22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[stunnedbygrace]

Where does it say that there will be a treaty for "one hour"? Or adding onto Scripture. I think you're trying to force some faulty Pretrib teaching that you have been influenced by in the past into the sacred text. It is actually talking about the duration of the the rule of the 10 kings.

Rev 17:12: "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

okay, well I’m not pretrib, so…
I see a possible correlation between that one hour and Babylon falling utterly in one hour. I’m not so certainly certain about all prophecy as you are. And I’m done working from one of the eschatological frameworks of men and then needing to cram it all into the framework. I’m just done with it. I no longer have that bias when I approach it.

 

[RLT63]

LOL. Not true!

Do you believe these sin offerings will make atonement for the priests and the altar in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will reconcile the house of Israel in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will sanctify the house of Israel in your future millennium?

No

 

[No Pre-TB]

If you were actually take the time to study the original text you would realize that the word "a" is not in the original Greek. Futurists use this verse as evidence that the beast is actually a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: The arithmós (number) gár (for) anthroópou (man) estín (is)… 666.” Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

Ive tried to tell him before, the word for man, anthropos, is the generic word for mankind because it involves men and women. 666 is the number of mankind, not a man. Secondly, a word study would show it’s a numerous assembly of mankind ie. What I believe logically as Citizens that make up the beast of the sea’s Kingdom. 666 can be used to refer to Solomon’s kingdom and all the wickedness in it. It also can be used by its meaning to represent 2 things:
600: What happened in the 600th year of Noah’s life?
60 and 6: What statue was built with these dimensions and what happened?

There will always be naysayers. I wish they’d say, that’s interesting, let me check on it as a possibility. Instead, we’re told that’s false. Lol

 

[WPM]

No

Ezekiel 45:15-17 says: “And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation [Heb. Kaphar] for them, saith the Lord GOD. All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation [Heb. Kaphar] for the house of Israel.”

There is nothing in this text that would give us any grounds to place this old covenant custom in a future millennial earth. What possible benefit could the widespread slaughter of innocent animals secure to reconcile mankind unto God? There is no evidence here that God would restore this bloodbath after the second coming under the guise of “the trespass offering,” “the meat offering,” “burnt offerings,” “peace offerings,” “meat offerings,” “drink offerings” and “sin offering” to reconcile anyone or anything before God.

On the Day of Atonement once a year the High Priest would make scarifies for his own sin, the sin of his family and Israel’s sin. Atonement is a very common word in the Old Testament but the word “propitiation” is preferred in the New Testament. The Hebrew word means Kaphar carries the basic idea of covering over. The Greek word used in the Greek Old Testament to interpret this word means appeasement or satisfaction, specifically toward God. It carries the sense of pacify, placate, expiate or cancel. It is typically interpreted “atonement” or “reconciliation” by the translators throughout the Old Testament. But, cover, pacify, placate, expiate or cancel what? The sin of the people that the sacrifice was made for.

Ezekiel 46:19-20 declares, “After he brought me through the entry, which was at the side of the gate, into the holy chambers of the priests, which looked toward the north: and, behold, there was a place on the two sides westward. Then said he unto me, This is the place where the priests shall boil the trespass offering and the sin offering, where they shall bake the meat offering; that they bear them not out into the utter court, to sanctify the people.”

Another purpose of “the trespass offering,” “the meat offering” and the “sin offering” was to "sanctify the people". There is no mention in the text of this being done as a remembrance, as many Premils claim. Aren't we sanctified by the blood of Christ?

 

[Truth7t7]

I already did, and you have no answer to it.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.

Yes WPM Denies There Will Be A Future, Literal, Human Man As Seen Below, Scary And Deceptive For Those That Would Follow Your Teachings, Hard To Believe "WOW"!

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Future Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ive tried to tell him before, the word for man, anthropos, is the generic word for mankind because it involves men and women. 666 is the number of mankind, not a man. Secondly, a word study would show it’s a numerous assembly of mankind ie. Citizens that make up the beast of the sea’s Kingdom. 666 is used to refer to Solomon’s kingdom and all the wickedness in it. It’s also used by its meaning to represent 2 things:
600: What happened in the 600thbyear of Noah’s life?
60 and 6: What statue was built with these dimensions and what happened?

The number of man, Or possibly a measure? I’ve thought it could be the portion of men who take the mark, as in 666 out of a thousand or roughly two thirds. And I noticed something odd, concerning Stanley Milgrams famous experiment that has been repeated numerous times by other researchers, who come up with basically the same results. There always, oddly, end up being one third who refuse to do what they are told by the “authority” figure because they think it is wrong and two thirds who do it even though it makes them uneasy simply because the authority figure tells them they have to. It’s even famously referred to now as “Milgrams Third.”

