Who Is The Antichrist? A Biblical Prespective.

[Marty fox]

Do you understand that by making this comment you are saying that the 70 week prophecy is not yet fulfilled? How can you recognize that the events in verse 24 could only be fulfilled by Jesus, but then say they are still happening? You are looking at this like those who believe the 70th week is not yet fulfilled even though you do believe it has been fulfilled. It's not talking about making a literal end to sin or anything like that. I'm sorry, but your view on all this makes no sense at all. Please read my post #199 and let me know your thoughts on it.

No that's not what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is that Jeus fulfilled them in a spiritual sense with His physical body and yes the literal actions are still taking place. If it was literally fulfilled in Christ then why are the actions still taking place today

These are attributed to the Jews living in the times of the Maccabees by their trust and faith in God just like we are today.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No that's not what I'm saying at all.

What I'm saying is that Jeus fulfilled them in a spiritual sense with His physical body and yes the literal actions are still taking place. If it was literally fulfilled in Christ then why are the actions still taking place today

You are just not getting it, Marty. If you think the things that are written in Daniel 9:24 were not fulfilled in Christ, then that would mean the 70 weeks have not yet been fulfilled. It clearly says that 70 weeks were given for those things to be fulfilled. So, why don't you think they are fulfilled yet (you're staying they are still taking place) while at the same time claiming that the 70 weeks are fulfilled? That makes no sense. You're contradicting yourself.

These are attributed to the Jews living in the times of the Maccabees by their trust and faith in God just like we are today.

I don't know what you're talking about here.

 

[Marty fox]

No. It is very clear that they were announced and fulfilled by Jesus in His day beginning with His ministry.

But the angle did say for Daniels people not for the world.

Daniel 2
34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

In the verses above it clearly states in the time of those kings and that King Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold. It also states that the rock destroys the head of gold meaning Babylon

How could a kingdom that didn't start until hundreds of years later destroy a kingdom and other kingdoms before it comes?

 

[Marty fox]

You are just not getting it, Marty. If you think the things that are written in Daniel 9:24 were not fulfilled in Christ, then that would mean the 70 weeks have not yet been fulfilled. It clearly says that 70 weeks were given for those things to be fulfilled. So, why don't you think they are fulfilled yet (you're staying they are still taking place) while at the same time claiming that the 70 weeks are fulfilled? That makes no sense. You're contradicting yourself.


I don't know what you're talking about here.

They are fulfilled in Christ, but transgressions still literally happen, thus they were fulfilled spiritually through Christ sacrifice.

This is a fact so why couldn't the 70 weeks also be about the time of the Maccabees?

 

[covenantee]

But the angle did say for Daniels people not for the world.

Yes, the primary focus of the Gospel during the 70th week was Israel.

In the verses above it clearly states in the time of those kings and that King Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold. It also states that the rock destroys the head of gold meaning Babylon

How could a kingdom that didn't start until hundreds of years later destroy a kingdom and other kingdoms before it comes?

In the illustration in Daniel 2:35, the stone, representing the Kingdom of God (Daniel 2:44), instantaneously destroys the entire image containing the representations (gold, silver, brass, iron) of the four temporal world empires (Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, Roman), even though the second through fourth empires do not yet exist.

Daniel 2:44 employs the illustration similarly.

While the illustrations' exact descriptions are not easy to understand, the reality is that the four temporal world empires have been destroyed and no longer exist, but the Kingdom of God remains, will never be destroyed, and will stand forever.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, the primary focus of the Gospel during the 70th week was Israel.

In the illustration in Daniel 2:35, the stone, representing the Kingdom of God (Daniel 2:44), instantaneously destroys the entire image containing the representations (gold, silver, brass, iron) of the four temporal world empires (Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, Roman), even though the second through fourth empires do not yet exist.

Daniel 2:44 employs the illustration similarly.

While the illustrations' exact descriptions are not easy to understand, the reality is that the four temporal world empires have been destroyed and no longer exist, but the Kingdom of God remains, will never be destroyed, and will stand forever.

Right but my question was how could that happen if the kingdom of God hadn’t of come yet?

Thus the kingdom of God had to of come in the time of those kings exactly as the scripture said

 

[covenantee]

Right but my question was how could that happen if the kingdom of God hadn’t of come yet?

