Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[WPM]

Really, so you were resurrected or somebody was? There was no one "in Christ" at the time until Pentecost. Our part is coming soon.
Of course this Amillennail argument is futile, there is wall between us that will remain until He actually comes and you find yourself hovering in the clouds and meeting him and the rest of us. That will be an enlightening day.

Where exactly does it say no one was "in Christ" until Pentecost? Please give me clear Scripture.

 

[dad]

Where is the rapture and the second coming of Jesus to earth in Revelation 20? Is the rapture not the coming of Christ?

Where is it in a kellog's cereal box? Why must the resurrection of believers be in every chapter? Especially when we are talking AFTER the millennium!?

 

[WPM]

Really, so you were resurrected or somebody was? There was no one "in Christ" at the time until Pentecost. Our part is coming soon.
Of course this Amillennail argument is futile, there is wall between us that will remain until He actually comes and you find yourself hovering in the clouds and meeting him and the rest of us. That will be an enlightening day.

The new birth involves spiritual resurrection from a spiritual grave.

 

[WPM]

Where is it in a kellog's cereal box? Why must the resurrection of believers be in every chapter? Especially when we are talking AFTER the millennium!?

Wer is your rapture in Revelation? Where is your 3rd coming?

 

[WPM]

The new birth involves spiritual resurrection from a spiritual grave.

Is the rapture not the coming of Christ?

 

[dad]

Wer is your rapture in Revelation? Where is your 3rd coming?

The return of Jesus with the saints is apparently what you call the third coming. That is pretty clear where that is. Need I do your homework for you on that? As for the meeting in the air before that time, it is not the book of Revelation we would look to for overt reference to that. However, once we know that the rapture already happened, reading Rev in that light makes perfect sense. For example it makes sense why the church is suddenly not talked about any more. There is nothing in Revelation that says the Rapture will not be before the tribulation!

 

[rwb]

Im not trying to force a physical resurection of Israel before Gog comes against Israel in revelation 20:4-9.

That's fine! What or rather when is the physical resurrection you are trying to force into the text of Rev 20?

 

[tailgator]

The overcoming is current and ongoing. That is who the believer is. This has absolutely nothing to do with a future physical resurrection.

So you believe the saints who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark are being beheaded now by the beast.

Where exactly are you saying these beheading are taking place?

 

[rwb]

This is the resurrection of Israel revelation 20 is talking about.The resurection you claim.is not physical.

If you're talking about the "first resurrection" of Rev 20, when have I claimed it is not physical? I have consistently argued through the Scriptures, why the "first resurrection" is indeed the physical resurrection of Christ ALONE. Because it is by having part in His resurrected immortal life before we physically die the saints overcome the second death! If Christ had not physically resurrected from the dead to immortality, none could have eternal/immortal life through Him. Since He has bodily resurrected immortal when we partake of His resurrection life before we die, we have overcome the second death, and when we are bodily resurrected in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth whereby man must be saved, shall be no longer we too shall be clothed with immortal & incorruptible bodies of flesh resurrected from the dead, IF we are not still physically alive when Christ comes again. If we are still alive at His coming, we won't be resurrected because we are not dead, but we too, like the dead in Christ shall be changed to immortal & incorruptible body of flesh to live with Christ FOREVER on the new earth.

 

[tailgator]

That's fine! What or rather when is the physical resurrection you are trying to force into the text of Rev 20?

The resurection is physical.
It is when the dead are raised from their graves.

Israels resurection takes place before Gog comes against Israel in revelation 20.
Everyone who keeps the Lord's Sabbath is resurected before the 1000 year Sabbath day.

 

[rwb]

The resurection is physical.
It is when the dead are raised from their graves.

The bodily resurrection shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer! NO human, with the exception of Jesus has been or shall be physically resurrected before this! The dead shall be raised from the graves on the last day of this current age, and not one day sooner! It appears you really aren't very familiar with the Scriptures!

 

[WPM]

The return of Jesus with the saints is apparently what you call the third coming. That is pretty clear where that is. Need I do your homework for you on that? As for the meeting in the air before that time, it is not the book of Revelation we would look to for overt reference to that. However, once we know that the rapture already happened, reading Rev in that light makes perfect sense. For example it makes sense why the church is suddenly not talked about any more. There is nothing in Revelation that says the Rapture will not be before the tribulation!

Exactly. It is a fictional belief. It is not there. It does not exist.

I will give you 15 solid reason why this reasoning is ridiculous and should be swiftly rejected. I will then explain these points.

