Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[WPM]

False
It means remain faithful untill death.
Can you not understand revelation 2:10-11,or are you just ignoring it?


Revelation 2
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Oh. So the overcoming begins at the resurrection of the righteous?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is heretical to deny the physical resurrection of Christ. He was first to conquer the grave.

I agree 100%. But again, Rev. 20:6 is speaking about Christians. You are misinterpreting a scripture to fit your view.

 

[WPM]

I agree 100%. But again, Rev. 20:6 is speaking about Christians. You are misinterpreting a scripture to fit your view.

He is talking about our "part" in His first resurrection. There can only be one first resurrection.

 

[rwb]

The resurected saints in revelation 20:4-9 are resurected from.the dead after they were beheaded for their witness of Jesus.

I agree! Where does it say they are physically resurrected to life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years? John writes it is during this time he writes "a thousand years" that "they LIVED and REIGNED" with Christ, and during that time they were martyred for their faithfulness.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Why do you have such a hard time understanding revelation 20:4?

It is you who lacks understanding of this verse. You're trying so hard to force a physical resurrection of saints for ONE thousand years, but the verse very clearly says "they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years" already until they were martyred for their faith. You want them resurrected to physical mortal life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years. You ignore the fact that saints shall be physically resurrected to live FOREVER with Christ on the new earth.

If you claim that you are one of these resurected saints ,then who was it that beheaded you ?

John shows us that it is not only the martyred for their faithfulness who have part in the first resurrection. Why do you ignore those called blessed and holy, overcome the second death and have part in the first resurrection who SHALL also reign with Christ during this time John writes a thousand years?

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

They are not numbered with those martyred for faithfulness to Christ, but they too are nonetheless faithful unto death or they would not be called blessed and holy, overcome the second death before they physically die, be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with Him during this TIME John writes "a thousand years."

In this chapter of the Revelation John writes of two types of people having life during this age of time, symbolized a/the thousand years. They are the DEAD, and then there are those who already have eternal life through Christ who have both lived and reigned with Christ in time or shall reign with Christ in time before they physically die. The fate of the DEAD - after this time, symbolized a thousand years expires they shall be called to stand before God at the GWTJ to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life and be cast into the eternal flames. Those who are already eternally alive through Christ shall be bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible to live with Christ FOREVER on the new earth.

 

[tailgator]

Oh. So the overcoming begins at the resurrection of the righteous?

Remaining faithful untill death .

Revelation 2
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This resurrection has to be spiritual “in Christ.” Notably, this promise in Revelation 20:6 is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation. Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current ongoing everlasting victory over eternal punishment (as repeatedly taught in Scripture)


Amen!,to the above..

@WPM said.

Those who have eyes to see and have ears to hear will get it.


RJ says, yes, when we are Born Again ,we receive those spiritual eyes and ears, they need to be developed,....forever developing our eyes and ears, once Born Again,just my thoughts.

[16] But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. [17] For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

While all of that is true, it doesn't discount or defeat that idea that Jesus will rule with his disciples on the earth for a thousand years.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The testimony of its veracity is seen in the fact that you (or no Premil) have not been able to rebut any of it.

I did defeat your argument by pointing out that it suffered from the Strawman fallacy. The fact that you have no answer clearly indicates that you agree with me.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Really? In what way?

You know Amillennialism better than I do. I'm surprised you don't know the answer.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where did i misrepresent the Premillennial position?

Your argument assumes that Premillennialism accepts your interpretation of Revelation 20, which it does not.

 

[tailgator]

I agree! Where does it say they are physically resurrected to life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years? John writes it is during this time he writes "a thousand years" that "they LIVED and REIGNED" with Christ, and during that time they were martyred for their faithfulness.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


It is you who lacks understanding of this verse. You're trying so hard to force a physical resurrection of saints for ONE thousand years, but the verse very clearly says "they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years" already until they were martyred for their faith. You want them resurrected to physical mortal life again to live and reign with Christ for one thousand years. You ignore the fact that saints shall be physically resurrected to live FOREVER with Christ on the new earth.


John shows us that it is not only the martyred for their faithfulness who have part in the first resurrection. Why do you ignore those called blessed and holy, overcome the second death and have part in the first resurrection who SHALL also reign with Christ during this time John writes a thousand years?