Thus the kingdom of God had to of come in the time of those kings exactly as the scripture said

It did. It came during the time of the kings of the Roman empire. Mark 1:14,15

 

[Marty fox]

It did. It came during the time of the kings of the Roman empire. Mark 1:14,15

Then how did it crush the head of gold?

 

[covenantee]

Then how did it crush the head of gold?

The same way that it destroyed the entire image.

 

[CTK]

Then how did it crush the head of gold?

the Stone in 2:34 represents the Messiah at His first coming and He did not come to destroy but to divide. Thus, He struck the feet only (not the toes) and broke into pieces the iron and clay elements only. This was symbolically to separate the Jews (clay) from the iron (Roman Empire) and allow God to choose those of His people (clay) that would accept Him as their Messiah and go out to preach the Good news to the world. They are referred to as Pottery clay while those Jews who rejected Him would be referred to as Ceramic clay in verses 2:41-44.

Verse 2:34 is His first coming to establish His eartly kingdom, while 2:35 represents His return. Please understand the first 3 kingdoms were destroyed by the succeeded kingdom and of course, this all took place before the arrival of the Messiah - meaning 2:34 is not an end time event - it represents the first coming of the Messiah after these kingdoms were conquered by the following kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They are fulfilled in Christ, but transgressions still literally happen, thus they were fulfilled spiritually through Christ sacrifice.

This is a fact so why couldn't the 70 weeks also be about the time of the Maccabees?

Did you not say before that the 70 week prophecy is not about Christ at all? And now you are acknowledging that it is? You need to rethink Daniel 9:24-27 entirely because you're continually contradicting yourself. You also need to stop believing the nonsense that the 7 weeks are parallel to some of the 62 weeks. No, they are not. The text does not indicate that at all. By looking at it that way, you end up not having a full 70 weeks. But, the 70 weeks are divided into 7 weeks, followed by 62 weeks (69 weeks total) followed by the 70th week. Your view turns the 70 weeks into something less than 70 weeks. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Marty fox]

the Stone in 2:34 represents the Messiah at His first coming and He did not come to destroy but to divide. Thus, He struck the feet only (not the toes) and broke into pieces the iron and clay elements only. This was symbolically to separate the Jews (clay) from the iron (Roman Empire) and allow God to choose those of His people (clay) that would accept Him as their Messiah and go out to preach the Good news to the world. They are referred to as Pottery clay while those Jews who rejected Him would be referred to as Ceramic clay in verses 2:41-44.

Verse 2:34 is His first coming to establish His eartly kingdom, while 2:35 represents His return. Please understand the first 3 kingdoms were destroyed by the succeeded kingdom and of course, this all took place before the arrival of the Messiah - meaning 2:34 is not an end time event - it represents the first coming of the Messiah after these kingdoms were conquered by the following kingdom.

But that’s not what Daniel wrote it includes the gold silver and bronze too.

Daniel 2
45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

Remember God used Darius to destroy Babylon when the king of Babylon insulted God

 

[Marty fox]

Did you not say before that the 70 week prophecy is not about Christ at all? And now you are acknowledging that it is? You need to rethink Daniel 9:24-27 entirely because you're continually contradicting yourself. You also need to stop believing the nonsense that the 7 weeks are parallel to some of the 62 weeks. No, they are not. The text does not indicate that at all. By looking at it that way, you end up not having a full 70 weeks. But, the 70 weeks are divided into 7 weeks, followed by 62 weeks (69 weeks total) followed by the 70th week. Your view turns the 70 weeks into something less than 70 weeks. It makes no sense at all.

It’s 70 weeks of prophey nothing says that they can’t run parallel

Of course only Jesus can fulfill verse 24 what i was saying is that the events of the 70 weeks were in the times of the Maccabees and the key date to tie them all together was the signing of the decree from king Cyrus

 

[CTK]

But that’s not what Daniel wrote it includes the gold silver and bronze too.

Daniel 2
45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

Remember God used Darius to destroy Babylon when the king of Babylon insulted God

verse 2:45 is the end time destruction --- this is when all of the individual components / elements - including the clay (representing those that rejected Jesus... would be destroyed.

