Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope
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Here we go, what is seen (is temporal) and what is unseen (is eternal) these being contrasted between them
2 Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Why would there be eternal fire doing nothing? Talk about being blinded!
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...
David Lamb
Active Member
The words on which that cartoon is based were addressed by the Saviour to backsliding Christians. It's part of what John was told to write to the church at Laodicia:
“"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. "Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’ — and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked — "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, [that] the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.” (Re 3:14-20 NKJV)
The idea of Jesus patiently waiting outside an unsaved sinner's heart for that sinner to open the door and let Him in is not in the bible. Unsaved sinners are described as being "dead in trespasses and sins." Dead people don't open doors.
That's a point we can agree on. Thanks.
Yet that "Jesus knocking" idea is used regularly in evangelistic efforts.
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VictoryinJesus
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And shall be tormented day and night
Is significant I think. For there to be day and night …there has to be a sun and moon?
Unless it’s a different perspective of being tormented day and night for example 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. [6] So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. [7] For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. [8] But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. [9] For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep (being not tormented by the day and the night) we might live with him. [11] Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.
^ upon considering this perspective of being tormented “day and night” I can think of where they are tormented day and night in
John 3:20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. <tormented to come to the light for their deeds to be made known(to be reproved), but also hiding in darkness which is not liberty but torment.
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear (of the day and the night) has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.
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VictoryinJesus
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Wow, what a thought. I get everyone has their long held doctrines and perspectives. To me this is what the picture you posted shows…Jesus told the unjust steward who justifies himself before men “I say unto you to go make friends with the unrighteous mammon so that when it fails (for the unrighteousness mammon will fail) (and when it fails return to me and I will receive you) they will receive you into eternal habitations. It is not hell that receives them but the body of Christ, that receives them. Just like in Philemon when he went away for a season that he might return, now above a servant, as a dearly beloved brother. (The magnitude of above a servant, now from hereon this is a dearly beloved brother who has become profitable in all things). That IS Christ stands outside and knocks(those brothers whom went away for a season that they may return above a servant (unto unrighteousness) but now as a dearly beloved brother (rejoice for the Son has returned): (obedience unto righteousness) (I call and knock) open the door and I will come in and sup with you. Then you will have fellowship. We say God comes and knocks on the door of our heart, for us to open to Him. He is returning from the Marriage of the Lamb. Bringing in those once captive and blind and lame. He stands without and knocks…is our heart hardened to where we say “go away, go away unto everlasting torment. I do not know you! I know not who you are!?” Knock, knock…open the door for who is the One that knocks at the door??? Christ in them, open the door.
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Ronald Nolette
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Your mistake is that you misread the passage! The subject is not to the towns but people who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. You placed eternal fire with the wrong nouns!
Basic rule of grammar to help you avoid this mistake. When you see a personal pronoun, (they)it refers back to its nearest noun that matches in case and number. In the passage above it is not the towns but the people.
They are free of charge at Biblehub. Here's a link. Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
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I have my own when I was studying it years ago.
You can also go to Tentmaker forum, where the universalists hang out, they have pages you can copy paste there as well.
There was never anyone who was considered a leader there though, not that he made any real appearances, anymore than the owner of Christian forums or this forum. None of the forum owners involve themselves. If anything Fine Linen was the one that was the most active by way of providing the fodder for the members but was never really involved in many of the back and forths which often had little to do with the for ever and ever stuff. They would basically try and fight new members who joined to challenge their stuff (that sort of thing). Now its just a few strays that go out to the other boards (for example at CF) into the unorthodox or controversial section and they just go back and forth with the same ol things they always did.
David Lamb
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