22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
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No! Quite the opposite. He is reigning now. You deny Scripture when you reject that. Not wide!
Same thing. This is all your own imaginations.
Can you name one sane or orthodox teacher in history that taught this nonsense?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen many people who believed IN Jesus for years BEFORE they confessed their belief IN JESUS IS the Christ and become IN Christ.
I guess in your World when A person first is learning about Jesus, they immediately Confess they believes He is The Christ….
Cool…it only took the Disciples as Adults, learning ABOUT Jesus daily for THREE years to discover Jesus IS the Christ.
And the average person, MAYBE hearing About Jesus in a church for an hour 50 times a year….has it all figured Out that Jesus IS the Christ……
No comparison….on the time frame….
And totally irrelevant that FAITH is given a person in small measures….WHEN they are hearing the Word of God…..
Yup, yup….I presume you perhaps 5 yrs old heard Jesus’ Name and confessed He is the Christ….
BECAUSE you truly believed that in your heart! And those silly old adult Disciples wasted all that time learning ABOUT Jesus, being IN Jesus….before they Knew and confessed they believed He is the Christ and became IN Christ.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Yeah , but took a moment for 3000 non disciples to realise the truth through the power of the Spirit that had just been given.I’ve seen many people who believed IN Jesus for years BEFORE they confessed their belief IN JESUS IS the Christ and become IN Christ.
I guess in your World when A person first is learning about Jesus, they immediately Confess they believes He is The Christ….
Cool…it only took the Disciples as Adults, learning ABOUT Jesus daily for THREE years to discover Jesus IS the Christ.
And the average person, MAYBE hearing About Jesus in a church for an hour 50 times a year….has it all figured Out that Jesus IS the Christ……
No comparison….on the time frame….
And totally irrelevant that FAITH is given a person in small measures….WHEN they are hearing the Word of God…..
Yup, yup….I presume you perhaps 5 yrs old heard Jesus’ Name and confessed He is the Christ….
I’ve seen many people who believed IN Jesus for years BEFORE they confessed their belief IN JESUS IS the Christ and become IN Christ.
I guess in your World when A person first is learning about Jesus, they immediately Confess they believes He is The Christ….
Cool…it only took the Disciples as Adults, learning ABOUT Jesus daily for THREE years to discover Jesus IS the Christ.
And the average person, MAYBE hearing About Jesus in a church for an hour 50 times a year….has it all figured Out that Jesus IS the Christ……
No comparison….on the time frame….
And totally irrelevant that FAITH is given a person in small measures….WHEN they are hearing the Word of God…..
Yup, yup….I presume you perhaps 5 yrs old heard Jesus’ Name and confessed He is the Christ….
Who cares what men profess. If they are not saved, they are not saved. Those who belong to Jesus belong to Christ. These are two titles of the one Lord. Stop inventing your own false teaching. One does not need to theologically know all that being "in Christ" entails. They simply need to receive Him into their heart. This involves dual resurrection - spiritual and physical.
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jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Amen to that.
A good time to read to Ephesians.
A snippet.
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers; 17 [I always pray] that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may grant you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation [that gives you a deep and personal and intimate insight] into the true knowledge of Him [for we know the Father through the Son]. 18 And [I pray] that the eyes of your heart [the very center and core of your being] may be enlightened [flooded with light by the Holy Spirit], so that you will know and cherish the hope [the divine guarantee, the confident expectation] to which He has called you, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints (God’s people), 19 and [so that you will begin to know] what the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His [active, spiritual] power is in us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength 20 which He produced in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion [whether angelic or human], and [far above] every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and world but also in the one to come.
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Maybe in your imaginations, but in reality He is King of kings and Lord of lords. Unlike you, Amils have a BIG Jesus and a small devil.
Any way, Scripture demolishes your theology!
Jesus is described in Revelation 3:7 as, “he that hath the key (or authority) of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.”
He holds all power (without qualification). After all, He is God! God either causes or permits - as He is God and He is sovereign. Simple! That is an explicit biblical truth and a Christian fundamental. The powerful language that accompanies the mention of Christ holding the key of David proves that this is referring to His majestic power and might. It says, “he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.” This speaks of spiritual power. The key allows Christ to sovereignly open and shut in a way that no man can thwart or override.
He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”
Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”
He rules intimately over His spiritual kingdom as Messiah and sovereignly over the physical kingdoms of the world and over all mankind as God.
He rules intimately over His spiritual kingdom as Saviour and sovereignly over the physical kingdoms of the world and over all mankind as Lord.
1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”
Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.
1 Timothy 6:13-16 says, “I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate (dunastes or ruler, great authority or mighty), the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
He is going to reveal to mankind, time, and to the natural, what He is now in heaven, the invisible realm and in eternity. He "is (indeed) the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords.”
