22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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WPM

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You've just given a lengthy argument to show that God went back on His Word. Yes, change came, but not change that makes God a liar.

Much love!

With the first advent of Christ, God introduced a new religious arrangement that changed the format of God’s engagement with man, and also enlarged the geographical range of His grace. Israel lost its exclusive privileged place under the new economy. The theocratic system was dismantled. The old covenant ceremonial system was replaced with a better, stronger, broader, more glorious and longer-lasting covenant. Under the new covenant there was absolutely no difference placed between Jews and Gentiles. Both enjoy equal status through faith in Christ. The New Testament expanded the Gospel thrust to embrace all nations. The new covenant knew no ethnic, political or religious boundaries. It was a global trans-national scheme that targeted a fallen world.

A lot of Christians today overlook this reality because they have a bias and faulty perspective of natural Israel. They make the mistake of viewing physical Israel today through Old Testament glasses. They fail to see that the Old Testament dispensation has gone forever and the New Testament era has fully and wholly superseded it. The old system has been totally dismantled and abolished because it was only ever intended to be a temporary covenant with an expiration date. Its conclusion occurred when Christ died on the cross. We see that with the ripping of the curtain in the temple at the very moment Jesus breathed His last breath (Matthew 27:50-51, Mark 15:37-38 and Luke 23:45-46). It therefore has no further purpose for time and eternity.

Under the new covenant, Gentile believers are being integrated into the citizenship of Israel. God’s promises and blessings have been extended beyond the righteous remnant of Israel to believing Gentiles who accept Christ as Lord and Savior. They are being grafted into the good Israeli olive tree by way of salvation throughout this intra-Advent period. Gentiles are being added to the household of Israel through faith in Israel’s Messiah. Under this Jewish umbrella, Gentiles enjoy favor with God and intimacy with Christ. They are now living stones in the New Testament temple. This renewed and expanded Israel includes countless Gentiles from all the nations of the world. The elect of God has grown from one single small physical nation in the Old Testament to incorporating millions of believers throughout the world today.

Ignorance of New Testament truth leads many to a distorted and erroneous understanding of Old Testament truth. Ironically, and paradoxically, especially allowing for how they describe themselves, many Futurists choose to live in the past. They understand ethnic Israel today in an old covenant sense, rather than a new covenant context. It is as if the old covenant is still active and valid and the new covenant has yet to arrive. Futurists seem unable (or unwilling) to recognize the seismic shift that occurred through the introduction of the new covenant. When pressed, they continually run back to the Old Testament for some type of support for a favored place for national Israel, a return of the Jews to their ancient land boundaries, the reintroduction of the old covenant apparatus, including a rebuilt physical temple, animal blood sacrifices, and a restored Old Testament priesthood. They have to pitch their tent in the Hebrew Scriptures because they have absolutely no endorsement in the New Testament for their theological model.

Sensible and enlightened Bible scholars place greater emphasis on the New Testament because it is the fuller revelation and it is where we now reside. God’s truth has been a gradual progressive unfolding and unveiling of truth to mankind from the beginning. The change and advancement that came with the New Testament era did not jettison the old Hebrew promises but rather fulfilled them. The doctrinal light became a lot clearer with Christ’s appearance and vivid illumination of the whole dynamic between the Old and the New Testament and the first and second advents. Our Lord removed the existing vail, dispelled the religious mist and has shed much-needed light on God’s redemptive plan.
 

theefaith

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"They".

Thanks for the guffaw.

the KJV says trinity or triune God!

1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

one what? One God! One divine nature!
 
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covenantee

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the KJV says trinity or triune God!

1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

one what? One God! One divine nature!
The legitimacy of a post is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation marks in its content.

And you've misunderstood what you're responding to.
 

Truth7t7

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What is the purpose of these animal sacrifices in your supposed future millennium? Why will you not tell us?
The same reason why you haven't answered my 6 responses to your false claims above, regarding the future human man (The Beast) that you deny will come, being bound by reformed preterist eschatology in false teachings
 
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covenantee

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the KJV says trinity or triune God!

1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

one what? One God! One divine nature!
the KJV says trinity or triune God!

1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

one what? One God! One divine nature!
Interestingly, the KJV appropriately includes the following description in the dedication which was written to commemorate it:

"which hath given such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed"

It was referring to the apostate papacy.
 

theefaith

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Interestingly, the KJV appropriately includes the following description in the dedication which was written to commemorate it:

"which hath given such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed"

It was referring to the apostate papacy.

then you do not believe Jesus Christ!
Matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Jn 20:21 same mission power authority as Christ
Matt 28:19 Jn 16:13 teach without error all men unto salvation
Jn 8:32 know truth
 

CadyandZoe

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You did not present one single Old Testament Scripture text here that shows "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People." There is nothing there that states that was the purpose for these blood sacrifices. You force that into the text to support this error. Is belonging to God, embracing the cross of Christ, and possessing the Holy Spirit not adequate enough to prove someone is "holy"? If that is not enough for you and for them then their destiny is not the world to come but the Lake of Fire. Obviously, the blood of Christ is totally ineffective for the religious phonies that swamp your alleged future millennium.

