Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope

[Brakelite]

You're playing word games! Jesus mentioned God burning people alive several times!

Indeed He did. Some with "many stripes," some with not so many, according to their works. In other words, degrees of punishment. But the end is always the same. Death.

 

[Jack]

Indeed He did. Some with "many stripes," some with not so many, according to their works. In other words, degrees of punishment. But the end is always the same. Death.

IOW you didn't even read the Scriptures I quoted! Your opinions do not overrule the Bible.

Luke 16:22-24
22 The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

 

[VictoryinJesus]

See above.

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

I’m curious why you never consider if day and night continues forever? Or have you considered it? I mean as we observe it by sight of the sun coming up to give its light called day and the sun setting where the moon gives its lesser light called night?

Does this continue forever “the cycle repeating every 29.5 days”? ‘The eight lunar phases are, in order: new moon, waxing crescent, first quarter, waxing gibbous, full moon, waning gibbous, last quarter, and waning crescent. The cycle repeats once a month (every 29.5 days).’ -in each of those phases from the earths perspective, also the sun is necessary
For example “Also known as a half-moon. - Half of the moon's visible surface is illuminated by the sun during this phase.”
Is this above “they will be tormented day and night forever”?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Indeed He did. Some with "many stripes," some with not so many, according to their works. In other words, degrees of punishment. But the end is always the same. Death.

But what if with “many stripes” is better than with few stripes? I think of where Paul spoke of their being set forth as examples 1 Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God has set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

James 5:10-11 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. [11] Behold, we count them happy which endure. (Significant, we still do count those happy who endure) You have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Paul spoke of receiving many stripes. stripes above measure. We are told to not despise the chastisement of God for what Father does not correct their children? How we have had father(s) who corrected us after the flesh, but Gods’ chastisement is for our profit so that we may share in His Holiness, bearing the peaceable Fruit.

Looking closer at then who are those minsters who receive more stripes …consider also when the disciples went in and they were stripped and beaten and cried out to God to be given more boldness, crying out to God to increase their Faith.

Not all stripes lead to death, but the stripes of God lead to Life, to share in the peaceable Fruit. There is a difference in those after the flesh which give you stripes after their one pleasure. And By Bearing His Stripes you are saved which leads not to death but the end there is Life.
2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Looking for minsters who have been given many stripes, “yet we Live” for when we are weak, then we are strong.

 

[Jack]

I’m curious why you never consider if day and night continues forever? Or have you considered it? I mean as we observe it by sight of the sun coming up to give its light called day and the sun setting where the moon gives its lesser light called night?

I have considered it indeed. Why would God say, they will be tormented FOREVER in the fire? Just as Jesus said in the Gospels.

Does this continue forever “the cycle repeating every 29.5 days”? ‘The eight lunar phases are, in order: new moon, waxing crescent, first quarter, waxing gibbous, full moon, waning gibbous, last quarter, and waning crescent. The cycle repeats once a month (every 29.5 days).’ -in each of those phases from the earths perspective, also the sun is necessary
For example “Also known as a half-moon. - Half of the moon's visible surface is illuminated by the sun during this phase.”
Is this above “they will be tormented day and night forever”?

How can the streets be pure gold? Will the City and streets be "pure gold like clear glass"?

I don't know but Jesus said it. I believe Him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have considered it indeed. Why would God say, they will be tormented FOREVER in the fire? Just as Jesus said in the Gospels.

When you said you have considered it. What did you come up with on their being tormented day and night? Do you think the day and night we view every morning with the rising sun and the setting of the sun every evening as night comes …will be continue forever in the place often referred to as hell where they are torment forever?

How can the streets be paved with gold?

It wouldn’t matter what I say, I have already had this discussion with someone years back who tried to convince me the streets of heaven are made of the purest quality of gold. The kind of gold sought after for jewelry; were jewelers have their ways to test its purity. To me the streets of heaven are paved with Faith. Something more precious I think to God than all the gold in the world

 

[Jack]

When you said you have considered it. What did you come up with on their being tormented day and night? Do you think the day and night we view every morning with the rising sun and the setting of the sun every evening as night comes …will be continue forever in the place often referred to as hell where they are torment forever?

Are you implying that there is no eternal fire/Hell fire/furnace of fire/Lake of fire?

It wouldn’t matter what I say, I have already had this discussion with someone years back who tried to convince me the streets of heaven are made of the purest quality of gold. The kind of gold sought after for jewelry; were jewelers have their ways to test its purity. To me the streets of heaven are paved with Faith. Something more precious I think to God than all the gold in the world

Revelation 21:18-21
18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

I'm a literalist! I don't know any better than to believe Jesus.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

What is the foundation it is being built upon?

 

[Jack]

What is the foundation it is being built upon?

I haven't seen it yet but I'm sure looking forward to it!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I haven't seen it yet but I'm sure looking forward to it!