(1) The word “Church,” as in the elect redeemed (born again) Church, is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation. There are only references to the local churches (which includes saved and unsaved) in Asia Minor in the last book in the Bible.
(2) The whole book of Revelation was written to local churches in Asia Minor 2,000 years ago for the expressed purpose of encouraging them in their hour of trial.
(3) Words, terms, titles and descriptions that are repeatedly used elsewhere in the New Testament to describe the Church of Jesus Christ are used regularly in Revelation 4 to 19 to describe the true Church of Jesus Christ.
(4) The apostate “churches” and their phony believers miss the rapture and enter this supposed 7 year tribulation, according to Pretrib – but the non-mention of the apostate “churches” must prove they are not on earth either. Where have they gone to?
(5) The word “Church” is not found in Revelation 4 in the Pretrib rapture
(6) The word “Church” is not found in the heavenly passages between Revelation 4 and 19. Using Pretrib logic, then they must not be in heaven either.
(7) The word “Church” is not found in Revelation 19 for the Pretrib 3rd Coming. So, they cannot be part of that supposed event.
(8) The word “Church” not found in Revelation 20 in the millennium. They cannot therefore be part of that period of time.
(9) The word ‘“Church” not found in Revelation 21 in the eternal state. They cannot therefore be part of the eternal state.
(10) The word ‘“Church” not found in many places throughout the New Testament.
(11) The word ‘“Church” is not found in all the popular Pretrib proof texts.
(12) What about the absence of the word “Jew” and “Hebrew” from Revelation 4-19, and the absence of the word “Israel” after Revelation 7.
(13) What about the non-mention of the popular Pretrib term ‘tribulation saints’ in Revelation 4-19
(14) Whilst “the Church” has been caught up at the coming of Christ, even Pretrib teaches that local churches continue to exist after the rapture! Why are these churches not mentioned?
(15) Does the strange silence of the word “Christian” in Revelation 1-3 not prove Christians are not present or in view?

 

[tailgator]

If you're talking about the "first resurrection" of Rev 20, when have I claimed it is not physical? I have consistently argued through the Scriptures, why the "first resurrection" is indeed the physical resurrection of Christ ALONE. Because it is by having part in His resurrected immortal life before we physically die the saints overcome the second death! If Christ had not physically resurrected from the dead to immortality, none could have eternal/immortal life through Him. Since He has bodily resurrected immortal when we partake of His resurrection life before we die, we have overcome the second death, and when we are bodily resurrected in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth whereby man must be saved, shall be no longer we too shall be clothed with immortal & incorruptible bodies of flesh resurrected from the dead, IF we are not still physically alive when Christ comes again. If we are still alive at His coming, we won't be resurrected because we are not dead, but we too, like the dead in Christ shall be changed to immortal & incorruptible body of flesh to live with Christ FOREVER on the new earth.

Revelation 20 is talking about the saints who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.
They are the subject of these three verses.


Do you remember in grade school when your first grade teacher wanted you to show who was the subject being spoken of?



"them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, "


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



These martyrs of Christ are the only ones being resurected in these three verses. The rest of the dead are not resurected at that time.

 

[tailgator]

The bodily resurrection shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer! NO human, with the exception of Jesus has been or shall be physically resurrected before this! The dead shall be raised from the graves on the last day of this current age, and not one day sooner! It appears you really aren't very familiar with the Scriptures!

These are resurected at the last trump.Same time the beast who killed them is being destroyed.


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



There are no trumps being blown after this.

 

[rwb]

Revelation 20 is talking about the saints who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.
They are the subject of these three verses.

The beheaded saints John saw are NOT dead, they are still souls ALIVE after physical death. As souls without human form they need not be physically resurrected to life again, because the life they received through Christ's resurrection life is ETERNAL. Though their body dies, that's what happens when physical flesh is beheaded, they are souls alive because before they were martyred, they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" or during their lifetimes.

You keep mentioning the DEAD as though they too shall be resurrected to life again, but the DEAD are NOT resurrected to life again. They are simply made to live again to stand before the GWTJ to be judged then cast into the eternal flames.

Where does John write that the rest of the dead shall be resurrected to life again? The final words of verse 5 do not speak of the dead having part in the first resurrection. John would not write of the dead standing before God to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life if the dead shall be resurrected to life AGAIN. Why? Because John tells us those having part in the first resurrection before they die are already blessed and holy, have already overcome the second death, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years or during their lifetimes. Only the DEAD are judged, not those who have already partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. They of the first resurrection are NOT among the DEAD to be judged because they have eternal life the moment they are born again. First in the flesh before they died, afterward a spiritual body of Christ in heaven without human form.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[tailgator]

The beheaded saints John saw are NOT dead, they are still souls ALIVE after physical death. As souls without human form they need not be physically resurrected to life again, because the life they received through Christ's resurrection life is ETERNAL. Though their body dies, that's what happens when physical flesh is beheaded, they are souls alive because before they were martyred, they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" or during their lifetimes.

You keep mentioning the DEAD as though they too shall be resurrected to life again, but the DEAD are NOT resurrected to life again. They are simply made to live again to stand before the GWTJ to be judged then cast into the eternal flames.