The reality is: you seem to be as ignorant of the meaning of the old covenant practices as you are of the meaning of the new covenant practices.

What covenant are these millennial sacrifices under? Is this the old covenant restarted or is it a new old covenant? It is definitely not the new covenant!

You have invented a false doctrine here that is offensive to God, contradicts the sacred text and diminishes the work of Christ on the cross. This is a very dangerous error you are promoting here. I urge you to turn.
I gave you everything you need.
 

covenantee

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then you do not believe Jesus Christ!
Matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Jn 20:21 same mission power authority as Christ
Matt 28:19 Jn 16:13 teach without error all men unto salvation
Jn 8:32 know truth
"Man of sin" in the KJV dedication.

The apostate papacy.
 

WPM

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I gave you everything you need.

No, you did not! Please do not talk on my behalf. You absolutely fudged the issue again. You have to, because you have nothing. You are twisting Scripture. The reader can see all this.

Which Scripture do you believe actually says that animal sacrifices make one "holy" (in the past or the future) as you allege? Give me one Scripture please!
 

WPM

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Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

You are so stubborn. Futurists use this verse as evidence that the beast is actually a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: The arithmós (number) gár (for) anthroópou (man) estín (is)… 666.” Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).
 
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WPM

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Scripture below identifies the man of sin with the personal pronoun "Him" a human man

"Them" and "They" below are identifying a group of unsaved, not the "Him" living inside this group as you falsely claim

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10KJV
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And? So what! What does that prove? 2 Timothy 3:16-17 makes a similar statement, only from the opposite point of view, saying, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

I don’t believe anyone would argue with any credence that this title is restricted to one lone human being – quite the opposite. It is speaking of a composite man. It is not limited to only males, it also embraces females. It is a generic term. It is representative of all the redeemed. The phrase “the man of God” in 2 Timothy 3:16 is a broad expression representing all of the righteous or all those “in Christ.” Likewise, the phrase “the man of sin” could be viewed as embodying the antithesis group – all the wicked – rather than any one particular individual.

This doesn't in any way suggest that there is one singular man of God. No, it is rather descriptive of the spiritual influence that marks the righteous. Likewise, the man of sin (lawlessness) is descriptive of the spiritual influence that marks sinful man. We are clearly looking at the spirit of this world, the spirit of Antichrist, the spirit of error.

I believe another major weakness in the he-and-him argument is seen in how readily and effortlessly Futurists get their head round calling the whore of Babylon “she” and “her” – even though they would never dream of insisting that she was a literal physical woman.

This totally undermines the literalist reasoning!
 
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WPM

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Your human reason is silenced in scriptural truth below

The Beast will have the unsaved world's allegiance, and he will be a individual human man as scripture teaches in Revelation chapter 13 and 19 as seen below, described by personal pronouns He, His, Him, that will be cast living into the lake of fire as seen in Revelation 19:20

Revelation 13:4-8KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You are avoiding my point again. I addressed your distraction on my last post. Who is this human that will get the support of all the unelect?
 

WPM

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The 7 heads and 10 Horns are symbolic representations that are explained in Revelation chapter 17, your claims are a diversion from the basic interpretation found in scripture

More avoidance. What human has (or will have) currently got 7 head please? What are these 7 heads then?
 

WPM

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"Sea" in the Revelation represents multitudes of people, The Beast rises out of these multitudes of people

Your claim in trying to make "Sea" literal oceans of water is laughable, just showing how far you will go to prop up your self guided interpretations

Revelation 17:15KJV
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

I do not see you addressing point number 4. Where in Scripture does it show human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3)?
 

CadyandZoe

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No, you did not! Please do not talk on my behalf. You absolutely fudged the issue again. You have to, because you have nothing. You are twisting Scripture. The reader can see all this.

Which Scripture do you believe actually says that animal sacrifices make one "holy" (in the past or the future) as you allege? Give me one Scripture please!
I gave you the scriptures. Do you not understand that God commanded the animal sacrifices? Have not even read the OT? Seems like you haven't. No wonder.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are "Partial Preterist" in your Eschatology

GotQuestions.org

Preterism is the eschatological view that the “end times” prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled. So, when we read what the Bible says about the tribulation, we are reading history. Preterism is divided into two camps: full (or consistent) preterism and partial preterism. Full preterism takes an extreme view that all prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled in one way or another. Partial preterists take a more moderate approach, and many partial preterists consider full preterists to be guilty of heresy.

Those who hold to partial preterism believe that the prophecies in Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation (with the exception of the last two or three chapters) have already been fulfilled and were fulfilled no later than the first century AD.
What is wrong with you? Why will you not accept what I tell you about what I believe? I have told you several times now that I do NOT believe that all of Matthew 24 is fulfilled. Only Matthew 24:15-22. So, that is different than what partial preterists believe. Also, I do NOT believe that all of Revelation except for the last two or three chapters is fulfilled. That also is different than what partial preterists believe. Are you paying attention to what I'm telling you right now? Don't forget it. So, stop your foolish nonsense of calling me a partial preterist or I will have to put you on my ignore list. Currently, there are a grand total of 0 people on that list.
 
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