Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.
- Thread starter Davidpt
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
They will never learn that there is no "dead" eternal life spoken about in the scriptures. Death is the absence of life. Eternal life IN CHRIST is the experience of those who have been born of the Spirit of God:
-- "And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.
-- "In Him (the Word of God) was life, and the life was the light of men" -- John 1:3.
-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son (Jesus, the human) to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26
-- "He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." -- 1 Timothy 6:15-16
-- "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." -- John 15:6.
"Of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof dying you will die." -- Genesis 2:17.
Anything else is believing and preaching the doctrine of the serpent:
"And the serpent said to the woman, 'You shall not surely die.'" -- Genesis 3:4.
.. and preaching that the quickening [zōopoiéō] mentioned in scripture is talking about the quickening of a "dead" human spirit when the word [zōopoiéō] is always only applied to the quickening of the body of the one in whom Christ Spirit dwells, who has been born of the Spirit, is preaching the same doctrine.
Christ's Spirit did not die. His dead body was quickened [zōopoiéō] by the Spirit, the word synegeírō (raised with Christ) is referring to the resurrection of the body, not of the human spirit.
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).
"God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead (the body being dead) in sins,
(1) He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);
(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō)
and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).
But they will preach that there is such a thing as a "dead" eternal life spoken about in the scriptures that gets "quickened" by the Spirit, even though death is the absence of life; and eternal life IN CHRIST (who alone has eternal life in Himself) is the experience of those who have been born of the Spirit of God.
Why do they hold onto preaching what the scriptures do not teach?
Only because if they don't they have to admit that their interpretation of Revelation 20:4-6 is not true.
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God,
and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest [loipoí] of the dead did not live in the body again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." –- Revelation 20:4-6
“Jesus said to her, Your brother shall anístēmi (rise again). Martha said to Him, I know that he shall anístēmi in the anástasis (The Resurrection) at the last day.
Jesus said to her, I am the anástasis (The Resurrection) and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live in the body. [záō]” -- John 11:23-25.
In every verse where the word appears in the New Testament, that word záō (alive | living) is referring either to the living God, or to humans who are alive in the body. The verse is never talking about anyone who has died | fallen asleep | is not alive and living (i.e in the body).
The word is not even always talking about the life of a person who believes in God, and believes the Word of God - at times the word is simply talking about someone who is "alive" in the sense of not having died, for example Romans 7:2:
"For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he be alive [záō]; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband."
Záō in the New Testament is not talking about the spiritual life that comes through being born of the Spirit. It's simply talking about being alive in the body (i.e talking about those who have not died).
Jesus statement to the Sadducees, “God is not the God of the dead but of the living [záō]!" -- Matthew 22:32b was in response to them
challenging Him about the resurrection of the body from the dead (which they did not believe in).
By their reaction to Jesus' reply to them, the Sadducees made it clear that they understood that Jesus had refuted any argument they may have had about the resurrection of the body from the dead by telling them that of necessity what God told Moses about being "the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob" meant that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would rise again from the dead (and hence be seen alive in their bodies) because the ever-living God is not the God of the dead, but of the living [záō].
The Sadducees did not try to argue the point with Him anymore after that.
.. but Amillennialists will ..
Last edited:
This is why Christ tells us we must be born again! Not because we were born physically dead in need of being resurrected. But because we are physically born spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. That's why being born again is NOT being resurrected to physical life again but IS being 'quickened' to spiritual life as mankind had been created. The eternal life we receive through the Spirit in us is spiritual, not physical life.
Being 'quickened' and being 'resurrected' both mean to receive 'life', but one is life of our natural human spirit, and the other is life of our natural mortal body. When our spirit, through the Spirit of Christ has been quickened (made alive) the life we have through Him shall NEVER die!
When Christ died, His spirit did not die but returned to the Father when He breathed His last. Only His human body was dead and buried.
Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Those who say there is no life for those who have been born again of Christ's Spirit make a mockery of the words of Christ. He would not have told us that whoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die, if death of our body means death of our spirit also. Nor would Christ have said this if our spirit lay in a state of 'soul sleep' after our body succumbs to death.
John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Christ was not saying our mortal flesh would never die. He had just resurrected Lazarus' mortal flesh back to physical life again. The Bible is clear. The flesh of Christ was put to death but His spirit being 'quickened' by the Holy Spirit NEVER died and was not in a state of 'soul sleep'. In the same way, the spirit of all who have been 'quickened' by the Spirit before physical death, shall NEVER die and returns to heaven a living soul. Because all spirits belong to God who gave them, but only the spiritual body in Christ shall return to God a living soul.
1 Peter 3:18 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
James 5:19-20 (KJV) Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
You're confusing 'quickened' and 'resurrected' life. It is the natural carnal spirit in mankind that must be 'quickened' to life again. Why? Because mankind is physically born spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. That doesn't mean they have not life at all. Mankind has natural, physical life, like that of Adam. But the spirit in mankind from birth is without spiritual life. That's why our spirit must be born again, or 'quickened' by the Holy Spirit for us to know and enter the Kingdom of God. Without a 'quickened' spirit, no man would have eternal life through Christ. We would all die in unbelief, never overcome the second death, and we would all be subjects of the eternal flames from the lake of fire.
Each of the following verses tell us (1) mankind is born spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, without ability to know God (2) for mankind to be saved they must be 'quickened' (not physically resurrected) together with Christ and this by grace through faith (3) when we have been spiritually made alive (quickened) with Christ all of our sins and trespasses have been forgiven (4) just as the flesh of Christ was dead the Spirit made Him first spiritually alive and three days after His body too was resurrected to immortal life, never to die again. The body of Christ, like all human bodies that die being in Him, must be resurrected immortal & incorruptible through the quickened spiritual body of believers that will return with Christ.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
1 Corinthians 15:36 (KJV) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Colossians 2:13 (KJV) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 Peter 3:18 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Before the quickened spirit of Christ returned to heaven after His body died, He first descended down to those Old Covenant spirits, captives of mortal (physical) death, bringing them good news of great joy, for He, the promised Messiah Savior had come to set these captives of death free. In doing so, Christ emptied the place of the dead from Old, known as the bosom of Abraham. Taking them from bondage to death to heaven with Him.
1 Peter 3:18-19 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
When man has been quickened by the Holy Spirit sent from Christ, the spiritual life we have through Him shall NEVER die. And we also have this promise that our body too shall be physically resurrected to life again, just as the body of Christ has been. Our resurrected body will be immortal and incorruptible, ready to live with Christ throughout eternity on the new earth.
In order that God might prove to fallen mankind that there is life after death the body of Christ was 'resurrected' not 'quickened'. Because the spirit within man is quickened while the man has physical life, not after he/she has physically died. The Bible always speaks of living humans beings made spiritually alive when they are born again of the Spirit. Resurrection is for dead flesh, not man's spirit that is (spiritually speaking) dead in trespasses and sins. Being quickened is to have life internally, while being resurrected is to have life externally or physically.
Christ is very clear when He teaches that when man is born again, it is by receiving spiritual life to man's mortal spirit, making the spirit eternally alive, and that comes from the Holy Spirit within. Christ clearly tells Nicodemus that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. Man is already physically alive and needs only to be born again (quickened; made spiritually alive) of the Spirit to have eternal spiritual life that shall NEVER die, even though our flesh shall. The spirit within Christ being quickened (alive after death) returned to the Father a living soul without physical form. And three days later Christ's physical body was resurrected to life again through His living spirit.
Our discussion centered around the Premillennial belief that there must be two physical resurrections. One at the beginning of one thousand years when Christ returns, and the other at the end of the thousand years. Premillennialism should be abandoned altogether if you cannot explain this one very important point.