Where does John write that the rest of the dead shall be resurrected to life again? The final words of verse 5 do not speak of the dead having part in the first resurrection. John would not write of the dead standing before God to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life if the dead shall be resurrected to life AGAIN. Why? Because John tells us those having part in the first resurrection before they die are already blessed and holy, have already overcome the second death, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years or during their lifetimes. Only the DEAD are judged, not those who have already partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. They of the first resurrection are NOT among the DEAD to be judged because they have eternal life the moment they are born again. First in the flesh before they died, afterward a spiritual body of Christ in heaven without human form.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This is not about the deaths of them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.
This is talking about their resurrection .
They are killed,then they are resurected.

This resurection does not include anyone else.
They are the only subjects being spoken of that are in the first resurection.

The rest of the dead lived not again till after 1000 years


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[tailgator]

The beheaded saints John saw are NOT dead, they are still souls ALIVE after physical death. As souls without human form they need not be physically resurrected to life again, because the life they received through Christ's resurrection life is ETERNAL. Though their body dies, that's what happens when physical flesh is beheaded, they are souls alive because before they were martyred, they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" or during their lifetimes.

You keep mentioning the DEAD as though they too shall be resurrected to life again, but the DEAD are NOT resurrected to life again. They are simply made to live again to stand before the GWTJ to be judged then cast into the eternal flames.

Where does John write that the rest of the dead shall be resurrected to life again? The final words of verse 5 do not speak of the dead having part in the first resurrection. John would not write of the dead standing before God to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life if the dead shall be resurrected to life AGAIN. Why? Because John tells us those having part in the first resurrection before they die are already blessed and holy, have already overcome the second death, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years or during their lifetimes. Only the DEAD are judged, not those who have already partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. They of the first resurrection are NOT among the DEAD to be judged because they have eternal life the moment they are born again. First in the flesh before they died, afterward a spiritual body of Christ in heaven without human form.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And just so you know,these saints who are killed for their testimony of Jesus are persecuted by the beast for ,42 months before Christ comes.
Then Christ comes,the beast and false prophet are destroyed,and these saints are resurected from the dead.


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Revelation 14:3
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.


They are redeemed from the earth.

 

[rwb]

This is not about the deaths of them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.
This is talking about their resurrection .
They are killed,then they are resurected.

No! They are killed because they had part in the first resurrection, and through the Spirit of Christ in them they remained faithful unto death. So, death could not keep them from being alive, because after death they are still souls ALIVE John sees (is aware) in heaven without physical form. A physical body cannot have life after beheading. Yet, these martyrs are ALIVE SPIRITUALLY in heaven after physical death, because in life before they died they lived and reigned with Christ during this TIME symbolized a thousand years. Neither they nor any other human being shall be bodily resurrected immortal before the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time (symbolically A, not ONE thousand years) given this earth whereby man MUST be saved shall be no longer.

The rest of the dead lived not again till after 1000 years

Yes, the rest of the DEAD, or those not numbered among the martyred saints in heaven, will be resurrected to life to stand before the GWTJ and be cast into the eternal flames. Again, that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time on this earth shall be no longer! The DEAD shall never be called blessed and holy, only those of the first resurrection are.

 

[tailgator]

No! They are killed because they had part in the first resurrection, and through the Spirit of Christ in them they remained faithful unto death. So, death could not keep them from being alive, because after death they are still souls ALIVE John sees (is aware) in heaven without physical form. A physical body cannot have life after beheading. Yet, these martyrs are ALIVE SPIRITUALLY in heaven after physical death, because in life before they died they lived and reigned with Christ during this TIME symbolized a thousand years. Neither they nor any other human being shall be bodily resurrected immortal before the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time (symbolically A, not ONE thousand years) given this earth whereby man MUST be saved shall be no longer.


Yes, the rest of the DEAD, or those not numbered among the martyred saints in heaven, will be resurrected to life to stand before the GWTJ and be cast into the eternal flames. Again, that shall be in the hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time on this earth shall be no longer! The DEAD shall never be called blessed and holy, only those of the first resurrection are.

False.

They are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.


"them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God'


Revelation 20


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

And just so you know,these saints who are killed for their testimony of Jesus are persecuted by the beast for ,42 months before Christ comes.
Then Christ comes,the beast and false prophet are destroyed,and these saints are resurected from the dead.

Are they?

One more time the physically dead saints, as well as the rest of the dead shall NOT be resurrected to immortal life for the saints, and resurrected to have part in the second death for the rest of the DEAD, before the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time given this earth (a thousand symbolic years) shall be no longer. There will no longer be anymore delay this age of time for man to be saved shall be ended. Then Satan will have his little season that will end with fire of God coming down from heaven to destroy all who follow after Satan (Gog & Magog). Then comes the GWTJ where the DEAD shall be judged according to their works recorded in the books and the book of life, and the saints shall be there clothed in immortal & incorruptible body to live with Christ as complete human being again on the new earth, that shall come down AFTER this first earth has passed away.