Maybe you are right but we are told Revelation 21:10-14 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, [11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; [12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: [13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. [14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

First, the city descends out of heaven from God, same as we know if this house dissolves, we have a more sure house (there is the same discussed in the thread: never ending, eternal, sure, continuous) given of God.

Mostly focused on, her light, this City of Gods’ Light and Glory was like unto a stone most precious, even like unto a jasper stone, clear as crystal. then a few verses later: Revelation 21:23-24 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it(significant to me with what you’ve quoted as their being tormented day and night in need of the sun and the moon): for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. [24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Earlier the Word Reveals a City with Light as a precious stone, even like unto a jasper stone clear as crystal…then we read the Lamb is the Light thereof. We acknowledge His being the precious stone rejected of men but received/accepted of God. The corner stone. The foundation laid of God and not men.
Revelation 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
I’m not trying to make things up concerning “the city was pure gold” but I don’t see how we can go from “as a precious stone” and the walls of jasper/ and the city pure Gold, like unto clear glass turning everything else into our idea of Gold. Streets made of Gold. Walls made of precious stones with the names of the Apostles written therein. I’m only sharing with you why I think in referring to “a precious stone”
Laid of God, the corner Stone. And as Living Stones. I can’t visualize then God adorning the outward walls and gates with what men call precious. We have the verse concerning “let the woman” adorning be not what is outward of gold and braiding of the hair, but let it be that Meek Spirit of Christ within (just like the City of God) which is precious in the Sight of God.

All those things “Gold streets” I genuinely do not think can be compared to the Lamb within which Light reflects all those “adornments” of what men desire of gold. I genuinely don’t buy the Light therein is as a precious stone …is a literal stone rejected of men but Loved and favored of God. Focused on the splendor of the pure gold the City God is made of…to me contradicts the very nature and ways of God who builds a City far better than our definition of —-built with pure gold -quality tested in what it is made of—being tested by Fire that it may prove to be found not unto the praise of men but being found unto the Praise of God.

Will we be disappointed if the City of God is not made of pure Gold as we imagined? Will it be any less desirable considering the Lamb being the Light therein, and they shall walk in the Light (as we are instructed to walk not in the darkness(least you stumble, not seeing where you are going) but walk in the Light there of.)

I’m not trying to make it up. What is more hopeful than a City made out of a heap of our definition of dazzling, luminous pure gold…not as the gold chains we wear around our necks which can be melted by fire?

 

[Jack]

Will we be disappointed if the City of God is not made of pure Gold as we imagined?

Jesus stated it as FACT!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus stated it as FACT!

Same as one must eat of My flesh and drink of My blood, Jack. Is this a fact?

 

[Jack]

Same as one must eat of My flesh and drink of My blood, Jack. Is this a fact?

He clearly explained what He meant. Didn't you read it?

Matthew 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[NotTheRock]

Jesus stated it as FACT!

Perhaps Jesus was speaking allegorically in order for us to get the big picture.

 

[Jack]

Perhaps Jesus was speaking allegorically in order for us to get the big picture.

You mean Jesus lied?

 

[Wick Stick]

Talking of irony. You quoted the Bible, but don't believe what you quoted. The Bible didn't say everlasting punishment as a verb... continuous ongoing process. It says punishment...a noun... Finished event. Death. No resurrection. No life.

That seems to be a pattern with Jack. In multiple topics, I've seen him post verses that absolutely refute what he says right above them.

 

[Jack]

That seems to be a pattern with Jack. In multiple topics, I've seen him post verses that absolutely refute what he says right above them.

Then why don't you refute my comments? Can't? Your opinions do not overrule the Scriptures I quote. Hell will be filled with BILLIONS of humans who don't believe in Hell. Do you believe in the everlasting fire that Jesus warned us about several times?

 

[St. SteVen]

Wick Stick said:
That seems to be a pattern with Jack. In multiple topics, I've seen him post verses that absolutely refute what he says right above them.

Then why don't you refute my comments?

No need.
You've already done all the work. - LOL

[

 

[Jack]

No need.
You've already done all the work. - LOL

Revelation 21:8
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,

 

[Brakelite]

Revelation 21:8
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,

No-one would argue with you that there is a lake of fire. The objections begin when people claim

• there are sinners now in that lake calling it hell...
• that those sinners don't die believing them to be immortal...
• but worst of all, the entire scenario of eternal torment a direct and catastrophic contradiction to the character of God as revealed in His word, which is blasphemy against His name.

You need a reappraisal of your understanding based on Who God is. That is the first most vital step you need to take in considering eternal torment. As I said, the lake of fire is a thing. The question is when, and where, and who goes there and for how long.
Read exodus 34:5-7 where God Himself appeared to Moses on Mt Sinai and told Moses His name. It described Who God is...what He is like. READ IT SEVERAL TIMES. Ingrain it into your memory banks. That is the God you claim you worship. Now harmonize that with your ideas on ET. Explain the glaring contradiction. Never mind the scripture you repeat and what you think they mean. If those meanings don't harmonize with exodus 34, then don't you think you need to change your ideas?