If you can, please explain how these martyred saints will not live and reign with Christ until the coming one thousand years of time begins when Christ returns, since they were martyred for their faith having lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
It's the Greek word anothen and it means to be born from the first, not a second time.
Right there the castle you build on top that foundation of sand, is more sand.
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).
The creation account in Genesis is telling us that humans were created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven".
God is Spirit. -- John 4:24.
In the beginning God (Spirit) created. -- Genesis 1:1.
He created something other than Spirit - He created the natural universe and earth, and all that exists in it, including humans. -- Genesis 1:1; Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 2:7:-
Created:
"God created [bara] humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them."
Formed:
"When YHVH God created man, He formed [yatsar] man of the dust of the ground, .."
Breathed (Spirit of God):
".. and breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (nshamah) of life (chay); .. "
"The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice,
but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes;
so is everyone who is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit."
-- John 3:8.
but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes;
so is everyone who is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit."
-- John 3:8.
gennáō: to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring. [Strongs Greek 01080]
Became (hayah:):
".. and man became [hayah] a living (chay) soul (nephesh)."
-- Genesis 1:27; 2:7.
hayah: to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use. [Srong's Hebrew 1961]
The created human who was formed from the dust of the earth became a living (chay) soul (nephesh) when the Spirit of God breathed the breath (Spirit of God) of (everlasting) life into him:
"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh is flesh,
and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit."
-- John 3:6.
and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit."
-- John 3:6.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born from the first (anothen), he cannot see the kingdom of God. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born from the first (anothen)." -- John 3:3 & 7.
There is no "dead" eternal life spoken about in the scriptures. Death is the absence of life. Eternal life IN CHRIST is the experience of those who have been born from the first (anothen) of the Spirit of God:
-- "And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.
It is the body that gets quickened by the Spirit because of Christ's dead body being quickened by the Spirit, and it is the body that will rise from the dead with Christ's resurrection:
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).
"God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead (the body being dead) in sins,
(1) He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);
(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō)
Because
"Christ is risen [egeiro] from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection [anastasis] of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo: made alive]." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-22.
It's talking about the resurrection of the dead human body.
GOD does not separate the human body from the soul in the gospel of salvation the way you do - because that separation only takes place because of death (the death of the body), and death is the enemy of God.
The creation account in Genesis is telling us that humans were created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven".
This is why Jesus said we need to be born spiritually from the first (anothen). When that takes place in an individual, his body will be quickened by the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him.
The above is what scripture consistently and unambiguously and repeatedly teaches, before you twist it to mean something else.
As a result, your human-eology that masquerades as Christian theology prevents you from fully understanding why Christ became a man (the last Adam) and took the sin that causes that death upon Himself, bearing it in His own body, died, was quickened by the Spirit (His body being quickened so that) He rose from the dead bodily.
PS; I see "@rwb"'s account kicks in the moment you post and need someone to agree with you, and this seems to happen without fail - and says the exact same things each time when he posts, almost word for word
.
Last edited:
Stop being obtuse! Nowhere have I said God separates "the human body from the soul/spirit in the gospel of salvation"! In fact, it is only by having both a body + breath of life through spirit that ALL living breathing creatures upon the earth become physical "living souls." The spirit leaves the carnal human body when our body dies and the flesh of everything that was breathing becomes a corpse. When the spirit departs man's flesh to return to God who gave it, a man will continue to be living soul only if they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,967
- 3,750
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Your claims are "False"
Matthew 25:31-46 is nothing more than a "Parable" of the GWT judgement spoken to herdsmen, you neglect to read and quote Matthew 25:46 "Why", because it disproves your "false claims" made
(The Final GWT Judgement)
1.) Everlasting Punishment
2.) Life Eternal
Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I have already refuted your twisting of the Greek word anōthen. I will repeat it again.It's the Greek word anothen and it means to be born from the first, not a second time.
Right there the castle you build on top that foundation of sand, is more sand.
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).
The creation account in Genesis is telling us that humans were created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven".
