Everyone will receive a Mark, whose mark is the question.

[tailgator]

That's what you said before, and it's a copy/ paste from the Antichrist's (Catholic Jesuitism) "Go Destroy Protestantism" play book.

The beast is having a discussion with the king of the north this afternoon about the future of Babylon.The Medes will be discussed as well as the security of Babylon.

You should be paying attention and sober.Your not doing a good job at that.

 

[ewq1938]

Associated with Babylon is the description of the great falling away which directly resulted in the revelation of the Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Those that join with or become part of Babylon may have once been Christians but they FELL AWAY and thus are not Christians.

Babylon also does not exist until the AC does, because she symbolizes all those who worship him as a god. He is not here yet, so neither is she.

 

[CTK]

Those that join with or become part of Babylon may have once been Christians but they FELL AWAY and thus are not Christians.

Babylon also does not exist until the AC does, because she symbolizes all those who worship him as a god. He is not here yet, so neither is she.

That would be true if the little horn who sits atop the 4 th beast wasn’t in reign for the past 1500 years.

Gods church had been corrupted and appropriated by the little horn after the demise of pagan Rome (Daniel 7:11). And one can see the kinds of things he would do when he came to power- found in both chapters 7 and 8. Even if he did ONLY one of the many things against God, His people and His saints it would certainly be enough to identify him as the papacy. That one thing alone is that he claims divinity, and equality with God Himself.

 

[ewq1938]

That would be true if the little horn who sits atop the 4 th beast wasn’t in reign for the past 1500 years.

Gods church had been corrupted and appropriated by the little horn after the demise of pagan Rome (Daniel 7:11). And one can see the kinds of things he would do when he came to power- found in both chapters 7 and 8. Even if he did ONLY one of the many things against God, His people and His saints it would certainly be enough to identify him as the papacy. That one thing alone is that he claims divinity, and equality with God Himself.

Neither the 4th beast or the little horn is the RCC or Papacy. They are types of what shall come but they are not the fulfillment. Something far worse, far bigger will come.

 

[CTK]

Neither the 4th beast or the little horn is the RCC or Papacy. They are types of what shall come but they are not the fulfillment. Something far worse, far bigger will come.

I don’t think so!

 

[Douggg]

I don’t think so!

The Vatican [the woman turned whore] will be destroyed by the ten kings of Revelation 17:16. Those ten kings will be leaders in the kingdom of the beast, under the dictatorship of the beast king, Revelation 17:17.

So, the papacy is not the beast-king [generically and commonly called the Antichrist].

16 And the ten horns [the ten kings] which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom [the EU] unto the beast [to be dictator of the EU], until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reformers and then later EGW, the Seventh Day Adventist, incorrectly identified the pope/papacy as the little horn and the Antichrist.

The person is going to be a Jew, who's religion, superficially, will be Judaism. To become the Antichrist, he must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

 

[ewq1938]

I don’t think so!

That's exactly what they want a Christian to say...

 

[Brakelite]

I marvel at the determined reluctance of so many to accept the historical evidence of prophetic fulfillment regarding the little horn, the man of sin who sits in the church claiming to owning prerogatives that belong only to God, the sea beast of Revelation 13 and Babylon the Great, all different stages and/or perspectives of the one power, and all showing at least 10 or more specific characteristics that only the papacy can fulfil.
And in doing so prefer to adopt an unknown and unknowable future individual who couldn't possibly fulfil all the criteria. And the whole idea of this future individual created by the very papacy itself in order to obscure and turn away the biblical condemnation that so accurately condemns her.
And even after being told this, they determine to find reasons to support the very institution that seeks their demise.
Astonishing.

 

[CTK]

That's exactly what they want a Christian to say...

He is fully revealed in chapter 7 and discussed again in chapter 8 and then in 11. Almost everyone claims the book of Daniel is an end time set of prophecies- it is not. That title belongs to Revelation. Daniel speaks about the restoration of His people from Babylon to (largely) the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy (490 years from 457 BC). Meaning, it is meant to prophesies about the coming Messiah. And I am sure you may agree that pagan Rome was in power both before and after the cross.

Chapter 7 is discussing this time frame. If you would like to discuss chapter 7 through its verses that might be useful….

I certainly understand that some 95% of folks have accepted the “7 year tribulation theory that brings along a mythical anti-Christ figure and goes against the Jewish people at the end times, but this was an deliberate and gross misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27… again, something only the little horn would do - no other person / organization has / had a need to create such an evil interpretation that takes away those unbelievable (and horrible) verses in Daniel 9:26 -27 that BELONG the Jesus. And because of this, the verses in chapters 7 and 8 would require them to also be thrown far into the future because they speak of the one (little horn) who comes after Jesus establishes His church at the cross, and then the little horn comes to power and appropriates His church and then claims divinity, forgives sin, etc. Who does this but the papacy? Can anyone ever exceed the anti- Christ like things more than the papacy and papal Rome?

So, if you want to discuss chapter 7 with an open mind - great. It does not mean you have to accept my interpretations at all!

I can assure you the little horn is indeed the papacy through Daniel.

 

[covenantee]

The Vatican [the woman turned whore] will be destroyed by the ten kings of Revelation 17:16. Those ten kings will be leaders in the kingdom of the beast, under the dictatorship of the beast king, Revelation 17:17.

