Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope

[St. SteVen]

If anything Fine Linen was the one that was the most active...

Meeting Fine Linen was my point of entry. (sort of) It was one of his topics anyway.
It was mostly a matter of timing because of a family situation I was going through.

My sister-in-law informed my mother-in-law
that she couldn't believe in a God that would put people in hell.
Mom was pretty upset. She was afraid of losing a child to unbelief.
The church had taught her that those who succumb to unbelief will be lost for all eternity.
Mom was devastated. Understandably.

The family had been raised evangelical, as had I. Which left me with nothing to offer but the standard apologetics about hell.
This left me with a hollow feeling inside. My "biblical" defense did nothing to help the situation. Mom was still sobbing.
There was really nothing we could say to my sister-in-law to help the situation. I thought she was at least half right.

The hell doctrine bothered me too. Although the church was backing away from the hellfire and brimstone message...
It was still there. Now softened to "Eternal separation from God." (whatever that means)

I did some research to see if I could bolster my hell belief enough to hang onto it. Again, the empty rhetoric prevailed.
What was hell and why did God create it that way the church described it? Such pointless and sadistic horror.
What kind of a...? (sigh)

Then a forum friend whose biblical knowledge I trusted said that he didn't believe in a forever burning hell. Say what?
I responded by saying, "Tell me more." He directed me to a forum topic where Universalism was being discussed. (Fine Linen)
So, I did some research in that direction. My eyes were opened to something I had never seen before when I read this verse.
I had seen the verse before but never noticed the words, "not only for ours". Say what? That's where it began.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[St. SteVen]

Yes, wronlgy used, in my view.

What's your take on the broad and narrow ways?

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[Jack]

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

EXTREMELY conditional!

 

[Hobie]

Heb 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.

But who is it that He consumes and who is it of whom He simply burns away the wood, hay and stubble?

Da 3:22

Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

That fire did no hurt to the men thrown into the furnace...

Da 3:25

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Rather they walked in the with one like the Son of God. The ropes binding them were like the wood, hay and stubble unable to endure the heat...

1co 3:12	Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1co 3:13	Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1co 3:14	If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

Our God, the consuming fire... is He not also eternal?

Deut. 33:27

The eternal God is thy refuge...

Yes, Preach the truth my brother, the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sodomites are still burning!

2 Corinthians 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

I can’t tell you how many times I heard Paul burned with sexual desire. I’m not saying this is everyone’s experience but mine was men trying to justify their sexual urges —calling it burning to have sexual desire towards a woman —and using Paul as a crutch to say Paul burned with sexual desire also. I’m not saying this to attack anyone but it’s only been my experience growing up. I grew up with a step-father who was well respected in church but at home he was so drunk most times I watched him puke in the kitchen sink. my first introduction to bible verses was him in a drunken state strumming his guitar all night long, slurring old gospel hymns about God’s love. He told my mother it was not fair “he couldn’t hit that” referring to my older sister. How it wasn’t fair she was off limits. He was very blunt and talked about his “burning” with desires. Just letting you know my history and why I doubt God intended the verses my step father used, to be used in that way. Being looked down on as the weaker vessel, told to “know your place” it took years to untangle some of the things I’d grown up hating. It was liberating to notice where Paul spoke of his being the weaker vessel(yet Christ in him.). Yes, I hated God. That is why learning the nature of God is now so vital for me. we do choose how we apply “burning” I’ve heard it applied sexually burning and burning in hell. I’ve never looked up Corinthians 11:29 in the lexicon until this morning. As I expected considering when Paul said 1 Corinthians 8:12-13 But when you sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. [13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world stands, lest I make my brother to offend.

2 Corinthians 11:29 Lexicon: Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern?

biblehub.com

 

[Jack]

"Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope"

True. But the people are still burning and will FOREVER!

 

[Hobie]

"Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope"

True. But the people are still burning and will FOREVER!

No one is burning till the lake of fire, which is the second death.

 

[Jack]

No one is burning till the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Scripture please.

Luke 16:22-24 The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

 

[Brakelite]

It refers to the Sodomites. BILLIONS of humans will suffer the exact same fate as the Devil.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Everlasting, the exact same Greek word, NEVER ending.