But 2:34 represents His first coming only. He came to separate the pottery clay from the ceramic clay out from the pagan Roman empire. He came to divide His people from the Romans unlike what His people expected Him to do which was to destroy the Romans through a military campaign. Once again, the Medes-Persians conquered Babylon, and they were conquered by Greece who were succeeded by the 4th kingdom of Rome - when the Messiah would arrive. Thus, the first 3 kingdoms were conquered before Christ arrived in the first century. They did not continue until the end of time to be destroyed completely. Symbolically, all of the metal man image, including the clay will be destroyed at the end. Understanding that 2:34 is His first coming with the mission to establish His earthly kingdom by His sacrifice and sending those of His people (pottery clay) out into the world to preach the Good news took place in the first century, is absolutely critical to interpreting verses 2:41-45 and everything in Chapter 7 to 12.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It’s 70 weeks of prophey nothing says that they can’t run parallel

How many of the weeks do you think run parallel? There are 7 weeks, 62 weeks and one other week mentioned in Daniel 9:25-27. That adds up to 70 weeks. How does the prophecy add up to 70 weeks in your view?

Of course only Jesus can fulfill verse 24 what i was saying is that the events of the 70 weeks were in the times of the Maccabees and the key date to tie them all together was the signing of the decree from king Cyrus

You're not making any sense. How can you acknowledge that only Jesus could fulfill verse 24, which is related directly to the 70 weeks, and at the same time claim that the 70 weeks prophecy was not about Jesus? If verse 24 was fulfilled by Jesus, as you acknowledge, then the timing of the prophecy has to include the time when Jesus was alive, but you don't even acknowledge that and you say it wasn't about Him at all.

 

[Marty fox]

How many of the weeks do you think run parallel? There are 7 weeks, 62 weeks and one other week mentioned in Daniel 9:25-27. That adds up to 70 weeks. How does the prophecy add up to 70 weeks in your view?


You're not making any sense. How can you acknowledge that only Jesus could fulfill verse 24, which is related directly to the 70 weeks, and at the same time claim that the 70 weeks prophecy was not about Jesus? If verse 24 was fulfilled by Jesus, as you acknowledge, then the timing of the prophecy has to include the time when Jesus was alive, but you don't even acknowledge that and you say it wasn't about Him at all.

There are 3 sets of weeks and as I stated I believe that the set of 7 weeks runs parrell to some of the set of 62 weeks. Different prophecies can run parrell to other prophecies.

Once again yes only Jesus can fulfill verse 24 but that doesn't mean that the 70 weeks are about the first advent altogether.

The OT saints and prophets are saved in the same way as we are they are saved by grace through their faith in a future savior but that doesn't mean that the act that Jesus did happened in their life time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are 3 sets of weeks and as I stated I believe that the set of 7 weeks runs parrell to some of the set of 62 weeks. Different prophecies can run parrell to other prophecies.

So, how do you end up with 70 weeks then? Please explain that. For me, it's easy. You take 7 + 62 + 1. That's 70. I have no idea how you get to 70 weeks in your view if the 7 weeks runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks.

Once again yes only Jesus can fulfill verse 24 but that doesn't mean that the 70 weeks are about the first advent altogether.

Did you not say at one point that it's not about the first advent at all? I seem to recall you saying that, but I guess not?

The OT saints and prophets are saved in the same way as we are they are saved by grace through their faith in a future savior but that doesn't mean that the act that Jesus did happened in their life time.

Yes, of course, but I'm not sure what your point is here as it relates to the prophecy. Maybe we should just agree to disagree at this point because I can't make any sense of how you interpret the prophecy and there's probably nothing you can do about that.

 

[CTK]

There are 3 sets of weeks and as I stated I believe that the set of 7 weeks runs parrell to some of the set of 62 weeks. Different prophecies can run parrell to other prophecies.

Once again yes only Jesus can fulfill verse 24 but that doesn't mean that the 70 weeks are about the first advent altogether.

The OT saints and prophets are saved in the same way as we are they are saved by grace through their faith in a future savior but that doesn't mean that the act that Jesus did happened in their life time.

For what it is worth....

