22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Don't forget your proclaimed gifts of assumption and speculation?

Jesus Is The Lord

Informed assumption and speculation.

Assumptions...
...How did Judas feel about Jesus?
...How come the kid with the loaves and fishes feel about giving up his lunch?
...Did Abraham and Lot's wife's get along?

Speculation...
... any answer you come up with to the above questions.

If something is not specifically spelled out in the Bible we would have to make some assumptions. They can be wild or informed.
And speculation is just another form of the same. In both of these we use our human knowledge(flawed as it is) and Scripture(sometimes missing details) and we can fill in some blanks with our God given imagination.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Your opinions are worthless without hard evidence.

Link/paste your source, or forget it.
Any war deniers are useless. It is obvious there have been many hellish horrible wars pregnant with atrocities, and crimes and horrors and death. You don't get to select one and call that THE Great Tribulation.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
dad post #4103 removed (to support your darkness)

dad Post #4103 before revision
The Great Tribulation is a certain time and event. There are no others. Your attempts at belittling the truth to support your darkness are exposed.
Right, that is why I said I fixed it. Does it suit your sensibilities now?
 

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
He didn't that is my point. What he was saying to John in Rev 20 is what he was saying to John in John 5......unless he changed his mind....something God would never do of course.

What didn't Jesus change His mind about again?
And you just inferred that Jesus is possibly not God.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Jesus had said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
During the tribulation, the Jewish Zealots tormented and slaughtered fellow Jewish countrymen by the thousands. This had never happened before, and has never happened since.

Matthew 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
So was the sun dark after and all tribes on earth mourned, and we saw the son of man return!!??

No. Obviously. You are beating a dead horse.

"Now after these were slain, the zealots and the multitude of the Idumeans fell upon the people as upon a flock of profane animals, and cut their throats; and for the ordinary sort, they were destroyed in what place soever they caught them. But for the noblemen and the youth, they first caught them and bound them, and shut them up in prison, and put off their slaughter, in hopes that some of them would turn over to their party; but not one of them would comply with their desires, but all of them preferred death before being enrolled among such wicked wretches as acted against their own country. But this refusal of theirs brought upon them terrible torments; for they were so scourged and tortured, that their bodies were not able to sustain their torments, till at length, and with difficulty, they had the favor to be slain. Those whom they caught in the day time were slain in the night, and then their bodies were carried out and thrown away, that there might be room for other prisoners; and the terror that was upon the people was so great, that no one had courage enough either to weep openly for the dead man that was related to him, or to bury him; but those that were shut up in their own houses could only shed tears in secret, and durst not even groan without great caution, lest any of their enemies should hear them; for if they did, those that mourned for others soon underwent the same death with those whom they mourned for. Only in the night time they would take up a little dust, and throw it upon their bodies; and even some that were the most ready to expose themselves to danger would do it in the day time: and there were twelve thousand of the better sort who perished in this manner." Wars of the Jews IV, 5.3

Immediately after the Tribulation Jesus spoke about this also happens

Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Remind us when this happened in 70AD? Ha

Sorry, your claims are not even comical so much as tragic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,977
3,764
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture(sometimes missing details) and we can fill in some blanks with our God given imagination.
As you have done regarding your interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6, speculation, assumption, and imagination

Jesus Is The Lord
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
1,272
1,065
113
61
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What didn't Jesus change His mind about again?
And you just inferred that Jesus is possibly not God.

Good grief man. If anything, I inferred Jesus is God. He is by the way.
Look at what I said

He didn't that is my point. What he was saying to John in Rev 20 is what he was saying to John in John 5......unless he changed his mind...something God would never do of course.



He didnt change his mind regarding when people do not come into judgment.
Most take rev 20 to mean that once we are bodily resurrected, we will not come into the judgement. This is not what Jesus taught in Jn 5.
Please tell me you understand me now David. God bless.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,977
3,764
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right, that is why I said I fixed it. Does it suit your sensibilities now?
And the reason I posted it for the forum to see

You falsely made a statement in a personal attack "Support Your Darkness" and you removed this false slander in a direct personal attack

Yes you did the correct thing by removing this false personal attack in slander

Jesus Is The Lord
 

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Good grief man. If anything, I inferred Jesus is God. He is by the way.