 

[RLT63]

People often ask, “If Jesus’ sacrifice was the only efficacious, once-for-all sacrifice to expiate sin (Heb. 9:12), why should animal sacrifices, which could never take away sin (10:4), be offered in the Millennial Temple during the Millennium?”

It is true the sacrifices in the Millennial Temple will not expiate sin, just as the Mosaic offerings could not take away sin (v. 4). Many conservative commentators believe these offerings will be memorials, similar to communion that Christians take in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. They believe the offerings will serve as visible reminders of Christ’s efficacious work.

Although true, it seems these sacrifices also will have an additional function. Scripture says they will be offered “to make atonement for the house of Israel” (Ezek. 45:17; cf. vv. 15, 20). This sacrificial system will not constitute a return to the Old Testament Mosaic Covenant or Law but will be a new system set up by the Lord with a dispensational distinctive applicable to the Millennial Kingdom.

The Hebrew word for atonement means “covering.” The blood sacrifices that made atonement never removed sin; they simply covered it, staving off God’s divine anger and punishment by providing a ransom. Christ’s death on the cross—not the Levitical sacrificial system—made it possible for people’s sins to be taken away.

The animal sacrifices during the Millennium will primarily remove ceremonial uncleanness and prevent human defilement of the Millennial Temple. This system will be needed because God’s glorious presence will again dwell on Earth in the midst of sinners.
This purging act propitiates God, enabling Him to dwell among
His people.

The atonement-cleansing was necessary in Leviticus because the Shekinah Glory dwelt in the Tabernacle (Ex. 40:34). God resided in the midst of sinful, unclean people. Similarly, Ezekiel predicted the return of God’s glory to the Millennial Temple. Thus people worshiping at the Temple will need to atone for their uncleanness, so it won’t cause defilement.

The future animal sacrifices will not deal with eternal salvation but, rather, with finite cleansing of impurities from everyone who survived the Great Tribulation (they will have mortal bodies) and the children born to them during Christ’s thousand-year reign. Those born will still have to trust Christ by faith to become saved.
Q: Why will people offer animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple? – Israel My Glory

Is there a Bible contradiction in Ezekiel 40–48?

 

[WPM]

People often ask, “If Jesus’ sacrifice was the only efficacious, once-for-all sacrifice to expiate sin (Heb. 9:12), why should animal sacrifices, which could never take away sin (10:4), be offered in the Millennial Temple during the Millennium?”

It is true the sacrifices in the Millennial Temple will not expiate sin, just as the Mosaic offerings could not take away sin (v. 4). Many conservative commentators believe these offerings will be memorials, similar to communion that Christians take in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. They believe the offerings will serve as visible reminders of Christ’s efficacious work.

Although true, it seems these sacrifices also will have an additional function. Scripture says they will be offered “to make atonement for the house of Israel” (Ezek. 45:17; cf. vv. 15, 20). This sacrificial system will not constitute a return to the Old Testament Mosaic Covenant or Law but will be a new system set up by the Lord with a dispensational distinctive applicable to the Millennial Kingdom.

The Hebrew word for atonement means “covering.” The blood sacrifices that made atonement never removed sin; they simply covered it, staving off God’s divine anger and punishment by providing a ransom. Christ’s death on the cross—not the Levitical sacrificial system—made it possible for people’s sins to be taken away.

The animal sacrifices during the Millennium will primarily remove ceremonial uncleanness and prevent human defilement of the Millennial Temple. This system will be needed because God’s glorious presence will again dwell on Earth in the midst of sinners.
This purging act propitiates God, enabling Him to dwell among
His people.

The atonement-cleansing was necessary in Leviticus because the Shekinah Glory dwelt in the Tabernacle (Ex. 40:34). God resided in the midst of sinful, unclean people. Similarly, Ezekiel predicted the return of God’s glory to the Millennial Temple. Thus people worshiping at the Temple will need to atone for their uncleanness, so it won’t cause defilement.

The future animal sacrifices will not deal with eternal salvation but, rather, with finite cleansing of impurities from everyone who survived the Great Tribulation (they will have mortal bodies) and the children born to them during Christ’s thousand-year reign. Those born will still have to trust Christ by faith to become saved.
Q: Why will people offer animal sacrifices in the Millennial Temple? – Israel My Glory

You totally avoided my last post. You have to!

You can always tell when somebody has lost the debate, they have to run to outside links in an attempt to rescue their exposed beliefs. Not surprisingly, Premillennialists do that all the time. Instead of running to the Word of God they run to man for help.

