22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[rwb]

When the WORD SAYS IN Jesus, IN Christ, Christ reigns for 1,000 years, 144,000 are with a Lamb and YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT……Why would you remotely believe YOU would SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY those WORDS ARE expressly Stated?

YOU Don’t….and your only recourse IS to badmouth the one who DOES BELIEVE Gods Stated Word.

ANY CLUE what JUDGEMENTS Scripture teaches APPLIES TO a man who “persecutes” a man who trusts and believes Gods Word…..?

I can disagree with you….BUT I DO NOT badmouth you FOR YOUR BELIEFS….
And YOU can disagree with me…..AND YOUR course of action is to BADMOUTH, whom you disagree with….

I would be foolish to doubt anything the Word says! And the Word has taught me that when we are in Christ, we are in Jesus. Have you not read what the Scripture tells us. I'll give you a few examples.

Acts 2:36 (KJV) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 10:36 (KJV) The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Acts 20:21 (KJV) Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:11 (KJV) For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I don't deny a thousand years written in Scripture. I understand it equates to TIME given the Church to build the spiritual Kingdom of God as She proclaims the Gospel unto all the world. It would be foolish of me to believe a thousand equates to ONE thousand years of time that shall come after Christ comes the second time, because then I would force contradiction into the Word of God. And contradiction of Scripture is the mother of ALL errors!

I also do not deny the 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel, understanding this number symbolically represents the elect remnant of all the Old Covenant saints saved according to grace through faith. It's an incredible picture they paint of how prior to the advent of Christ coming to earth to save His people, there were relatively few having faith from the Old Covenant saved. Compared to the innumerable multitude from every nation of the world, 144,000 symbolizes a remnant indeed. Glorious depiction of the victorious life, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, Saviour of the world!

I'm not badmouthing any person here! But I am speaking out strongly and with much conviction of those who bring heretical doctrine into the community, those who cannot prove what they assume, nor are they troubled when their doctrine is shown to cause the Word of God to contradict! How about you? Can you prove through the Word of God what you allege? It appears you cannot, or you would have shown verses and passages to prove your assumptions!

 

[Taken]

This is a typical Premil response: anyone who disagrees with your false teaching has a carnal understanding.
Yea, right! You are twisting Scripture to support your false beliefs, I suspect you know that.

I suspect by your DENIAL of STATED SCRIPTURE….you DO NOT Spiritually Understand that which you DO NOT Believe is Scripturally Stated….

And FURTHER am Amusted YOU ARE THE ONE CALLING OUT a BELIEVER in Gods Word…..as FALSE.

 

[Taken]

You're still not a recognized Bible exegete.

IF YOU were MY Judge, I would consider your comment. However the Fact is…YOU ARE NOT my Judge, so I have zero concern of what you Recognize.

I am content The Lord God KNOWS me.

 

[covenantee]

IF YOU were MY Judge, I would consider your comment. However the Fact is…YOU ARE NOT my Judge, so I have zero concern of what you Recognize.

I am content The Lord God KNOWS me.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. More than 2,000 years of recognized Bible exegetes

Need a hint?

 

[WPM]

When the WORD SAYS IN Jesus, IN Christ, Christ reigns for 1,000 years, 144,000 are with a Lamb and YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT……Why would you remotely believe YOU would SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY those WORDS ARE expressly Stated?

YOU Don’t….and your only recourse IS to badmouth the one who DOES BELIEVE Gods Stated Word.

ANY CLUE what JUDGEMENTS Scripture teaches APPLIES TO a man who “persecutes” a man who trusts and believes Gods Word…..?

I can disagree with you….BUT I DO NOT badmouth you FOR YOUR BELIEFS….
And YOU can disagree with me…..AND YOUR course of action is to BADMOUTH, whom you disagree with….

You are inventing your own doctrine to support what is going on in your head. The cults and apostate churches do that as well. It is wrong.

 

[WPM]

IF YOU were MY Judge, I would consider your comment. However the Fact is…YOU ARE NOT my Judge, so I have zero concern of what you Recognize.

I am content The Lord God KNOWS me.

You are yet to support your speculations with hard Scripture. You obviously cannot handle being questioned. Your opinions override Scripture.

 

[Taken]

I would be foolish to doubt anything the Word says!

AGREE.

And the Word has taught me that when we are in Christ, we are in Jesus.

That’s nice. Already address that SPECIFICALLY.