He didnt change his mind regarding when people do not come into judgment.
Most take rev 20 to mean that once we are bodily resurrected, we will not come into the judgement. This is not what Jesus taught in Jn 5.
Please tell me you understand me now David. God bless.

You have mis-read your own references. Your John 5 reference is about condemnation... not judgement. (off the hip here as I don't have your exact references to hand)
Maybe ask a question of me before saying "Most take... to mean...". Why not find out what I think and then address that?
Or you just don't care what anyone else thinks?
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
11,977
3,764
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where in the Bible did Jesus say He was Lord?
1 Corinthians 12:3KJV
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
1 Corinthians 12:3KJV
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Where did JESUS say He was Lord?
Can you not read a simple question.
You got it wrong again.
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
1,272
1,065
113
61
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You have mis-read your own references. Your John 5 reference is about condemnation... not judgement. (off the hip here as I don't have your exact references to hand)
Maybe ask a question of me before saying "Most take... to mean...". Why not find out what I think and then address that?
Or you just don't care what anyone else thinks?

I care what you think.
There is no condemnation for those in Jesus. I believe that is a clear reference to escaping the Judgment of the unsaved on the last day.
Do we share this blessed hope David?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,288
2,605
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It also ends the rule of all nations, and is the period the angels pour out the vials etc. The waters are made into blood, every island moves,there are two witnesses who die and rise again, etc etc etc. It is a well defined and specific time that is coming, and cannot be confused with any other time.

I agree. The Great Tribulation, though initially referring to the punishment of the Jewish People, seems to be something that encompasses the whole world in the endtimes. Just as Israel fell away and has been punished, so also many Christian nations have turned to apostasy and are now entering into a period of their punishment.

No. The evil leader of old was a forerunner and shadow of the final king to come, and was mentioned as a launching point into the future where the prophesy is about.

Not true. Half of the seven years of the end is the great trib and Jesus said it started exactly when the abomination of desolation is set up. It has no relation to any long period anywhere.
The confusion is thinking there are two different ones. Jesus said the one spoken of by Daniel, not 'one of the ones' spoken of by Daniel!
No. The time specified in Dan 9 for the abominations is the wrath of God, the finishing of all things prophesied and the pouring out of the judgments decreed.
Daniel 9:27
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations {will come} one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The one who makes desolate is the beast. Not God.

It's only a guess, but I'm thinking the desolator is Rome, which is destroyed by Antichrist in the last days.

No they both are about the very end. It is not hard to see looking at the passages. There are no duo abominations of desolations. Only one.

That is fuzzy nonsense. The man of sin is a title of a specific man who also is known by other titles and names. The AntiChrist is the one known for proclaiming he is God.

You're welcome to believe as you feel convicted. I was just sharing, brother.
 

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I care what you think.
There is no condemnation for those in Jesus. I believe that is a clear reference to escaping the Judgment of the unsaved on the last day.
Do we share this blessed hope David?

I don't see it as a clear reference to escaping Judgement. Nope.
I expect to be judged. I don't expect condemnation.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,495
448
83
65
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
And the reason I posted it for the forum to see

You falsely made a statement in a personal attack "Support Your Darkness" and you removed this false slander in a direct personal attack

Yes you did the correct thing by removing this false personal attack in slander

Jesus Is The Lord
I toned it down not for the sake of anything false, but for the sake of being more appropriate for a forum, tks
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
1,272
1,065
113
61
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I don't see it as a clear reference to escaping Judgement. Nope.
I expect to be judged. I don't expect condemnation.

Yes Me to.
That has to be what Jesus meant in Jn 5. Judged as righteous through our belief with no condemnation on great white judgment day.
 

David Boyer

Active Member
Aug 27, 2022
467
139
43
55
Moncton,NB
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes Me to.
That has to be what Jesus meant in Jn 5. Judged as righteous through our belief with no condemnation on great white judgment day.

No condemnation on that day but judgement yes.
Most Christians will stand at the Great White Throne though.

EDIT:
I should say... Most Christians will be Resurrected at the GWT for judgement. As per Rev 20:12.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.