Daniel 9:24

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

In Daniel 9:24–27, Gabriel delivers a prophecy that holds profound significance in God's plan of redemption. While he begins by addressing the restoration of Jerusalem and the physical elements necessary for its completion by the end of the 69th week, the true focus of this prophecy is not on the rebuilding of a city—it is on the final week, the last seven years, where the mareh vision will be fulfilled through the Messiah.

This final week carries the weight of six specific requirements that the Messiah alone can accomplish. These requirements are not arbitrary; they are the final steps in God’s plan to restore humanity spiritually, bringing His people back into a state of righteousness, akin to the original harmony found in the Garden of Eden. This restoration, as foretold, would take place through the Jews and in His holy city, Jerusalem. However, it would come at an immense cost.

The sacrifice of the Jewish people, in their unbelief, made it possible for the Messiah—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—to be given to the world as the ultimate atonement for sin. This was not an accident or a matter of human free will overriding divine authority; it was preordained from the very beginning. The Jews had no choice in this matter, just as there is no way any of us could ever deserve the sacrifice of Christ. And just as we cannot earn His grace, we also cannot repay the sacrifice of the Jewish people, who played a pivotal role in God’s redemptive plan.

Verse 24 serves as a foundational statement, revealing three critical aspects:

The duration of the prophecy is seventy weeks of years—a total of 490 literal years.​

​

The prophecy is exclusively directed at Daniel’s people (the Jews) and their city (Jerusalem).​

​

Within this final week, six divine requirements will be fulfilled by the Messiah, bringing the ultimate restoration.​

These four verses (Daniel 9:24–27) act as a divine blueprint, laying out the boundaries and time structure for this prophecy. Just as the metal-man image in Daniel 2 provided a defined physical structure for understanding the rise and fall of kingdoms, Chapter 9 presents a time structure that is just as precise and unalterable. Within each of these measured time sections, Daniel reveals the actors, events, and divine missions that will be completed—each one essential, each one fulfilled exactly as foretold.

This prophecy is the key to understanding not just history, but the very heart of God's plan for salvation. It confirms that the Messiah’s coming was not random—it was foretold to the exact year. It affirms that His mission would not be political or military but spiritual. And most importantly, it reveals that God’s plan was always about restoration—not just of a city, but of the entire human race.

24a-70 weeks are determined
24b-for your people and your holy city

Gabriel's introduction to this prophecy in Daniel 9:24 is essential because it establishes a clear, structured timeframe that follows the same pattern seen in earlier prophetic chapters. Just as Daniel 2, 7, and 8 presented visions in two parts—a dream sequence and an interpretation sequence—Chapter 9 should be understood in a similar way. The Lord provides not just symbolic imagery but an exact time structure, allowing for precise understanding of the events that will unfold.

Gabriel begins by stating that seventy weeks (or 490 years) have been determined for Daniel’s people and his holy city, Jerusalem. This prophecy is not vague, nor is it open-ended—it has firm, divinely ordained boundaries that define both its time and audience.

The prophecy is specifically directed toward the Jews and Jerusalem, leaving no room for speculation about its application to any other group or era beyond the arrival of the Messiah.

Unlike Daniel 2, which reveals the rise and fall of four physical kingdoms, Daniel 9 reveals three specific time divisions within the seventy weeks:

7 weeks (49 years) – A period marking the rebuilding of Jerusalem.​

​

62 weeks (434 years) – The time leading up to the arrival of the Messiah.​

​

1 week (7 years) – The final, most critical period, when the Messiah fulfills His mission.​

This structured division is not arbitrary; it allows for orderly comprehension and prevents misinterpretation. It also serves as a direct messianic roadmap for the Jews, ensuring that they have the necessary information to recognize the Messiah before His arrival.

As the Jews returned to Jerusalem from Babylon, the visions of Daniel (the chazon and the mareh) and the prophecy of Chapter 9 would no longer be “sealed” or “shut up.” These prophecies were meant for them—to be studied, interpreted, and understood in conjunction with the other messianic prophecies of the Tanakh. The timeline given was specific and verifiable, allowing them to anticipate the arrival of the Messiah with certainty.