God is Spirit. -- John 4:24.
In the beginning God (Spirit) created. -- Genesis 1:1.
He created something other than Spirit - He created the natural universe and earth, and all that exists in it, including humans. -- Genesis 1:1; Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 2:7:-
Created:
"God created [bara] humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them."
Formed:
"When YHVH God created man, He formed [yatsar] man of the dust of the ground, .."
Breathed (Spirit of God):
".. and breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (nshamah) of life (chay); .. "
"The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice,
but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes;
so is everyone who is born [γεννάω gennáō] of the Spirit."
-- John 3:8.
gennáō: to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring. [Strongs Greek 01080]
Became (hayah:):
".. and man became [hayah] a living (chay) soul (nephesh)."
-- Genesis 1:27; 2:7.
hayah: to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use. [Srong's Hebrew 1961]
The created human who was formed from the dust of the earth became a living (chay) soul (nephesh) when the Spirit of God breathed the breath (Spirit of God) of (everlasting) life into him:
"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh is flesh,
and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit."
-- John 3:6.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born from the first (anothen), he cannot see the kingdom of God. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born from the first (anothen)." -- John 3:3 & 7.
There is no "dead" eternal life spoken about in the scriptures. Death is the absence of life. Eternal life IN CHRIST is the experience of those who have been born from the first (anothen) of the Spirit of God:
-- "And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.
It is the body that gets quickened by the Spirit because of Christ's dead body being quickened by the Spirit, and it is the body that will rise from the dead with Christ's resurrection:
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:10-11).
"God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead (the body being dead) in sins,
(1) He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);
(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō)
Because
"Christ is risen [egeiro] from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection [anastasis] of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo: made alive]." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-22.
It's talking about the resurrection of the dead human body.
GOD does not separate the human body from the soul in the gospel of salvation the way you do - because that separation only takes place because of death (the death of the body), and death is the enemy of God.
The creation account in Genesis is telling us that humans were created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven".
This is why Jesus said we need to be born spiritually from the first (anothen). When that takes place in an individual, his body will be quickened by the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him.
The above is what scripture consistently and unambiguously and repeatedly teaches, before you twist it to mean something else.
As a result, your human-eology that masquerades as Christian theology prevents you from fully understanding why Christ became a man (the last Adam) and took the sin that causes that death upon Himself, bearing it in His own body, died, was quickened by the Spirit (His body being quickened so that) He rose from the dead bodily.
PS; I see "@rwb"'s account kicks in the moment you post and need someone to agree with you, and this seems to happen without fail - and says the exact same things each time when he posts, almost word for word
Jesus said in John 3:3: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [Gr. anōthen], he cannot see the kingdom of God."
But the word “again” (in “born again”) is taken from the Greek word anōthen; meaning "from above."
When we get saved, when we are raised from the grave of our sin, we are birthed from above.
Interestingly, in the same chapter in verse 31, John the Baptist testified of Jesus, "He that cometh from above [Gr. anōthen] is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."
Christ was a heavenly man who became an earthly man so that we earthly men could become heavenly men. He was from above. When Christ came to this earth mankind encountered heaven face-to-face. God had stepped out of eternity into time.
When we come to Christ, the world loses its charm. It is not our home. Heaven is! A Christian is no longer earth-bound or worldly, they are heavenly!
Ephesians 2:4-6 says, “God … hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
Ephesians 1:3 also corroborates, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”
How are we seated in heavenly places?
Because He is! Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head!
- He lived on our behalf.
- He died on our behalf.
- He rose from the dead on our behalf.
- He reigns in heaven tonight on our behalf.
Jesus is described as “the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die” (John 6:50).
Jesus testified Himself in John 8:23: "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
When we partake of Him we partake of the heavenly realm. It is this that gives us our citizenship is in heaven. It is this the causes us to lay up our treasure in heaven. We are no longer earthlings, but heavenly creatures.
Philippians 3:20 tells us that “our citizenship is [now] in heaven.”