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

They are not numbered with those martyred for faithfulness to Christ, but they too are nonetheless faithful unto death or they would not be called blessed and holy, overcome the second death before they physically die, be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with Him during this TIME John writes "a thousand years."

In this chapter of the Revelation John writes of two types of people having life during this age of time, symbolized a/the thousand years. They are the DEAD, and then there are those who already have eternal life through Christ who have both lived and reigned with Christ in time or shall reign with Christ in time before they physically die. The fate of the DEAD - after this time, symbolized a thousand years expires they shall be called to stand before God at the GWTJ to give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life and be cast into the eternal flames. Those who are already eternally alive through Christ shall be bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible to live with Christ FOREVER on the new earth.

Im not trying to force a physical resurection of Israel before Gog comes against Israel in revelation 20:4-9.

The resurection of Israel before Gog invades Israel in revelation 20 is also recorded in Ezekiel 37-39.


This is the resurrection of Israel revelation 20 is talking about.The resurection you claim.is not physical.


Ezekiel 37

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


And just do you know.Messiah will also be there in the land of Israel when Gog comes against them in revelation 20 as Ezekiel 38.



Ezekiel 37
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

 

[WPM]

Your argument assumes that Premillennialism accepts your interpretation of Revelation 20, which it does not.

Obviously you did not read it. I actually presented what it is saying. That forbids your theory.

 

[WPM]

I did defeat your argument by pointing out that it suffered from the Strawman fallacy. The fact that you have no answer clearly indicates that you agree with me.

Instead of ducking around the Op, how about addressing it? You will not because you cannot.

 

[WPM]

Remaining faithful untill death .

Revelation 2
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

You are ducking around the obvious: the overcoming occurs in life and therefore instigates victory over the second death in the here-and-now. It does not start at the resurrection of the just.

 

[tailgator]

You are ducking around the obvious: the overcoming occurs in life and therefore instigates victory over the second death in the here-and-now. It does not start at the resurrection of the just.

Remaining faithful untill death is not ducking when someone has overcome.It is stating when someone has overcome. "Untill death,"


" be thou faithful unto death,"

Revelation 2
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.




Do you honestly believe you would die a second death after being given a crown of life,?
Think about it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Obviously you did not read it. I actually presented what it is saying. That forbids your theory.

I read it, and my response was not a theory. Rather, I chose to focus on your argument's premises and assumptions. Your argument fails because it needs the Strawman fallacy. Care to clarify your argument without assuming Premillennialism agrees with your interpretation of Revelation 20?

 

[WPM]

Remaining faithful untill death is not ducking when someone has overcome.It is stating when someone has overcome. "Untill death,"


" be thou faithful unto death,"

Revelation 2
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.




Do you honestly believe you would die a second death after being given a crown of life,?
Think about it.

The overcoming is current and ongoing. That is who the believer is. This has absolutely nothing to do with a future physical resurrection.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Instead of ducking around the Op, how about addressing it? You will not because you cannot.

I did address it. Look, is it fair or reasonable for me or any other reader to interact with your claim to have indisputable proof that the Premillennial doctrine is contrary to scripture if you make claims that are contrary to the Premillennial doctrine? Why not get your facts straight first?

 

[dad]

Revelation 20:6 tells us: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

What is "the second death" and what is the biblical means by which we escape it? At what point does the second death no longer have power over someone? When does that kick in?

The time frame is crystal clear in Rev 20. That event (first resurrection) is after the 1000 years are over.

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

A lot happens before that. The Rapture, the second coming of Jesus to earth, and etc.

That verse is not even related to the Rapture much less some 'proof' that it did not happen before the wrath of God.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

He is talking about our "part" in His first resurrection.

Really, so you were resurrected or somebody was? There was no one "in Christ" at the time until Pentecost. Our part is coming soon.
Of course this Amillennail argument is futile, there is wall between us that will remain until He actually comes and you find yourself hovering in the clouds and meeting him and the rest of us. That will be an enlightening day.

 

[WPM]

The time frame is crystal clear in Rev 20. That event (first resurrection) is after the 1000 years are over.

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

A lot happens before that. The Rapture, the second coming of Jesus to earth, and etc.

That verse is not even related to the Rapture much less some 'proof' that it did not happen before the wrath of God.

Where is the rapture and the second coming of Jesus to earth in Revelation 20? Is the rapture not the coming of Christ?