Unlike modern interpretations that attempt to extend or manipulate the timeline, this prophecy was given with strict limitations:

It cannot be pushed forward 2,000 years into the future.​

​

It is not about a singular end-time antichrist figure.​

​

It is meant for “Daniel’s people and city”—before the Messiah’s arrival.​

By setting these firm external boundaries, God ensures clarity, preventing confusion or misinterpretation. This prophecy is not about speculation—it is about confirmation. When read correctly, it leaves no room for doubt: the Messiah would come within this timeframe, and His mission would be completed in the final week.

The Jews were given all the information they needed to recognize their Redeemer. The question was never whether the Messiah would come—but whether they would see and recognize Him when He arrived.

The restoration of every article of the Sanctuary, the Temple, and the city of Jerusalem was an essential element in fulfilling God’s plan within the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Daniel 9 clearly establishes a divine sequence, in which everything must be restored before the arrival of the Messiah and before the destructive events that would follow. When the Jews returned from Babylon, their mission was to rebuild and restore:

The Temple itself, along with the city and its walls.​

​

The sacrificial system and ceremonial services.​

​

The seven holy festivals and daily worship practices.​

However, God orchestrated the restoration process in a precise reverse order, ensuring that each element taken away during the Babylonian destruction would be reestablished before the Messiah arrived. Daniel’s prophecy divides the seventy weeks (490 years) into three distinct sections:

Seven weeks (49 years) – The time allocated for the physical rebuilding of Jerusalem, the Temple, and its holy articles.​

​

Sixty-two weeks (434 years) – A long period without an assigned mission, ensuring a seamless transition into the final week.​

​

One week (7 years) – The final period when the Messiah fulfills His mission.​

Notably, there is no restorative mission assigned to the 62-week (434-year) section. This reinforces the idea that these time periods must be consecutive, preventing any attempt to separate or extend them into the distant future. Before the Messiah begins His ministry, all physical restorations must be completed. This is why the restorative verses (9:24-25) come before the destructive verses (9:26-27). The sequence of the destructive verses matters:

Verse 9:25 confirms that the Messiah will arrive after the first two sections (69 weeks/483 years) have passed.​

​

Verse 9:26 confirms that the Messiah will be cut off (crucified) within the final week.​

This order is intentional. The Messiah’s arrival and mission were not random; they were preordained within a precise timeframe.

 

[Marty fox]

So, how do you end up with 70 weeks then? Please explain that. For me, it's easy. You take 7 + 62 + 1. That's 70. I have no idea how you get to 70 weeks in your view if the 7 weeks runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks.


Did you not say at one point that it's not about the first advent at all? I seem to recall you saying that, but I guess not?


Yes, of course, but I'm not sure what your point is here as it relates to the prophecy. Maybe we should just agree to disagree at this point because I can't make any sense of how you interpret the prophecy and there's probably nothing you can do about that.

Because its 70 weeks 62+7+1, but its doesn't say that the weeks have to be consecutive some can run at the same time.

3 sets of weeks in total just like 10 mornings & 10 evenings are in 10 days.

Yes I believe that the events of the of the weeks like the fighting the AOD and the rebuilding of the city were before the first advent.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because its 70 weeks 62+7+1, but its doesn't say that the weeks have to be consecutive some can run at the same time.

You're not understanding my point here. If the 7 weeks run parallel to some of the 62 weeks then that is not going to add up to 69 weeks.

Let me simplify this a bit to show what I'm talking about. Let's say there were 10 weeks in the prophecy instead of 70 and they were divided up into 3, 6 and 1 sets of weeks. Let's say 2 of the 3 weeks set run parallel to 2 of the 6 weeks. So, that means we have 6 weeks and we have 2 of the set of 3 weeks occurring during that time. So, we're left with 1 other week of the 3 weeks that occurs separately from the 6 weeks, right? So, that makes it 6 weeks plus that other week and that adds up to 7 weeks total. Add the other 1 week comes and that comes out to only 8 weeks of the 10 weeks of the prophecy. Can you see my point now? If not, this is hopeless.

Beyond all that, the main problem here is that it is completely baseless to have the 7 weeks being parallel to some of the 62 weeks. There is no indication of such a thing in the prophecy itself.