Heaven is a different world. It is governed by different rules. It is different priorities. Its focus is the glory of God. Righteousness is everything. Justice prevails. Order is its environment. Peace, joy and rest are what results.
Hebrews 12:22 says (in the present tense), “ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.”
For Christians, our positional status should more and more become our experiential status, the more we grow in Christ.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,967
- 3,750
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?
1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?
The Above Claims (Don't Exist)
Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ
100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Lol. do not likewise need to repeat my previous post # 112 again, because. Jesus is the Teacher (not you), and you are twisting the meaning of His Teaching by twisting the meaning of the Greek word anothen, and you cannot refute His Teaching.
When a human is conceived, what takes place is not a (dead) human life being re-conceived or re-born or resurrected or quickened from death. It is conceived from the first (anothen).
When a human is born, what takes place is not a (dead) human life being re-born or resurrected or quickened. It is born from the first (anothen).
"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born from the first (anothen), he cannot see the kingdom of God. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born from the first (anothen)." -- John 3:3 & 6-7.
And you do not need to repeat your twisting of His Teaching, because your teaching remains your own, and this is why you cannot ever grow any further in your understanding of the Word of God. Because the faith you place in your own human-eology that masquerades as Christian theology has you stuck where you are (ears stopped up).
Last edited:
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Incorrect. That judgment is for the survivors of the tribulation and either sent to the place of torments or entrance into the Millennial earth.
Is He supreme ruler in heaven?
I agree, but that does not mean He has begun His rule yet. He does not reign in heaven, for the Father is above Jesus in heaven. He is ruler of earth, but has not begun His rule. Evil is still being given its play on earth still
Your reading skills lack.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection is as written- Jesus will not be His own priest for 1000 years
I do take John 5 seriously and literally.
John 5:28-29
King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
hour is hora and means hour, time or season. full context determines which.
John simply gives facts about events to happen. It does not say when where how or if there is an order. Revelation 20 gives the order. Rev. 20 does not contrtadictr John 5 in any way.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Again, I believe that is only referring to the devil being tormented and the mention of the beast and false prophet also being there is a parenthetical statement. Why can't you acknowledge that prophetic beasts are kingdoms and not human beings?
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Yeah, so what? I don't know why you mentioned that.
LOL. You'd rather talk about this than acknowledge the fact that scripture indicates that prophetic beasts are kingdoms. You are very selective in how you interpret scripture. They are not real beasts, they are symbolic beasts. So, symbolic beasts cannot be literally alive. You are missing the symbolism. If it referred to the harlot (Babylon) being cast alive into the lake of fire you would insist that it's a literal woman.
LOL. Yes, and Daniel 7:23 indicates that prophetic beasts are kingdoms. You have chosen to ignore that in favor of making scripture say what you want it to say.
Premils like yourself like to cherry pick scripture and not accept when it indicates that prophetic beasts are kingdoms.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Where is that indicated?
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
How can these mortal "survivors of the tribulation" inherit the kingdom of God when Paul made it clear that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?
Of course! He said He has ALL power in heaven and on earth. You don't accept what He said and what Paul said about Him in Ephesians 1:19-22. You'd rather make scripture say what you want it to say.
You do not accept what He said, which is shameful. He said He has ALL power in heaven and on earth. You say He doesn't. I'm siding with Jesus.
LOL! Says the guy who can't understand and accept something as simple as Jesus saying that He was given ALL power and authority in heaven and on earth.
John wrote that Christ IS "the prince of the kings of the earth" and that His followers have been MADE priests of God and of Christ (Revelation 1:5-6). You don't take that into account when reading Revelation 20.
No, you absolutely do not.
Nonsense! You are making that passage say what you want it to say. Jesus was clearly saying that there is one resurrection event during which all of the dead will be raised. Your doctrine says there will be at least 2 resurrection events when the dead are raised, thereby blatantly contradicting what Jesus taught.
Similar threads