AND you have it completely BACKWARDS…
Men IN JESUS…CAN Become ALSO IN CHRIST.
Not ALL men IN JESUS….DO Become men IN CHIRST.

But then….that is you wandering OFF, NOT PAYING ATTENTION to Gods ORDER and WAY…..that I have repeatedly expressed IS PARAMOUNT!

Have you not read what the Scripture tells us.

Irrelevant….to give examples of Scripture WHEN I have already addressed…..IN ORDER….
Men IN JESUS can become ALSO IN Christ.
Men IN JESUS can ALSO NOT become IN Christ.

Have you NEVER been in a Christian Church, KNOWN congregates WHO BELIEVED IN JESUS…BUT WERE NOT SAVED IN CHRIST?

Have you NEVER OBSERVED congregates “BELIEVING IN JESUS” in a Christian Church walk to the ALTER, CONFESS BEFORE the Congregation ….. THEY BELIEVE Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God…..?
WHICH DUH…….IS that individual BECOME “IN” Christ!

And WHAT ABOUT the guy sitting in a Christian Church, week after week, year after year…..BELIEVING IN JESUS “that Jesus lived, Jesus died, God raised Him up from the Dead”…………..YET THAT SAME MAN NEVER Confesses…..He believes JESUS “IS” the Christ, the Son of the Living God?

La, te, da……….THAT man IS “IN Jesus”, but NOT “IN Christ”….

Not Complicated.
As long as that man CONtINUES IN JESUS, to the day his BODY physically DIES….
AT the time his body physically dies “IN JESUS”…..he shall be saved.

WHEN a man IN Jesus, Confesses he heartfully believes, Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God…..HIS BODY IS CRUCIFIED with Jesus. (You know a crucified body is a DEAD BODY?)……He has fulfilled the ONE BODILY DEATH requirement…..to THEN RECEIVE his salvation.

ODD that is a conundrum for you…..It is the very bare bones of the ENTIRE….GOOD NEWS of the NEW TESTAMENT.

A better Testament….that God ACCEPTS a “spiritual Crucifixion Death of a mans body”, rather than as in the OT, ONLY a physical bodily dead was acceptable…….FOR a man to RECEIVE salvation of his SOUL!

Once a mans BODY IS DEAD….physically IN Jesus or spiritually via Crucifixion WITH Christ……and Thus IN Christ Jesus……..
THAT mans body IS DEAD to the DAY it IS RAISED UP….

Bodily DEAD is DEAD…..Physically or Spiritually.

WHEN a man is “SANCTIFIED” (which means set apart)…..it will be AFTER a bodily death…
IN Jesus, after a physical death.
IN Christ Jesus after a spiritual crucifixion death.

And WHO and WHEN Raises UP THOSE “ONLY” in Jesus….IS God, AFTER the millennial reign of Christ.

And WHO and WHEN raises UP THOSE “IN” Christ Jesus…..IS the Lord. BEFORE the millennial reign of Christ the Lord Jesus.

So….
DO you believe Christ the Lord Jesus Reigns 1,000 years on Earth?

 

[Taken]

You are inventing your own doctrine to support what is going on in your head. The cults and apostate churches do that as well. It is wrong.

No. I am speaking from a perspective of FACTUAL Words recorded IN Scripture and a perspective of Spiritual Understanding….that MAKES NO SENSE to YOUR CARNAL Understanding….NOR is it supposed to.

 

[Taken]

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. More than 2,000 years of recognized Bible exegetes

Need a hint?

WHO asked YOU to believe me?
Definately NOT ME!

YOU should continue on YOUR PATH of following, believing, counsels of men WHO have INTERPRETED scripture FOR YOU….

BECAUSE it would be Wrong for you to TRUST Scripture that SAYS…. NOT to privately interpret Scripture…. to Trust the Lord God Himself IS THE ONLY ONE who interprets HIS OWN WORD….

YOU stick to YOUR idea, of OTHER men deciding FOR YOU.

I’ll stick to the Lord Gods TEACHING of Getting His INTERPRETATION and Understanding FROM HIM!

If what I choose is not “satisfactory” to WHOM you follow…..pfff…who cares? Not me.

 

[Taken]

You are inventing your own doctrine to support what is going on in your head. The cults and apostate churches do that as well. It is wrong.

No I am not inventing a Doctrine.
Yes you reject what I say by what is IN YOUR HEAD…..duh, Carnal Thinking…

Comprehending Scripture IS about Spiritual Understanding….. NOT your carnal mind.