I do not debate with outside links. They cannot respond.

Hebrews 10:18 says, “there is no more offering for sin.”

You reject that. You say there will be countless more offerings for sin in some imaginary future millennium. You make the Holy Spirit out to be a liar.

You fail to see: Calvary completely finished the Old Testament shadow and type. That is why there is no more sacrifice for sin. I find your belief extraordinary. Honestly! This belief should not be allowed on an evangelical site. It is a direct assault upon the cross. It undermines the finished work of Christ. It abrogates the new covenant.

Hebrews 10:26 says, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.”

You reject that. You say there remains many more offerings for sin in some imaginary future age. You again make the Holy Spirit out to be a liar.

It is both alarming and sad how many (that sincerely profess Christ) champion the re-starting of rival sin offerings in the future to compete with Calvary when Christ fulfilled and eternally removed them at the cross. Most of this error has emanated from false teaching of men that should know better. The fact is, the New Testament totally forbids the resurrection of the old covenant including the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, the restarting of the abolished animal sacrifices, and the resuming of earthly high priest’s office, as part of a God-ordained arrangement. Their expectation to return to the Old Testament type, shadow and figure is gravely misplaced.

John 1:29 records: “John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

Hebrews 9:26: "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

1 John 3:5 confirms: “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”

1 John 1:7: "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

This is an ongoing effectual covenant that enables man to be forgiven.

Revelation 1:5 tells us that Christ “washed us from our sins in his own blood.”

The Levitical sacrifices could not put away sin. They continued for thousands of years involving innumerable sacrifices, but they did not remove one single sin. But the cross of Christ put away all the sin of God’s redeemed.

Hebrews 8:12 also says about repentant sinners: “their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

 

[No Pre-TB]

The future animal sacrifices will not deal with eternal salvation but, rather, with finite cleansing of impurities from everyone who survived the Great Tribulation (they will have mortal bodies) and the children born to them during Christ’s thousand-year reign. Those born will still have to trust Christ by faith to become saved.

Wouldnt they be presenting their own bodies as a living sacrifice? Animals defeats that purpose. The things we do are spiritual, not physical though we do use our hands, our minds, our feet to do good works.

I realize this is just me, but I feel like some have to articulate brining back animal sacrifices in order to bring back a literal temple in order to say some 7 year period is only for the Jews and not us cause we’re out of here. It’s mind boggling

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I realize this is just me, but I feel like some have to articulate brining back animal sacrifices in order to bring back a literal temple in order to say some 7 year period is only for the Jews and not us cause we’re out of here. It’s mind boggling

It’s not only for the Jews. But neither are the Jews excluded from that time of trouble coming on the whole world to test its people. 144,000 are excluded/kept safe through it, but 144,000 is an extremely small portion of Jews.
I don’t think it’s completely out of the realm of possibility that the temple will be rebuilt or even that the Jews begin animal sacrifices again. They do not believe, as a whole, that Jesus was sacrificed for them, so I can see it happening that the zealous sect that wants to begin sacrifices again convinces the others to do it.
This goes again, to the thought that it all has to be one way or another. Either the Jews are completely excluded OR it ONLY concerns the Jews.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you were actually take the time to study the original text you would realize that the word "a" is not in the original Greek. Futurists use this verse as evidence that the beast is actually a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: gár (for) esti (it is) arithmós (number) anthrōpos (man) kai (and) hautou (his) arithmós (number) chi xi sigma (666).

Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[RLT63]

You totally avoided my last post. You have to!

You can always tell when somebody has lost the debate, they have to run to outside links in an attempt to rescue their exposed beliefs. Not surprisingly, Premillennialists do that all the time. This is why Premillennialism should be rejected by all born again Christians. Instead of running to the Word of God they run to man for help.

I do not debate with outside links. They cannot respond.

Hebrews 10:18 says, “there is no more offering for sin.”

You reject that. You say there will be countless more offerings for sin in some imaginary future millennium. You make the Holy Spirit out to be a liar.

You fail to see: Calvary completely finished the Old Testament shadow and type. That is why there is no more sacrifice for sin. I find your belief extraordinary. Honestly! This belief should not be allowed on an evangelical site. It is a direct assault upon the cross. It undermines the finished work of Christ. It abrogates the new covenant.

Hebrews 10:26 says, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.”

You reject that. You say there remains many more offerings for sin in some imaginary future age. You again make the Holy Spirit out to be a liar.