So, the papacy is not the beast-king [generically and commonly called the Antichrist].

16 And the ten horns [the ten kings] which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom [the EU] unto the beast [to be dictator of the EU], until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Reformers and then later EGW, the Seventh Day Adventist, incorrectly identified the pope/papacy as the little horn and the Antichrist.

The person is going to be a Jew, who's religion, superficially, will be Judaism. To become the Antichrist, he must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

What to believe?

1. Futurized fantasies and fallacies
or
2. The Reformation, whose Reformers responded to God's call to confront and defeat the papal antichrist, and in which by God's grace and mercy they prevailed

Who needs a hint?

 

[tailgator]

The beast is having a discussion with the king of the north this afternoon about the future of Babylon.The Medes will be discussed as well as the security of Babylon.

You should be paying attention and sober.Your not doing a good job at that.

Today the beast is meeting with leaders of the armed forces.Perhaps he will meet with the two witnesses as well.

 

[ewq1938]

And because of this, the verses in chapters 7 and 8 would require them to also be thrown far into the future because they speak of the one (little horn) who comes after Jesus establishes His church at the cross, and then the little horn comes to power and appropriates His church and then claims divinity, forgives sin, etc.

The main issue here is that Daniel never said the little horn claims divinity or forgives sin. YOU have used eisegesis to force those things into the text so you can make the little horn into something Daniel did not describe.

Who does this but the papacy? Can anyone ever exceed the anti- Christ like things more than the papacy and papal Rome?

The final Ac will be far greater, more evil, more powerful than anything related to the Papacy but for you, the Papacy is the highest version and cannot be surpassed.

So, if you want to discuss chapter 7 with an open mind - great. It does not mean you have to accept my interpretations at all!

Same to you. If you want to discuss chapter 7 with an open mind - great. It does not mean you have to accept my interpretations at all! At least admit it when I point out the errors you make like I did above.

I can assure you the little horn is indeed the papacy through Daniel.

I can also assure you the little horn is not the Papacy.

 

[ewq1938]

Almost everyone claims the book of Daniel is an end time set of prophecies- it is not.

This is also wrong. Clearly Daniel wrote of a coming of God and a judgment and his people possessing an eternal kingdom at that time. Clearly that was meant to represent an end time.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[CTK]

This is also wrong. Clearly Daniel wrote of a coming of God and a judgment and his people possessing an eternal kingdom at that time. Clearly that was meant to represent an end time.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Ok, here are the first 6 verses in chapter 7. Would you mind interpreting them? Who do these represent?

And after you respond, I would ask that you copy verses 7 and 8 and tell me who are the actors within these verses. Thanks.


1In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel [a]had a dream and visions of his head while on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, telling https://biblehub.com/nkjv/daniel/7.htm#footnotesthe main facts.

2Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

 

[ewq1938]

Ok, here are the first 6 verses in chapter 7.

So let's ignore everything I posted and skip to something else instead? No.

You claimed Daniel did not write of the end times, and I posted scripture from Daniel that proves he did write of the end times. After we discuss that, we can move to whatever new thing you want to discuss.

 

[CTK]

So let's ignore everything I posted and skip to something else instead? No.

You claimed Daniel did not write of the end times, and I posted scripture from Daniel that proves he did write of the end times. After we discuss that, we can move to whatever new thing you want to discuss.

of course there are verses that speak of the end times in Daniel but compared to the whole of Daniel it might speak to approximately 3 percent of the total chapter. There are indeed verses that mention the end time - but not in details... that is left for Revelation.

God is giving us His plan of salvation from Babylon to the end of time and that demands He mentions the victory at the end of time but He is leaving all the details for Revelation.

 

[ewq1938]

of course there are verses that speak of the end times in Daniel but compared to the whole of Daniel it might speak to approximately 3 percent of the total chapter. There are indeed verses that mention the end time - but not in details... that is left for Revelation.

There's a lot of details about the end in Daniel.

 

[ewq1938]

Ok, here are the first 6 verses in chapter 7. Would you mind interpreting them? Who do these represent?

I don't know. What I do know is that Daniel says the 3 first beasts live on past the destruction of the 4th beast by the coming of God and a judgment. What that eliminates is any idea that the 4th beast is Rome because no former three kingdoms existed past it's defeat, and Rome was no defeated by a coming of God and judgment.

And after you respond, I would ask that you copy verses 7 and 8 and tell me who are the actors within these verses. Thanks.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


This seems to be the OT version of the evil endtimes global kingdom with the person usually called the AC but has a different name here. John saw something similar in Rev, but with some stark differences. I would say Rev has the most updated version of these things and events.

 

[Douggg]

of course there are verses that speak of the end times in Daniel but compared to the whole of Daniel it might speak to approximately 3 percent of the total chapter. There are indeed verses that mention the end time - but not in details... that is left for Revelation.

On this chart I made about the 5 stages of the little horn person, I listed the passages in Daniel that deal with the time of the end.

 

[covenantee]

On this chart I made about the 5 stages of the little horn person, I listed the passages in Daniel that deal with the time of the end.

View attachment 58176

Your Stage 2 prince that shall come, came 2,000 years ago.

He is not the little horn or the Antichrist or the man of sin or the beast king.

Daniel identifies Him in Daniel 9:25.

He is the Messiah the Prince.

AKA the Christ.