being Rejected
Rev 6:16
Satans Wrath…for being Rejected.
Rev 12:12
Gods Wrath…for being Rejected…
Rev 16:1

Not ONE MAN, having GIVEN his life crucified WITH Christ, IS SUBJECT to WRATH….Not the Lambs wrath, Not Satans Wrath, Not Gods Wrath.

Those Crucified WITH Christ are called:
SAV-ED, IN Christ, and RISEN UP FROM the Earth TO the CLOUDS, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT APPOINTED TO SUFFER THE WRATH which shall occur UPON the Earth…
BECAUSE…1 Thes 5:9…THEY obtain-ED Salvation BY the Lord Jesus Christ, BEFORE Great Tribulation IS SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN, UPON the Unrighteous.

Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

WHY IS the Lord God AGAINST” any man?
SCRIPTURE TELLS YOU…
IF A MAN HAS NOT FREELY CHOSEN TO BE “WITH” the Lord God…
That man “IS” AGAINST the Lord God…and IN TURN…the Lord God “IS” AGAINST that man.

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me;

Any man WHO IS WITH the Lord God IS NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.
The Crucified WITH Christ…ARE SAV-ED, ARE WITH the Lord God.
The Undecided ARE Appointed to Wrath.
The Undecided DURING the Tribulation, WHO GIVE their LIFE (beheaded FOR the Lord)….BECOME DEAD, Suffer no more WRATH and Become SAVED.

Rev 6:16 (SEALS…Wrath of the Lamb)
Rev 12:12 (Devils Wrath)
Rev 16: 1 (VIALS…Wrath of God)

You searching out Scriptures THAT DO NOT APPLY to THOSE WITH and IN Christ, And DENYING What Scripture DOES SAY and TEACHING YOUR DENIAL APPLIES to those WITH and IN Christ…
IS YOU, DENYING Gods Word…and BEING AGAINST those SAV-ED, WITH and IN Christ.

And BY YOUR FRUITS, YOU Reveal YOUR position AGAINST those Crucified WITH Christ, SAV-ED, WITH, IN, Christ, and NOT Appointed to WRATH Sent down from Heaven……Quakes, Fires, Satans Ruling, Wars, Woes, Chaos, beheading, bodily killed…

AND AS told to you BEFORE…I do NOT respond FOR YOUR BENEFIT (you have already Revealed your EYES and EARS are closed)….however others may BENEFIT, Hear and GO READ with their OWN eyes, What Scripture SAYS, APPLIES TO, THOSE…WITH Christ Jesus, IN Christ Jesus….and THOSE NOT WITH Christ Jesus and NOT IN Christ Jesus…..AND WHY….

IF a man IS NOT WITH Christ Jesus….HE IS ACCOUNTED AGAINST Christ Jesus, and Appointed to WRATH!

And a little tid-bit….A man WITH and IN Christ Jesus, CAN NEVER SPEAK AGAINST the TRUTH OF Christ Jesus….as you do.

I think you are wasting your time. I doubt anyone is going to read this. It looks incoherent. I am certainly not going to even attempt it.

 

[Truther]

But Rev 19 is climactic. All flesh is destroyed. Read the passage! Rev 20 goes right back to the first resurrection - Jesus Christ. It shows the victory of the redeemed no longer residing in Abraham's bosom after the resurrection but reigning in heaven with Jesus. Jesus overcome all this 2000 years ago.

This forbids your claims. You have to deny the obvious recaps in Revelation.

Rev 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Busted.

Only the armies of the antichrist are destroyed.

More humans populate the earth per Rev 20...


7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

 

[Truther]

Preterists read the Bible backwards.

 

[WPM]

Rev 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Busted.

Only the armies of the antichrist are destroyed.

More humans populate the earth per Rev 20...


7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

Not true! That is not what it says. There are only 2 peoples on this earth in God's eyes - the redeemed and the wicked. These both are armies in conflict with each other. When Jesus returns the elect are caught up, the wicked are destroyed. These 2 peoples/armies carry one of 2 marks - God's mark or the world's mark of reprobation.

They are represented as 2 armies that are in conflict. God's army returns with Him, the devil's is destroyed by Christ's Coming. You are trying to limit what the Holy Spirit is saying. All flesh is destroyed here as it was in Noah's day and in Sodom. There are no survivors. You are side-stepping the actual wording of Revelation 19.

 

[Timtofly]

That is not what John plainly states! He says nothing about Christ reigning for 1,000 years.

John writes that martyred saints, DEAD yet ALIVE lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. You're taking the time when saints lived and reigned with Christ and concluding that Christ Jesus reigns for 1,000 literal years on this earth. You not only abuse the verse, but also put time restraints on the reign of Christ which Scripture says He reigns FOREVER.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

You want this to say physically resurrected saints shall live and reign with Christ for a literal ONE thousand years on this earth after Christ comes again. That's what we call reading one's doctrine into the text.

And you are reading the doctrine of martyrdom into the text. It does not literally say they were martyred, nor even symbolically martyred.

It does say they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Has any one to this day, lived and reigned for a thousand years, after being judged before thrones?

How many dead people never resurrected live and reign with Christ? The first step is living after death that last for a thousand years. Is your "lived" longer than or shorter than a thousand years?

How can they be dead and living at the same time? Are they dead or not? Do people who reign with Christ still do so as being dead and not alive? Why is a time frame even given? Is it the time frame of them being killed or the time frame of them alive after death, and after judgment? Why do you change the Word of God into something not written?

John would not be so foolish since he understands that Christ reigns FOREVER!

No one is limiting the reign of Christ. We point out that these people enjoy a 1,000 year part of their life reigning with Christ's eternal reign.

 

[Keraz]

All flesh is destroyed here as it was in Noah's day and in Sodom. There are no survivors. You are side-stepping the actual wording of Revelation 19.

The prime example of your twisting and mis-application of the Prophesies.
People DID survive the Flood and the destruction of Sodom. Mortal humankind carried on, as it will after Jesus Returns. Only AFTER the clearly stated Millennium reign of Jesus, will the Eternal state come and there will be no more Death.

We will all face Judgment at the end of God's decreed time for mankind. Revelation 20:11-15
God will not look kindly on those who have promoted ideas which contradict Bible teaching.

 

[Taken]

I think you are wasting your time. I doubt anyone is going to read this. It looks incoherent. I am certainly not going to even attempt it.

You have made clear what you think.

If ONE person reads and searches the Scripture to see that it be TRUE, he is more informed and more noble than a man who busy’s himself disagreeing with what Gods Word Teaches.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say anything about Jesus reigning on earth in Revelation 20? Is this all you have? A passage that does not even say anything about Him reigning on earth is the only thing you have to support your view that He will reign on the earth? You have no other NT scripture to back up your view?

Matthew 25:31

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say this is on earth?

Where does it say this is in heaven?