 

[WPM]

No. I am speaking from a perspective of FACTUAL Words recorded IN Scripture and a perspective of Spiritual Understanding….that MAKES NO SENSE to YOUR CARNAL Understanding….NOR is it supposed to.

You will never divide Jesus, Christ and Lord up. He is the one and only unitary King of kings and Lord of lords. The fact you try is an indictment upon what you have convinced yourself. It would be easier for you to divide the Atlantic Ocean. This is imaginary.

 

[covenantee]

WHO asked YOU to believe me?
Definately NOT ME!

Good.

So you go on believing yourself, and I'll go on believing the recognized exegetes of historical NT orthodox Christianity.

Deal?

 

[rwb]

AND you have it completely BACKWARDS…
Men IN JESUS…CAN Become ALSO IN CHRIST.
Not ALL men IN JESUS….DO Become men IN CHIRST.

You need to explain what you mean. Can you provide any verse or passage from Scripture to prove some can be in Jesus but not also in Christ, who is Jesus? I've never heard this doctrine before, from where does it originate?

But then….that is you wandering OFF, NOT PAYING ATTENTION to Gods ORDER and WAY…..that I have repeatedly expressed IS PARAMOUNT!

Just because you say it, does NOT make it truth! It seems you are attempting to divide Jesus and Christ as if they were not one and the same. That is indeed foolishness.

Irrelevant….to give examples of Scripture WHEN I have already addressed…..IN ORDER….
Men IN JESUS can become ALSO IN Christ.
Men IN JESUS can ALSO NOT become IN Christ.

Have you NEVER been in a Christian Church, KNOWN congregates WHO BELIEVED IN JESUS…BUT WERE NOT SAVED IN CHRIST?

Have you NEVER OBSERVED congregates “BELIEVING IN JESUS” in a Christian Church walk to the ALTER, CONFESS BEFORE the Congregation ….. THEY BELIEVE Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God…..?
WHICH DUH…….IS that individual BECOME “IN” Christ!

And WHAT ABOUT the guy sitting in a Christian Church, week after week, year after year…..BELIEVING IN JESUS “that Jesus lived, Jesus died, God raised Him up from the Dead”…………..YET THAT SAME MAN NEVER Confesses…..He believes JESUS “IS” the Christ, the Son of the Living God?

La, te, da……….THAT man IS “IN Jesus”, but NOT “IN Christ”….

Not Complicated.
As long as that man CONtINUES IN JESUS, to the day his BODY physically DIES….
AT the time his body physically dies “IN JESUS”…..he shall be saved.

WHEN a man IN Jesus, Confesses he heartfully believes, Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God…..HIS BODY IS CRUCIFIED with Jesus. (You know a crucified body is a DEAD BODY?)……He has fulfilled the ONE BODILY DEATH requirement…..to THEN RECEIVE his salvation.

ODD that is a conundrum for you…..It is the very bare bones of the ENTIRE….GOOD NEWS of the NEW TESTAMENT.

A better Testament….that God ACCEPTS a “spiritual Crucifixion Death of a mans body”, rather than as in the OT, ONLY a physical bodily dead was acceptable…….FOR a man to RECEIVE salvation of his SOUL!

Once a mans BODY IS DEAD….physically IN Jesus or spiritually via Crucifixion WITH Christ……and Thus IN Christ Jesus……..
THAT mans body IS DEAD to the DAY it IS RAISED UP….

Bodily DEAD is DEAD…..Physically or Spiritually.

WHEN a man is “SANCTIFIED” (which means set apart)…..it will be AFTER a bodily death…
IN Jesus, after a physical death.
IN Christ Jesus after a spiritual crucifixion death.

And WHO and WHEN Raises UP THOSE “ONLY” in Jesus….IS God, AFTER the millennial reign of Christ.

And WHO and WHEN raises UP THOSE “IN” Christ Jesus…..IS the Lord. BEFORE the millennial reign of Christ the Lord Jesus.

I hope others might forgive my bluntness, but this is beyond a doubt one of the most ridiculous doctrines I have ever heard! It is based upon the thoughts from your mind, but does not come from Scripture. I can't help but notice you post nothing from God's Word to prove that which you make up.

 

[WPM]

I've never heard this doctrine before, from where does it originate?

A dark place!

 

[WPM]

No I am not inventing a Doctrine.
Yes you reject what I say by what is IN YOUR HEAD…..duh, Carnal Thinking…

Comprehending Scripture IS about Spiritual Understanding….. NOT your carnal mind.