Right there in the above post is all the evidence one needs regarding the slander of Satan against God's character.
No-one can argue with the scripture you quoted. It certainly says everlasting punishment. But the slander enters into the equation when you change the nature of punishment. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. And Satan said to Eve, "ye shall not surely die" Genesis 3:4, and you agree with Satan. The wages of sin is not eternal torment, or else in accomplishing redemption, Jesus would still have to be in torment in the "everlasting flames". No, the redemption price was death l, not eternal torment. But we've been down this road before.

Slander against God's character is a serious offence.
In Revelation 13 it says of the sea beast, Antichrist,
“And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. ”
Revelation 13:6 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
In Exodus 34 we are told that God descended upon Mt. Sinai and declared His name to Moses...“5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:5-7 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

God's name, like so many other names in scripture such as those of the patriarchs, describe character. To dishonor or slander God's character is to blaspheme His name. Be very careful and sure concerning what you claim about God and His purposes and intentions towards man.

 

[Jack]

Right there in the above post is all the evidence one needs regarding the slander of Satan against God's character.
No-one can argue with the scripture you quoted. It certainly says everlasting punishment. But the slander enters into the equation when you change the nature of punishment. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. And Satan said to Eve, "ye shall not surely die" Genesis 3:4, and you agree with Satan. The wages of sin is not eternal torment, or else in accomplishing redemption, Jesus would still have to be in torment in the "everlasting flames". No, the redemption price was death l, not eternal torment. But we've been down this road before.

"Death" NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible. Those in Hell will wish they didn't exist.

Slander against God's character is a serious offence.

How ironic!

II Kings 17: 25 They didn't fear God so He sent lions to kill them.

In Revelation 13 it says of the sea beast, Antichrist,
“And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. ”
Revelation 13:6 KJV
Unfeigned Bible
In Exodus 34 we are told that God descended upon Mt. Sinai and declared His name to Moses...“5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:5-7 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

God's name, like so many other names in scripture such as those of the patriarchs, describe character. To dishonor or slander God's character is to blaspheme His name. Be very careful and sure concerning what you claim about God and His purposes and intentions towards man.

Since when did believing and quoting the Bible become slander? Why are YOU slandering me?

 

[Brakelite]

Death" NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

So what happens to the dead if there's no resurrection?

 

[Jack]

So what happens to the dead if there's no resurrection?

Revelation 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

 

[Brakelite]

believing and quoting the Bible

Talking of irony. You quoted the Bible, but don't believe what you quoted. The Bible didn't say everlasting punishment as a verb... continuous ongoing process. It says punishment...a noun... Finished event. Death. No resurrection. No life.

 

[Jack]

Talking of irony. You quoted the Bible, but don't believe what you quoted. The Bible didn't say everlasting punishment as a verb... continuous ongoing process. It says punishment...a noun... Finished event. Death. No resurrection. No life.

See above.

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

 

[Brakelite]

Death NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

But it does mean death. You claim it means life at a hot address.

 

[Jack]

But it does mean death. You claim it means life at a hot address.

Billions on earth are DEAD and still walking around. Adam and Eve died on the day they sinned! But still alive physically.

 

[Brakelite]

See above.

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

Try harmonizing the "never-ending" understanding of "forever" with everything else you know about Who God is and what He is like. Remember, Jesus revealed the Father's character to the world.

 

[Jack]

Try harmonizing the "never-ending" understanding of "forever" with everything else you know about Who God is and what He is like. Remember, Jesus revealed the Father's character to the world.

You're playing word games! Jesus mentioned God burning people alive several times!

 

[Brakelite]

Billions on earth are DEAD and still walking around. Adam and Eve died on the day they sinned! But still alive physically.

It appears to me that you are promoting your opinion of one aspect of character as His main attribute. God's intention to consign billions of people to eternal never ending torture because they failed to acknowledge Jesus as their Saviour. Many of them possibly did that because some Christian told them that God has a tyrannical side and determines to torture people without mercy and without end. I am not slandering you at all. That is precisely what you believe according to your own written testimony. Don't blame me for what you believe, please.

 

[Jack]

It appears to me that you are promoting your opinion of one aspect of character as His main attribute. God's intention to consign billions of people to eternal never ending torture because they failed to acknowledge Jesus as their Saviour. Many of them possibly did that because some Christian told them that God has a tyrannical side and determines to torture people without mercy and without end. I am not slandering you at all. That is precisely what you believe according to your own written testimony. Don't blame me for what you believe, please.

Hell will be filled with BILLIONS of people who don't believe in Hell!