22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are told the ten horns are ten kings. So it is obvious the horns are symbolic. We are not told they are a huge but unspecified number of kings. The number ten still remains the number ten. The horns are symbolic of kings, but the number ten is not symbolic.
So…the answer I give is - both.

Wow, you just completely missed his point. Remember, you were talking about time periods. That was the context. And he highlighted the phrase "one hour" in Revelation 17:10. So, he's asking you how you interpret the "one hour" in that verse. Do you see that as a literal 60 minutes?

 

[Truth7t7]

Where in Ezekiel 43:18-27 does it say anything about animal sacrifices being performed as a memorial? I see them described as sin offerings, but not as memorials. So, show me.

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not even the slightest chance. When those seals are opened you would know what tribulation is. Hopefully you will make the rapture that occurs before those seals are opened.

No such thing as a pretribulation rapture as you claim, the church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and second coming just as Luke 21:25-28 teaches

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course, another interpretation of our "departure" is not
"away from the faith" But: "away from the earth, 'caught up'"
According to Rightly Divided Scriptures, Within God's Context
Of His Mystery:

God's Great Grace Departure

With no prerequisites, Amen?

Grace, Peace, JOY, And Comfort!...

I believe that is an interpretation based on doctrinal bias and nothing more. Paul was not talking about something there that he didn't write about elsewhere. He wrote about it mass departure from the faith here as well:

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?

No, it isn't.

 

[Truth7t7]

If it's meant to be exact then why doesn't it just say 3 and a half years or something similar? The fact that it says a time, times and half a time suggests that it's not being literal to me. If that's literal then I find that to be a strange way of being literal.

Scripture clearly identifies the time-times-half a time as being "Literal" 1260 days or 3.5 years

You don't want to acknowledge this future 3.5 year tribulation, because you believe and teach it was fulfilled in the reformed preterist 66-70AD Roman armies in Jerusalem's destruction

Daniel 12:7KJV
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 12:6 & 14KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The Woman in the wilderness during the future tribulation, they will be in the wilderness of Gilead, Bashan, and Carmel, and fed by God manna from heaven, as the world watches in astonishment

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:14-17KJV
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

 

[jeffweeder]

The sin offerings in the Old Testament were symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus would make. The sin offerings in the future will be symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus made.

What is offered in the future? If its animal blood, then that is a poor match.
Besides Jesus himself will be a living visible testimony of his sacrifice through his wounds.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it isn't.

I fully agree Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 isn't a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's nothing more than the 2nd Zerubabbel temple built in 536BC and destroyed by the Romans in 70AD

 

[RLT63]

What is offered in the future? If its animal blood, then that is a poor match.
Besides Jesus himself will be a living visible testimony of his sacrifice through his wounds.

You either believe those 9 chapters are about the future or you don't. If you don't I'm not going to argue with you about it

 

[jeffweeder]

You either believe those 9 chapters are about the future or you don't. If you don't I'm not going to argue with you about it

I don't.

43
5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner courtyard; and behold, the glory and brilliance of the Lord filled the temple.

6 And I heard One speaking to me from the temple, while a man was standing beside me. 7 And He [the Lord] said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the sons (descendants) of Israel forever.


Acts 17:24
The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but [He entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the very presence of God on our behalf;

 

[WPM]

The sin offerings in the Old Testament were symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus would make. The sin offerings in the future will be symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus made.

Where do you get that in the New Testament? Where do you get that in Revelation 20? Randy K needs to read these posts and realize is in a total minority on this topic amongst Premils.

 

[RLT63]

Where do you get that in the New Testament? Where do you get that in Revelation 20? Randy K needs to read these posts and realize is in a total minority on this topic amongst Premils.

See post #5769. Don't know who Randy K is

 

[covenantee]

Of course, another interpretation of our "departure" is not
"away from the faith" But: "away from the earth, 'caught up'"

Dealt with here:

Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a 'Physical Departure' (i.e. the Rapture)? | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

 

[WPM]

See post #5769. Don't know who Randy K is

Are you talking about Ezekiel 40–48?

 

[farouk]

No such thing as a pretribulation rapture as you claim, the church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and second coming just as Luke 21:25-28 teaches

@Truth7t7 I don't think it's the church in view in Luke 21....................

 

[The Light]

No such thing as a pretribulation rapture as you claim, the church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and second coming just as Luke 21:25-28 teaches

Luke 21: WHAT?

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You can hang around. I hope to be standing before the Son of Man.

 

[The Light]

@Truth7t7 I don't think it's the church in view in Luke 21....................

It's not. But sadly he is not aware.

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7 I don't think it's the church in view in Luke 21....................

Of course they are "Christians" being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ in Luke 21

Luke 21:17KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

 

[Marilyn C]

@Marilyn C I think the Matthew 24 and Luke 21 passages are talking about tribulation saints rather than the church.

Hi farouk,

I believe as you do. I don`t see where I was talking about those scriptures. Perhaps it was `Truth7t7.`

Marilyn.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi farouk,

I believe as you do. I don`t see where I was talking about those scriptures. Perhaps it was `Truth7t7.`

Marilyn.

Luke 21:17 below represents the Church on earth, of course they are "Christians" being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ in Luke 21

Luke 21:17KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.