It is both alarming and sad how many (that sincerely profess Christ) champion the re-starting of rival sin offerings in the future to compete with Calvary when Christ fulfilled and eternally removed them at the cross. Most of this error has emanated from false teaching of men that should know better. The fact is, the New Testament totally forbids the resurrection of the old covenant including the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, the restarting of the abolished animal sacrifices, and the resuming of earthly high priest’s office, as part of a God-ordained arrangement. Their expectation to return to the Old Testament type, shadow and figure is gravely misplaced.

John 1:29 records: “John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

Hebrews 9:26: "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

1 John 3:5 confirms: “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”

1 John 1:7: "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

This is an ongoing effectual covenant that enables man to be forgiven.

Revelation 1:5 tells us that Christ “washed us from our sins in his own blood.”

The Levitical sacrifices could not put away sin. They continued for thousands of years involving innumerable sacrifices, but they did not remove one single sin. But the cross of Christ put away all the sin of God’s redeemed.

Hebrews 8:12 also says about repentant sinners: “their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

I used to agree with you but I no longer do nor do I care to debate this issue. You either believe it's about a future temple or you don't. You are declaring people who believe in the millennium heretics. You think only your view is valid. I'm glad you have so much confidence but you may be wrong.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I lean towards it being man rather than a man but…it’s not really any difference to me. I see it more like…count the number of men of the beast or…the number of men who take his mark.
Once again, for me, it’s not only one way or only the other way.

 

[WPM]

I used to agree with you but I no longer do nor do I care to debate this issue. You either believe it's about a future temple or you don't. You are declaring people who believe in the millennium heretics. You think only your view is valid. I'm glad you have so much confidence but you may be wrong.

I have never deemed "people who believe in the millennium heretics," or do i believe that. Where do you get that?

My issue is: you refused to address the scriptural text, and run to some man's opinion online for support. You run when you are confronted with the sacred text. Obviously, your arguments cannot abide the Word of God. Amils rightly believe Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that you would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

 

[RLT63]

I have never deemed "people who believe in the millennium heretics," or do i believe that. Where do you get that?

My issue is: you refused to address the scriptural text, and run to some man's opinion online for support. You run when you are confronted with the sacred text. Obviously, your arguments cannot abide the Word of God. Amils rightly believe Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that you would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

Amillennialism is a valid view, so is premillennialism. I use to believe as you do about the animal sacrifices but after more study I changed my view. I'm not running from anything, I have had this debate before and neither side changes their mind. I don't have to prove or justify anything to you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Amillennialism is a valid view, so is premillennialism. I use to believe as you do about the animal sacrifices but after more study I changed my view. I'm not running from anything, I have had this debate before and neither side changes their mind. I don't have to prove or justify anything to you.

If your mind is being renewed, I would think that necessarily means your views of things change so…I’d say you’re in a better place than someone whose mind is not changing at all. :)

 

[WPM]

Amillennialism is a valid view, so is premillennialism. I use to believe as you do about the animal sacrifices but after more study I changed my view. I'm not running from anything, I have had this debate before and neither side changes their mind. I don't have to prove or justify anything to you.

Yes, you do have to prove your position and justify it if you want anyone here to take you serious. The first principle of evidence is: "he who allowed this must prove." All you've done so far is duck around the obvious. That is because you have nothing to support your theory. If you had you would give it. Now, will you address the Ezekiel passages that expose your beliefs?

 

[WPM]

Amillennialism is a valid view, so is premillennialism. I use to believe as you do about the animal sacrifices but after more study I changed my view. I'm not running from anything, I have had this debate before and neither side changes their mind. I don't have to prove or justify anything to you.

You say that you do not believe that these animal sacrifices that are made as sin offerings in your supposed future millennium will not reconcile or sanctify the house of Israel, but your proof texts says the opposite. Why will you not acknowledge your error?

 

[RLT63]

Yes, you do have to prove your position and justify it if you want anyone here to take you serious. The first principle of evidence is: "he who allowed this must prove." All you've done so far is duck around the obvious. That is because you have nothing to support your theory. If you had you would give it. Now, will you address the Ezekiel passages that expose your beliefs?

Forum rules prevent me from responding in kind.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

LOL. Not true!

Do you believe these sin offerings will make atonement for the priests and the altar in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will reconcile the house of Israel in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will sanctify the house of Israel in your future millennium?

That’s a silly question…if someone thinks a temple will be rebuilt and the Jews will begin to sacrifice animals again, it means they have to also believe your statements there? ANY Christian would answer no to those…even someone who thinks an attempt to begin sacrificing will happen in the future does not believe it will atone, reconcile or sanctify.
Edit: oh yeah, I found the post. Disturbing. I’m not sure I ever heard that…view? I’m puzzled by it. The millennium can’t be viewed as “troublous times” as it says it will be built during troublous times…