You are inventing a new doctrine. Who else here or outside or here advocates this?

 

[Taken]

You will never divide Jesus, Christ and Lord up.

But I don’t have to ….
God IS omnipresent…He Himself gives Himself Multiple Names and Titles to Notify ignorant MEN exactly What God is DOING When and Where.

The WHY appears to escape your knowledge AND Understanding.

He is the one and only unitary King of kings and Lord of lords.

And You think you are revealing NEWS? I have already addressed that Fact.

The fact you try is an indictment upon what you have convinced yourself.

Fact is God established What He is Called When, Why ….same as you do….

Does you children KNOW you are their father? Do your children call you dad?
Does your neighbors, friends, acquaintances, coworkers Also call you dad?

You are called by many names and titles….according to what role you portray at any given moment…

Forget That as well Applies to God???

It is obviously beyond your comprehension, thus your recourse is that Typical of a carnal minded man to lash out with accusations.

That is accounted to you, not me.

 

[WPM]

But I don’t have to ….
God IS omnipresent…He Himself gives Himself Multiple Names and Titles to Notify ignorant MEN exactly What God is DOING When and Where.

The WHY appears to escape your knowledge AND Understanding.


And You think you are revealing NEWS? I have already addressed that Fact.


Fact is God established What He is Called When, Why ….same as you do….

Does you children KNOW you are their father? Do your children call you dad?
Does your neighbors, friends, acquaintances, coworkers Also call you dad?

You are called by many names and titles….according to what role you portray at any given moment…

Forget That as well Applies to God???

It is obviously beyond your comprehension, thus your recourse is that Typical of a carnal minded man to lash out with accusations.

That is accounted to you, not me.

• He is Lord Jesus Christ at salvation.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ during salvation.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ at the second coming.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ for all eternity.

 

[Hobie]

Please give me Scripture that says: "Christ will take the saved saints to heaven, and they will be there for the thousand years, not wandering aimlessly with the wicked somewhere on earth"?

1Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 20:4, John 14:1-3....and many more...

 

[WPM]

1Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 20:4, John 14:1-3....and many more...

Not so.

1. Where does 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 mention heaven? It only mentions the sky.
2. Where does John 14:1-3 mention heaven? It only mentions where He is. The NJ comes down when. He comes.
3. Revelation 20:4 is talking about the dead soul reigning with Christ now in heaven.

I will repeat my question: please give me Scripture that says: "Christ will take the saved saints to heaven, and they will be there for the thousand years, not wandering aimlessly with the wicked somewhere on earth"?

 

[Taken]

• He is Lord Jesus Christ at salvation.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ during salvation.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ at the second coming.
• He is Lord Jesus Christ for all eternity.

The Word of God In Heaven IN Gods Mouth came forth out from Gods Mouth and donned A Body God Prepared By God, For Men TO See , and God Sent that Body To Earth to a Virgin womb.
When that Body was revealed to the World….
What DID God via His holy Angel say to Call that Body?

Messiah? No. Christ? No. Son of God? No. Lord? No. God? No.
God said call Him: Jesus, Son of man.

What DID men on Earth SEE? The Likeness of a Jewish man….Period.

What will men ON Earth SEE when Jesus Returns? The same which men SAW before…The likeness of a Jewish man.

The difference is The First time JESUS was revealed ON Earth , He came as a Servant, WITHOUT His REPUTATION!

When Jesus Returns He Does NOT come as a Servant, and He DOES come WITH His REPUTATION!

And in-between His First appearance ON Earth and His Next appearance He was revealed having MANY Titles, for particular Purposes.
Rabbi, Teacher, Word of God, Lord, Son of God, Lamb, Savior, Holy, Power, Spirit, Seed, Wisdom, on and on….

You Knowing all those things is one thing …
You not understanding the Role of EACH is apparent.

You retort with some nonsense of a man dividing Jesus ….when IT iS God who established and Revealed the Titles and Purpose of each Role.

The Lord Jesus IN Heaven…The Lord Descending to the Clouds, while the Lamb is IN Heaven opening the Seals, then the Lamb on Earth on Mt Sion with 144,000 and Tribesmen from JERUSALEM, then The Son of Man Seen by all sitting on a white Cloud in the air, Then Christ claiming His Kingdom and Throne on Earth….

Different Titles fulfilling different roles…that you do not recognize…nor comprehend.