This all confirms my previous contention: Premil is constantly exalting the power and influence of Satan and diluting the sovereign power and influence of Christ. That is nowhere more evident than in their constant rubbishing of Christ’s current kingship over His enemies at the right hand of majesty on high. Whether they mean to or not, Premils are always highlighting what Satan is doing in our day instead of what Christ is doing. Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god, Amil has a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Amil, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Amils are always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Amil sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Amil Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.
If Christ is not already King of kings, then neither is He already Lord of lords. But Revelation 19:14 tell us: "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yeah , but took a moment for 3000 non disciples to realise the truth through the power of the Spirit that had just been given.
Point is;
IN Jesus, people can hear and by the power of the Spirit “WITH” them….BELIEVE.
AND CAN fall away….NOT BELIEVE…and the Spirit Will NO LONGER BE “WITH” Them.
People WHO DO Believe IN Jesus, (ON THE DAY OF THEIR BODILY DEATH)…
at THEIR moment of DEATH;
SHALL BE SAVED.
(After a persons BODY is DEAD, that BODY can MAKE no more Decisions, to fall away).
IN Christ, people at the moment they “heartfully Confess”….THEY ARE at THAT moment … GIVING their Bodily LIFE TO the Lord …
And BY the POWER of the Spirit;
At that moment….ARE SAVED.
And FOREVER By the POWER of the SPIRIT…
WITH-AND-IN Them…ARE KEPT SAVED.
BELIEVING IS ONE THING.
GIVING YOUR LIFE IS ANOTHER THING.
DOING SO, Carnally IS ONE THING.
DOING SO, Heartfully IS ANOTHER THING.
Not KNOWING the Difference IS IGNORANCE.
To “pretend” there is NO DIFFERENCE, IS FALSE!
For 2,000 years the Gentiles “were/are Supposedly being TAUGHT”…. The difference between BEING WITH JESUS and IN CHRIST…
Apparently Some Preachers HAVE FAILED to TEACH and Congregates HAVE FAILED to UNDERSTAND the Difference.
The JEWS (tribesmen), were SENT Jesus, and Jesus Taught JEWS, and SENT out JEWS to teach the JEWS, and then ALL Tribesmen, and FOR A BLIP IN TIME, the JEWS were ACCEPTING Jesus’ Gospel TRUTH….AND?
The POWER of the Spirit, has a TWO EDGED SWORD….JUST….and WILL…give a man what his HEART DESIRES….
A Heart that Desires TO BELIEVE…THE Spirit SHALL give power to that Heart TO BELIEVE.
A Heart that Desires TO “NOT” BELIEVE…THE Spirit SHALL give power to that Heart TO “NOT” BELIEVE….(simply called in Scripture, hardening of the heart).
The JEWS, began NOT Believing, AND….?
Their Hearts Became “Hardened”.
And the DILEMMA hangs on….
Covenants (OF Salvation) MADE between God and His People ISRAEL….
And Gods People ISRAEL, broadly for Centuries, having their Hearts Hardened, And repeatedly suffering Hardships, Hate, Adversaries….
AND? There is the COVENANT….thingy…
Gods PROMISE to SAVE His People ISRAEL…
Save ISRAEL People, who DO NOT Believe “IN” Jesus?
Save ISRAEL People, who DO NOT Give their Life TO Christ and Become Made “IN” Christ?
Christians, IN Jesus, IN Christ carry on about the LAST DAYS Great Tribulations Sent Down from Heaven, AS IF IT IS ALL ABOUT THEM….Christians……IT ISN”T.
The LAST DAYS Great Tribulation Sent Down from Heaven, IS ALL ABOUT God Fulfilling His Covenant to His PEOPLE ISRAEL, TO SAVE THEM!
God SENDS TWO Witness TO “the JEWS”.
God SENDS A Lamb and 144,000 Tribesmen, (12,000 of each of the 12 Tribes OF ISRAEL),
TO ISRAEL, TO TEACH THEM SO THEY WILL BE SAVED,
And GODS Covenant Promise, TO HIS PEOPLE “ISRAEL” FULFILLED!
What does THAT ^ have to do with Christians, IN Jesus, During the LAST DAYS God SENDS down from Heaven Great Tribulations Upon the Earth and it’s inhabits?
* Those IN Jesus, have NOT given their bodily life…and will FIND their opportunity TO give their bodily LIFE UNTO physical Death, or Decide to Abandoned their Belief IN Jesus and bodily live a little longer, then bodily BE KILLED and Separated FROM the Lord God forever.
* Those IN Christ, Have NO Appointment / Requirement of Presence DURING the Last Days Great Tribulation Sent down from Heaven UPON the Earth and it’s inhabitants, Suffering Wrath, while they Decide to KEEP their Belief IN JESUS or Willingly GIVE their bodily LIFE unto DEATH FOR CHRIST JESUS, the Lord……
THEY ALREADY DID!
* Scripture WARNS repeatedly…
IN Jesus, is WITH Jesus, and a person CAN FALL AWAY.
* Scripture TEACHES…
BE Diligent (knowing, studied, of what you are agreeing to) Be VERY SURE (of knowing what you are agreeing to) Before you CHOOSE and CALL on the Lord with a Confession of BELIEF IN CHRIST Jesus…BECAUSE…
WITH-IN Christ Jesus, IS a A PERMANENT Choice, and the person CAN NEVER FALL AWAY.
2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
And “IF”, a person DOES NOT DO…
Those things? “IF” a person IS NOT SURE, but yet, goes through the motions? MAKES a CONFESSION when he was NOT diligent, Did NOT Learn he is Heartfully Agreeing to Give HIS LIFE to the Lord God, but is rather Carnally going through the motions, to SATISFY the ears and eyes of men?
OOPS…He did not SATISFY the Order and Way God required for God to hear and see.
If a person is NOT taught the WHOLE TRUTH OF God, the man MAKES decisions on Half Truths, and negates the “IF” requirement of God, to “THEN” receive Gods Offering according to Gods Order and Way…(not men).
Taken
Well-Known Member
STAY IN Gods ORDER and WAY.
* Christ IS King of kings, Lord of lords….
THAT Applies to Christ.
* Every man has FREEWILL.
THAT Applies to Every man.
There are PRESENTLY NATIONS across this entire world,
With Head Governing men. (Called by whatever title, kings, presidents, chairmen, etc.)
ARE you PRETENDING, EVERY “king” of this present world of nations, “IS” governed “UNDER” CHRIST KING NOW?
Uh, no they ARE NOT. The majority of “kings” of this world, DO NOT govern their nations, according to BEING…..“WITH or UNDER” the Governing-ship OF Christ the Lords ORDER and WAY!
Open YOUR EYES, YOUR EARS….
The “kings” of this World, OPPRESS, THREATEN, PLOT Against and MURDER their own people of their nations.
CHRIST JESUS’ inheritance and authority OF King of kings, and Lord of lords….is ALREADY Established….HOWEVER, the kings of this World, and the lords of this World, and the Citizens of this worlds nations, ARE NOT ALL WITH and UNDER the KING, the LORD, Christ Jesus…..
THAT ^^ IS NOT YET MANIFESTED!!
THAT ^^ BECOMES MANIFESTED DURING the Millennial Reign of Christ the Lord Jesus!
WHEN ALL NATIONS (citizens) and ALL kings of ALL NATIONS, HAVE Freely Chosen, TO BE, WITH and UNDER the Order and Way OF KING Christ the Lord Jesus.
Every man has freewill to Choose WHO will Govern OVER him.
You want to be SUBJECT TO, the Chinese Governor-ship?…become a Chinese Citizen, Florida?…become a Florida Citizen…Russia? Become a Russian Citizen….on and on…your choice.
You want to become WITH and Subject to KING Christ Jesus’?… Become a Citizen of HIS WORLD, HIS KINGDOM.
Right NOW, HIS WORLD and KINGDOM IS HEAVEN!
Right NOW, He is ACCEPTING CITIZEN-SHIP of ANY Individual WHO chooses to BE a citizen of HIS KINGDOM.
SOON His WORLD and HIS PHYSICAL KINGDOM will INCLUDE THIS WORLD!
IN the FINALITY of the BIG PICTURE, “ONLY” men who freely choose to become Citizens OF His World, His Kingdom….will occupy His World ON Earth and His Kingdom ON Earth.
Everything occurs ACCORDING TO Gods ORDER and WAY….
Christ Jesus’ HAS NOT YET returned to Earth to CLAIM His Earthly Kingdom or BE SEATED on His Earthy Throne….NOR is the entire WORLD of MEN freely agreed to be WITH or Governed BY, THROUGH, OF…KING Christ the Lord Jesus.
John 8:
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Once again, you totally failed to address or exegete any text I presented. You transpired to make a convoluted statement.
I cannot make head or tail of your writings. They are totally incoherent. They are totally evasive. I hope you understand what you are saying. To me, they are total gibberish.
No?...
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They reign with Christ but He doesn't reign?
Taken
Well-Known Member
How about you stop making Vague Accusations….?
Quote my words of something Specific and then make your disagreement.
You making a blanket accusation, is ridiculous.
I have said repeatedly…Jesus is Truth…and by your blanket accusations…is you claiming Jesus IS Truth, said by me , is False!
Ridiculous.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
They are. But Jesus is in heaven. Where is your Scripture in Rev 20 that teaches He is on earth?
It is good to listen other posters so that you can take their criticism on board, if it is fair and honest.
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